What if......

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

What if this same question was posed on Redmen.com?

Oh wait.  It already was

Quote from: we are sju on October 27, 2010, 09:22:43 AM

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

What if this same question was posed on Redmen.com?

Oh wait.  It already was

Moose, not everyone here posts over there. In fact unless they all have different screen names , only a few do. Was just trying to see if anyone here wanted to weigh in.

Quote from: Moose on October 27, 2010, 12:58:38 PM

Quote from: we are sju on October 27, 2010, 09:22:43 AM

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

What if this same question was posed on Redmen.com?

Oh wait.  It already was

Moose, not everyone here posts over there. In fact unless they all have different screen names , only a few do. Was just trying to see if anyone here wanted to weigh in.

You see the I put in the post.  It means take it jokingly.  But I do laugh when someone starts the same thread in both places.  People might not post in both places but everyone reads both for the most part.

I just love how Norm is still a hot topic.

I just need to buy redmen.com but yea I try and avoid double postings. There are a few guys who love to hear themselves talk....twice. Kidding!

Anyways to answer the question its so hard to look back and say "what if.." I think there was only less than a handful of coaches who could have seen immediate success. Now I think a fairer question would have been what if Norm Roberts was let go after 4 years as opposed to 6 where could this program be. (I admit I wanted to give every benefit of the doubt when possible)

If Jarvis had left for Washington, we'd have likely hired Jay Wright and made more than one final four.

I just need to buy redmen.com but yea I try and avoid double postings. There are a few guys who love to hear themselves talk....twice. Kidding!

Anyways to answer the question its so hard to look back and say "what if.." I think there was only less than a handful of coaches who could have seen immediate success. Now I think a fairer question would have been what if Norm Roberts was let go after 4 years as opposed to 6 where could this program be. (I admit I wanted to give every benefit of the doubt when possible)

Honestly the only reason I did it in this instance, is now that BEB is extinct I consider this to be my main posting site. I thought the topic was interesting so I thought I would broach it here since to my knowledge a majority of jj posters do not post over there. Guess the topic wasn't that interesting judging by lack of responses.
 My take was even a staunch Norm hater as myself was starting buying into the rhetoric that SJU could no longer be a major player in basketball, at least recruiting wise. How many people even brought up us leaving the BE. Based on what Lavin has accomplished so far just got me wondering where we would be now if we started the rebuilding sooner.
 

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

That's not even worth discussing. Lavin is the first good hire STJ has made since Looie retired with only Fran being mediocre but the way his experiment ended made the school and job look like poo. This program has suffered more exponentially by each of the hires made after Looie, Mahoney, and Fran. The hire of Norm was a step forward in that it wasn't a further step backwards. A Lavin like hire would have been welcome at any point but wasn't going to happen for any of the earlier hires either due to the approach of the administration or the state of the program and the perceived status of the job or both. I'm actually amazed it occurred at all.   ; )

Quote from: we are sju on October 27, 2010, 09:22:43 AM

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

That's not even worth discussing. Lavin is the first good hire STJ has made since Looie retired with only Fran being mediocre but the way his experiment ended made the school and job look like poo. This program has suffered more exponentially by each of the hires made after Looie, Mahoney, and Fran. The hire of Norm was a step forward in that it wasn't a further step backwards. A Lavin like hire would have been welcome at any point but wasn't going to happen for any of the earlier hires either due to the approach of the administration or the state of the program and the perceived status of the job or both. I'm actually amazed it occurred at all.   ; )

An interesting take on this would be what would have happened if someone such as McKillop had gotten the job. For sure we would have remained clean off the court while having mor success on the court. With that being said, would you have traded a couple of tourney appearances and multiple NIT appearances for a shot at much more? If a better coach had succeeded Norm, most likely we would not have been looking for a coach this season and Lavin and his recruits would never be.

Quote from: yankcranker on October 27, 2010, 02:32:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on October 27, 2010, 09:22:43 AM

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

That's not even worth discussing. Lavin is the first good hire STJ has made since Looie retired with only Fran being mediocre but the way his experiment ended made the school and job look like poo. This program has suffered more exponentially by each of the hires made after Looie, Mahoney, and Fran. The hire of Norm was a step forward in that it wasn't a further step backwards. A Lavin like hire would have been welcome at any point but wasn't going to happen for any of the earlier hires either due to the approach of the administration or the state of the program and the perceived status of the job or both. I'm actually amazed it occurred at all.   ; )

An interesting take on this would be what would have happened if someone such as McKillop had gotten the job. For sure we would have remained clean off the court while having mor success on the court. With that being said, would you have traded a couple of tourney appearances and multiple NIT appearances for a shot at much more? If a better coach had succeeded Norm, most likely we would not have been looking for a coach this season and Lavin and his recruits would never be.

This is certainly a case where the admin made a bad mistake and got lucky.  If a McKillop/Pecora had come in, either when Norm was hired or after 4 years of Norm, and brought the team to a regular 7-10 finish in the BE and NIT most years with the odd NCAA appearance they would still be here and I don't believe either would have been able to get the program to where it appears it will be in 2012/13.

Quote from: yankcranker on October 27, 2010, 02:32:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on October 27, 2010, 09:22:43 AM

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

That's not even worth discussing. Lavin is the first good hire STJ has made since Looie retired with only Fran being mediocre but the way his experiment ended made the school and job look like poo. This program has suffered more exponentially by each of the hires made after Looie, Mahoney, and Fran. The hire of Norm was a step forward in that it wasn't a further step backwards. A Lavin like hire would have been welcome at any point but wasn't going to happen for any of the earlier hires either due to the approach of the administration or the state of the program and the perceived status of the job or both. I'm actually amazed it occurred at all.   ; )

An interesting take on this would be what would have happened if someone such as McKillop had gotten the job. For sure we would have remained clean off the court while having mor success on the court. With that being said, would you have traded a couple of tourney appearances and multiple NIT appearances for a shot at much more? If a better coach had succeeded Norm, most likely we would not have been looking for a coach this season and Lavin and his recruits would never be.

I think thats interesting. I think he could have recruited similarly but would have been better coached. Who knows though because I thought john beilein was going to be a monster after he left WVU for Michigan but he's been mediocre so you never know.

Regardless I'm happy Lavin is here and dear God I hope him and his staff can coach games well.

Honestly the only reason I did it in this instance, is now that BEB is extinct I consider this to be my main posting site.

Made my day!

Quote from: we are sju on October 27, 2010, 02:39:48 PM

Quote from: yankcranker on October 27, 2010, 02:32:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on October 27, 2010, 09:22:43 AM

Lavin or someone similar had taken over for Jarvis? Where do you think the program would be at this point? For the record this is really not meant as a Norm bash! Just something that started on the other site that I think is an interesting question and can help pass the time until the season starts.

That's not even worth discussing. Lavin is the first good hire STJ has made since Looie retired with only Fran being mediocre but the way his experiment ended made the school and job look like poo. This program has suffered more exponentially by each of the hires made after Looie, Mahoney, and Fran. The hire of Norm was a step forward in that it wasn't a further step backwards. A Lavin like hire would have been welcome at any point but wasn't going to happen for any of the earlier hires either due to the approach of the administration or the state of the program and the perceived status of the job or both. I'm actually amazed it occurred at all.   ; )

An interesting take on this would be what would have happened if someone such as McKillop had gotten the job. For sure we would have remained clean off the court while having mor success on the court. With that being said, would you have traded a couple of tourney appearances and multiple NIT appearances for a shot at much more? If a better coach had succeeded Norm, most likely we would not have been looking for a coach this season and Lavin and his recruits would never be.

This is certainly a case where the admin made a bad mistake and got lucky.  If a McKillop/Pecora had come in, either when Norm was hired or after 4 years of Norm, and brought the team to a regular 7-10 finish in the BE and NIT most years with the odd NCAA appearance they would still be here and I don't believe either would have been able to get the program to where it appears it will be in 2012/13.

I agree, however back when Geno was pounding the ball for 30 seconds and we were struggling to crack 50 I think I would have signed on for 4 more wins and a better style of ball. It seems to have worked out for the best, but those are 6 years none of us could get back.

I think if we got Cal we'd have a few Final Fours at minimum.

I don't even want to look back because the fact is if Jarvis did leave we almost certainly end up with Wright and we might even have a title.  We really struggled during that period, but is a distant memory.

Lavin is KILLING IT on the recruiting trail now and it makes it almost worth it....almost.  I love how handles the recruiting and running of the program and PR but delegates the other stuff.  Not may people can do that.  He has two of the best basketball minds in the country so why not use them ?

Cal would have been one of those coaches and his daughter would have came to school here (she's hot).

IF we had cal...which was a distinct possibility...we would have been a top national program...then cal would have left for kentucky.

the next coach (who'd be the current coach) would be high profile and might have been lavin.

had we fired norm after years three or four, we'd have had a mckillop type who'd replicate looie's years.

my feeling is it all worked out because i believe lavin will replicate frank mcguire's years...here and at north and south carolina. 

I think if we got Cal we'd have a few Final Fours at minimum.

as awesome as a final four would have been, i still wouldnt want calipari. all his postseasons end up being vacated due to ineligible players. he's a cheater.