The issues right now with the team

First of all Happy Thanksgiving to all.  Forgive me, i got home a little late, taped the game and need to get this off my chest. 

From watching this group of players the last few years it's become apparent that the plaeyrs who compete for time have strengths where their competitors have weaknesses (sry bear with me).

For example, Hardy is a better offensive player than Horne.  Last year he played abt 400 less minutes and scored the same amt of points (i would guess the pps would be in the same ballpark)  But it's obvious Horne is a better defensive player.   Same thing in the frontcourt.  Evans, lacks offensive talent, but he is our best post defender in man to man and our best rebounder in the front court and for a team that lacks offensive talent he was a guy who could be counted on to get an  offensive board and easy bucket.  Burrell and Brownlee are clearly better offensive players but lack the strenghts Evans has. 

Look at Polee.  Lavin has abt a month to figure out what he wants to do.  First two games he decides to play the matchup zone with Polee at PF.  Perfectly fine.  He is a skilled offensive player and can really rotate in the zone.  He is a strength on both ends.  Evans and Coker do not provide the same value on both ends (although they would help on the boards)  in the zone and that's why they didnt play the first two games.

However, if we decide to play man to man like we did tonight.  Polee is clearly ineffective at PF.  i didnt even have to see it.  Lavin sees it in practice.   Why else would he play 10 mins including OT (why he started ahead of DJ in OT ill never know).  Then you need guys who can body up and defend the post.  When BE play comes if Polee is out on the court, we arent going to play man to man b/c we will get eaten alive. 

My question is what should we do.  Should we try to just play matchups.  For example, we are playing a guy like Polee for 30 mins this game b/c the team we are playing cant shoot and cant deal with pressure.  Then in the next game we play him 10 mins b/c he cant matchup man to man on a team that can make an open J and deal with pressure?  If we are going to play matchups where we are constantly changing the style and the chemistry on the court the i think we got a glimps tonight what that will look like.  Right now it's dysfuntional.

The other question is should we jsut play our game and have other teams adapt to us? 

Bottom Line, Lavin needs to figure out the rotation. It's pretty clear from the first three games it's not close to being set.  Just look at the boxscore and minutes played.  No way DJ should play 25 mins, especially the way he played.  He has icewater, and along with Brownlee got us to overtime.  Then he doesnt even start overtime.  Can someone explain that?

Sorry for looking at the negative, but that's all i can think abt after blowing a 12 pt halftime lead to struggling to get the game to OT.

Individually, we are def better, just got to put it together on the court and i think well do that eventually.

Evans is not our best post defender. In fact he isn't even our 2nd best. Coker is our best post defender (4 altered shots tonight). Burrell is 2nd best interior defender.

Evans is probably our best rebounder especially on the offensive end. This is the best thing he brings to the table but clearly has issues with playing this limited role. I hope for his and team's sake he gets over it.

As for Polee he can play inside and he didn't play tonight due to early foul trouble. Burrell and Brownlee were the better options tonight. This will happen from time to time.

DJ resting to start the OT was puzzling but maybe he need some rest? idk? Polee made a nice defensive play to start the OT period off though.

As for the team on a whole big picture...

They need to work on their half court offensive sets. Too often St. John's get laxed, don't cut hard or even at all. They settle for far too many outside shots with little time remaining on the shot clock...old habits die hard.

Dave, I'll give you Coker.  Ive seen Burrell get worked down low and think evans is better, but i think that is subjective (you might think otherwise).  Bottom line is we have to figure out how we want to play.  THe best defensive man to man lineup is a lot diff than the best zone defensive lineup and from tonight it looks like it hurts the chemistry.


And Dave i wasnt following the foul situation with Polee as close as i should have.  With 4 fouls that was hopefully the primary reason he played 10 mins. 

regardless, i'd still like to see a better rotation, mainly b/c i think DJ needs the most mins b/c he is our best player and the reason we won this game.

There are some serious defensive problems with this squad.  In the second half, Ball State - a team that hasn't been able to score this year - got the shots they wanted on possession after possession.Granted, it was the mid-range jumper, but we'd probably like to see those made under duress.

As for the post defense, Burrell sometimes looks like he's dancing and that's not good; but the Cardinals figured out Coker in the second half.  Did you watch the minute of the second half where Dele (Deal-Lee, as the announcers pronounced his name) was in?  Two made baskets by Ball State, both assisted, both at the rim; I don't know what he needs to do differently. It might just be recognizing and getting in front of the attacking player more quickly.

But look at how Ball State shot this year (or even last year) and how smooth they looked.  That was surprising. I'd like to see the Johnnies defensively dominate someone.  Anyone. The team can't make guards look like superstars.

I'll be talking about that guard factor and Drake's guard Rayvonte Rice in my pregame articles [PLUG ALERT].

As for the team on a whole big picture...

They need to work on their half court offensive sets. Too often St. John's get laxed, don't cut hard or even at all. They settle for far too many outside shots with little time remaining on the shot clock...old habits die hard.

The lack of energy in the half court offense was alarming...these seniors want to play in the NCAA tourney and that's the effort they give?  Disappointing for sure.  Thank God DJ and Brownlee stepped up at the end.  Why is DJ so passive? 

 You folks are awful reactionary considering we've played 3 games.   We have a completely new program, new coaches, new philosophy.  Combine that with a team full of seniors that have known only one thing....losing.  Give this team some time.


  Happy Thanksgiving.

You folks are awful reactionary considering we've played 3 games.   We have a completely new program, new coaches, new philosophy.  Combine that with a team full of seniors that have known only one thing....losing.  Give this team some time.


  Happy Thanksgiving.

1 thing this particular team doesnt have, is time. They need to get it straightened asap

You folks are awful reactionary considering we've played 3 games.   We have a completely new program, new coaches, new philosophy.  Combine that with a team full of seniors that have known only one thing....losing.  Give this team some time.


  Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure its being negative just being realistic to what is going on at the moment. The team isn't playing particularly well and I'm not sure I see any way around that. This board has always been insightful and fair in compliments/criticisms.

I can see this team playing a lot better than they've shown so far but I can also see this team going through the season playing very similar which is frustrating.

the team bends, but doesnt break against inferior opponents, when we needed to score amazingly someone did.  so were safe for another 8 games!

Quote from: boo3 on November 25, 2010, 01:36:05 PM

You folks are awful reactionary considering we've played 3 games.   We have a completely new program, new coaches, new philosophy.  Combine that with a team full of seniors that have known only one thing....losing.  Give this team some time.


  Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure its being negative just being realistic to what is going on at the moment. The team isn't playing particularly well and I'm not sure I see any way around that. This board has always been insightful and fair in compliments/criticisms.

I can see this team playing a lot better than they've shown so far but I can also see this team going through the season playing very similar which is frustrating.

  I'm basically getting my info from this board as i haven't watched either of the games that started after my bedtime.   That being said, this group of players has frustrated us for the last 3 + seasons.  For anyone to think that all of a sudden they were going to be world beaters after three games with a new coaching staff is simply unrealistic.  I've felt that this year we will be a borderline tournament team ( NCAA).  I don't think that after 3 games, a 2-1 record, and the team traveling 10k miles to play these games changes any of that.

  I didn't say people were being overly negative here, just that people were getting a little to reactionary after a couple of early season tourney games.  No big deal.  Let's let the staff work it out. This is the foirst time they have dealt with these guys in game situations.

 Baldi,  what do you mean they don't have time?  Its 3 games.  We won 2.  Its not like we started out 0-3 like Iona.

Quote from: Dave on November 25, 2010, 05:07:34 PM

Quote from: boo3 on November 25, 2010, 01:36:05 PM

You folks are awful reactionary considering we've played 3 games.   We have a completely new program, new coaches, new philosophy.  Combine that with a team full of seniors that have known only one thing....losing.  Give this team some time.


  Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure its being negative just being realistic to what is going on at the moment. The team isn't playing particularly well and I'm not sure I see any way around that. This board has always been insightful and fair in compliments/criticisms.

I can see this team playing a lot better than they've shown so far but I can also see this team going through the season playing very similar which is frustrating.

  I'm basically getting my info from this board as i haven't watched either of the games that started after my bedtime.   That being said, this group of players has frustrated us for the last 3 + seasons.  For anyone to think that all of a sudden they were going to be world beaters after three games with a new coaching staff is simply unrealistic.  I've felt that this year we will be a borderline tournament team ( NCAA).  I don't think that after 3 games, a 2-1 record, and the team traveling 10k miles to play these games changes any of that.

  I didn't say people were being overly negative here, just that people were getting a little to reactionary after a couple of early season tourney games.  No big deal.  Let's let the staff work it out. This is the foirst time they have dealt with these guys in game situations.

 Baldi,  what do you mean they don't have time?  Its 3 games.  We won 2.  Its not like we started out 0-3 like Iona.

I meant, for most of the players on the team this is thier last go around.

Iona beat a top 40 team

Quote from: boo3 on November 25, 2010, 08:26:50 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 25, 2010, 05:07:34 PM

Quote from: boo3 on November 25, 2010, 01:36:05 PM

You folks are awful reactionary considering we've played 3 games.   We have a completely new program, new coaches, new philosophy.  Combine that with a team full of seniors that have known only one thing....losing.  Give this team some time.


  Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure its being negative just being realistic to what is going on at the moment. The team isn't playing particularly well and I'm not sure I see any way around that. This board has always been insightful and fair in compliments/criticisms.

I can see this team playing a lot better than they've shown so far but I can also see this team going through the season playing very similar which is frustrating.

  I'm basically getting my info from this board as i haven't watched either of the games that started after my bedtime.   That being said, this group of players has frustrated us for the last 3 + seasons.  For anyone to think that all of a sudden they were going to be world beaters after three games with a new coaching staff is simply unrealistic.  I've felt that this year we will be a borderline tournament team ( NCAA).  I don't think that after 3 games, a 2-1 record, and the team traveling 10k miles to play these games changes any of that.

  I didn't say people were being overly negative here, just that people were getting a little to reactionary after a couple of early season tourney games.  No big deal.  Let's let the staff work it out. This is the foirst time they have dealt with these guys in game situations.

 Baldi,  what do you mean they don't have time?  Its 3 games.  We won 2.  Its not like we started out 0-3 like Iona.

I meant, for most of the players on the team this is thier last go around.

Iona beat a top 40 team

Even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days.

Remember Bryant?

Bryant isn't that bad. They've been to a couple of final 4's in last few years when they were D2. However they smoked Iona who got off to an 0-3 start and took 2 OT's to beat Richmond.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on November 25, 2010, 08:47:01 PM

Quote from: boo3 on November 25, 2010, 08:26:50 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 25, 2010, 05:07:34 PM

Quote from: boo3 on November 25, 2010, 01:36:05 PM

You folks are awful reactionary considering we've played 3 games.   We have a completely new program, new coaches, new philosophy.  Combine that with a team full of seniors that have known only one thing....losing.  Give this team some time.


  Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure its being negative just being realistic to what is going on at the moment. The team isn't playing particularly well and I'm not sure I see any way around that. This board has always been insightful and fair in compliments/criticisms.

I can see this team playing a lot better than they've shown so far but I can also see this team going through the season playing very similar which is frustrating.

  I'm basically getting my info from this board as i haven't watched either of the games that started after my bedtime.   That being said, this group of players has frustrated us for the last 3 + seasons.  For anyone to think that all of a sudden they were going to be world beaters after three games with a new coaching staff is simply unrealistic.  I've felt that this year we will be a borderline tournament team ( NCAA).  I don't think that after 3 games, a 2-1 record, and the team traveling 10k miles to play these games changes any of that.

  I didn't say people were being overly negative here, just that people were getting a little to reactionary after a couple of early season tourney games.  No big deal.  Let's let the staff work it out. This is the foirst time they have dealt with these guys in game situations.

 Baldi,  what do you mean they don't have time?  Its 3 games.  We won 2.  Its not like we started out 0-3 like Iona.

I meant, for most of the players on the team this is thier last go around.

Iona beat a top 40 team

Even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days.

Remember Bryant?

Still waiting for some of that Sun in Queens?


I hope this Iona team never forgets Bryant. Just put a hurting on Albany, Norfolk St  up next. Syracuse will be ripe for the taking on Dec. 18th

Bryant isn't that bad. They've been to a couple of final 4's in last few years when they were D2. However they smoked Iona who got off to an 0-3 start and took 2 OT's to beat Richmond.

We beat Bryant by how many last year?  They then beat Iona.  That's the point I'm trying to drive home to Marco.  Yes Iona beat Richmond.  Congrats but every dog has its day.  And that same dog lost to Bryant who has been in D1 what 2-3 yrs?

Baldi you're losing credibility by defending Iona. You really can't defend them right now. Give it up!

burrell is ripped... evans isn't stronger burrell just needs to be punched in the face and have someone insult him to get him fired up, because he doesnt play hard on his own and needs to be pissed/pumped or something

2-1. Same not overally talented uneven roster. All is well!

2-1. Same not overally talented uneven roster. All is well!

  exactly!  In the immortal words of Dennis Green .. " We are who we thought we were!",  or something like that. 

  This is the same group of below average BE players we've had for 3 years. 

Baldi you're losing credibility by defending Iona. You really can't defend them right now. Give it up!

Time will tell. Imo, I think St Johns goes to the NIT, Iona to the big dance.