Season is over

We are the most experienced team in college basketball. Sometimes it's not the coach. These guys just don't get it. They didn't get Norm's system and we said they deserve better. Now they don't get Lavin's, it's on them this time.

Quote from: Moose on December 12, 2010, 04:39:21 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 12, 2010, 04:16:02 PM

Lavin can't take the free throws for them. We make our free throws, and our jumpers, we win both games.

Exactly.  Some fail to see that.  If we were waxed by 14 points I'd start pointing fingers.  We lost by 3.  Thats one basket for them and a couple FT's or a basket for us.  It sucks today.  But we have to think it will get better.

Lost by 3 after being up 20 to a team that won 3 games last year

Yeah all true.  But they did have a 20 point lead.  So its there somewhere.  I think thats a point thats being overlooked.  That means with a stop, just one stop, we win the game.  Yea we still would wonder why a lead so big evaporated twice but the fact would have been we won.  But we didn't.

Last year means zero to me.  Both from our team and theirs.  Players improve and regress its this year that is the concern.

  At what point does this coaching staff take ownership of this season? Never?  Big east season?  I totally get that this team is worse off talent wise than any of us thought.  It was easy to blame Norm for everything, because, well, he did suck. 

 It's like politics.  Obama and the Dems can continue to blame Bush for everything, but at some point, it's on you. 


  I'm willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt this early on, but at some point,  they own it.  Before next season too.

i was tight yesterday i think they can bounce back but now they have to win against a team like uconn or louisville i still think we have a chance to upset georgetown but now we need that extra win or two i still think it can be done these kids ust gotta wake up they look like they have no confidence

  At what point does this coaching staff take ownership of this season? Never?  Big east season?  I totally get that this team is worse off talent wise than any of us thought.  It was easy to blame Norm for everything, because, well, he did suck. 

 It's like politics.  Obama and the Dems can continue to blame Bush for everything, but at some point, it's on you. 


  I'm willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt this early on, but at some point,  they own it.  Before next season too.

Fraschilla's first season looked like crap when playing with most of the holdovers from Mahoney.  Fraschilla's second season also had some rough spots at the beginning.  I remember sitting at the sports bar early in the season watching West Virginia smoke us and seeing Lopez and Hamilton make the same mistakes, as seniors, as they were making in their first three seasons.  Turner wasn't getting much minutes early in the season, so I can't place him in the same boat. 


We got spanked by Georgia Tech in Puerto Rico and annihilated by--of all teams--Niagara in the Holiday Festival Tourney.  I also remember sweating bullets and having, then freshmen, Reggie Jessie bail us out against a horrible DePaul team in OT.  The season finally turned around when we beat Notre Dame in South Bend prior to the new year.

Did Fraschilla get smarter?  The only thing he might've done smarter was insert Turner in for Charles.  Basically, he brought in the lesser of two evils.  Turner was taller and secured the ball slightly better than Charles.  Charles had one speed and it was fast, which got him in trouble quite often.  Turner also had one speed... Slow.  But, I guess it was enough for Fraschilla.

The difference was Lopez, Hamilton and Turner were better players than our current group of seniors.  Not to mention, we had a guy named Artest to go along with them.  Postell had improved and Jessie played well, as a freshman.

Yes, coaching does help.  I've seen some things we're doing better, as a team.  We're not making, as many turnovers as usual.  We're passing the ball better and being much crisper.  This team still can't shoot jumpers or freebies.  Overall, this isn't a high IQ team.  We still do not have a point guard.  Leadership is also lacking.

There were a coaching faux pas on yesterday, as I thought we should've gone to a more lax man when Fordham was making their move.  But, I think there is only so much you can do with this group.  They aren't horrible.  Just very hit-and-miss.

Back to my topic....  Fraschilla didn't quite get smarter.  He had better players than this current group, and tough guys who would rip your head off for a victory like Artest and Postell.

Do any of you think Roy Williams would win with this group?  I don't think so.  I'm willing to give Lavin a chance like I do with any other coach.  I hope many of you do the same.

Do any of you think Roy Williams would win with this group?  I don't think so.  I'm willing to give Lavin a chance like I do with any other coach.  I hope many of you do the same.

Gary Williams, yes. Lol
Roy Williams, no, but, like Lavin, he's a hell of a recruiter.

IDK i guess i am different.  Im not looking at just the free throw shooting or that we just lost by three to a team that is far less  talented and won 2 games last year.  I am just looking at the big picture and saying this team has regressed from what they were last year.  THey are a year older, and add Polee (who has been insignificant lately). Doesnt matter who is to blame b/c im not smart enough to know what it is. Maybe the players arent responding to the new staff after three years of Norm, maybe it's something else.   


All i know is we were 17-16 in the best conference out there last year.  We return pretty much all of the key players and added a freshman who needs some time. This year we are looking worse record wise and lost to two teams we beat last year.  One was preaseason 9th in the A-10 and another team in the A-10 that won two games last year.  Back to back losses to teams that have far less talent is what worry's me.  YOu figured after the St. Bonnies embarrassment they would play great for 40 mins and wipe them off the floor but that wasnt the case.  How that can happen, i think shows there may be a dissconnect.  I think we can all agree Something is wrong, i just dont think the blame should be thrown in one place.  Let's be fair, lack of talent shouldnt be an argument for the last two games.  Intangibles may be another story...

We are speaking about if there has been improvements from last year. There are aspects that the team has improved and other aspects that the team has not improved.

But I think that it is more important to know if the team has improved from the first game of the season (St. Mary´s).

I hate to agree somewhat with marco baldi, but a little blame always has to be put on the staff when you blow leads like the last 2 games.

Once they started beating the press, changes should have been made sooner, and this has been a recurring theme throughout the season. 

That said, no matter what d is being played, no one, esp seniors, should give up a 21 pt lead.  The loss is more firmly on the players shoulders, but lav can't just be absolved of everything he does or doesn't do.

He has a free pass as for this season, but I will wipe that slate clean at years end.  Within this season, improvements and adjustments need to be made to try to win. 

I have said this a bunch on the redmen board, but infusing players with a new culture, dedication, and system takes a long time.

Notre dame football got waxed by navy, and lost to tulsa, in large part bc of a bonehead call by brian kelly.

Then november came, and their defense plays like world beaters, and offense, esp the running game, is much improved, despite injuries to 3 of their 4 biggest weapons on offense!

It took months before those players rid themselves of charlie weis' smug, lazy, slow ways, and incorporated kelly's hard nosed tough as nails, confident approach.

I hope it doesn't take until feb with us, but teaching guys who have learned a certain way for 3 years an entirely new mentality and approach to the game is harder than it sounds. 

I expect we will be happy w lavin THIS year.

I thought this was the gang that can't shoot straight but now i am convinced they deserve the Saturday Night Live name--The Not Ready For Prime Time Players.  a "PTP-er" in Al McGuire's lingo was a go to guy, a guy who steps it up.  In the second half of the FU game, the Rams twice had a 16-0 run.  A PTP-er would have stopped those runs but obviously we do not have one.  FU is not the prime time part of our schedule and that is what scares the heck out of me.  Who is going to stop the Duke, Cuse, Conn, Pitt, et. al. run when they have to step up and be a PTP.  I don't see anyone wearing STJ being able to do that.

Quote from: mjdinkins on December 12, 2010, 07:31:35 PM

Do any of you think Roy Williams would win with this group?  I don't think so.  I'm willing to give Lavin a chance like I do with any other coach.  I hope many of you do the same.

Gary Williams, yes. Lol
Roy Williams, no, but, like Lavin, he's a hell of a recruiter.

Has Gary ever inherited a team full of brick masons? 

Quote from: Not The Sleaveless Guy on December 12, 2010, 10:55:00 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on December 12, 2010, 07:31:35 PM

Do any of you think Roy Williams would win with this group?  I don't think so.  I'm willing to give Lavin a chance like I do with any other coach.  I hope many of you do the same.

Gary Williams, yes. Lol
Roy Williams, no, but, like Lavin, he's a hell of a recruiter.

Has Gary ever inherited a team full of brick masons? 

That team he inherited at Maryland was godawful, due to the lasting aftermath of the Bias scandal/death.

In the end, I thought we'd struggle to make the tournament this year, but I thought we were beyond the days of frankly stunning losses to pathetic opponents like Fordham.

That team he inherited at Maryland was godawful, due to the lasting aftermath of the Bias scandal/death.

In the end, I thought we'd struggle to make the tournament this year, but I thought we were beyond the days of frankly stunning losses to pathetic opponents like Fordham.

Gary Williams was catching some flak from the natives a couple of years ago, due to being in the NIT a few too many seasons.  I think he's a heckuva coach, but you saw what happened to his teams shortly after winning the national title.

Hey!  You won't get any argument from me, in reference to losing to teams like Fordham.  I don't like it like the next person.  But, I'm not in panic mode like some folk. 

I'm just willing to give it more time.

I'm class of '82  SJC   I have finally decided to come forward and advise all here that the day that SJU announced that they would no longer call themselves  "THE REDMEN" I placed a Hungarian curse (taught to me by my grandmother) on the basketball program.  From that day forward the team has done terrible and will continue to do so. 

Florida State can call themselves the Seminoles but SJU cannot continue the REDMAN tradition?  That is absurd!

I have seen fit to come forward only now that my son is going to Boston College and I have once again begun watching college hoops.  Traditions are important in college.  St. John's had a storied tradition in Redman hoops and NYC basketball lore.

Return to the Redmen!  Give us back our name! Give us back our tradition!  Alumni come forth!

Give back our rightful name and I will take back the curse!

I'm class of '82  SJC   I have finally decided to come forward and advise all here that the day that SJU announced that they would no longer call themselves  "THE REDMEN" I placed a Hungarian curse (taught to me by my grandmother) on the basketball program.  From that day forward the team has done terrible and will continue to do so. 

Florida State can call themselves the Seminoles but SJU cannot continue the REDMAN tradition?  That is absurd!

I have seen fit to come forward only now that my son is going to Boston College and I have once again begun watching college hoops.  Traditions are important in college.  St. John's had a storied tradition in Redman hoops and NYC basketball lore.

Return to the Redmen!  Give us back our name! Give us back our tradition!  Alumni come forth!

Give back our rightful name and I will take back the curse!

first of all, this post is stupid.

2nd, comparing the seminoles to redmen is completely different.  seminole is a tribe of indians, redmen is a derogatory slang name about the skin color of indians. syracuse were the orangemen, but changed to the orange, because of the same issue.

how come we didn't change our name to the Red?

We got punched in the face and we ran away crying to our mom.

That sums up perfectly my take on the game.  I sat behind the St. John's bench and could not believe what was happening.  I have tried to never knock the players personally while critiquing their performance, but in that game the players showed no guts.  Two Fordham players had 4 fouls the entire second half and no one went at them.  Instead, everyone settled for jumpers.  Why do our players try to avoid contact underneath instead of looking to get the foul call.  It is sickening.

We are the most experienced team in college basketball. Sometimes it's not the coach. These guys just don't get it. They didn't get Norm's system and we said they deserve better. Now they don't get Lavin's, it's on them this time.

I agree 100% not much more to it.

I'm class of '82  SJC   I have finally decided to come forward and advise all here that the day that SJU announced that they would no longer call themselves  "THE REDMEN" I placed a Hungarian curse (taught to me by my grandmother) on the basketball program.  From that day forward the team has done terrible and will continue to do so. 

Florida State can call themselves the Seminoles but SJU cannot continue the REDMAN tradition?  That is absurd!

I have seen fit to come forward only now that my son is going to Boston College and I have once again begun watching college hoops.  Traditions are important in college.  St. John's had a storied tradition in Redman hoops and NYC basketball lore.

Return to the Redmen!  Give us back our name! Give us back our tradition!  Alumni come forth!

Give back our rightful name and I will take back the curse!

you are a joke, shut up. Co sign with what Offspring said, enough with this crying about the name of the team, GET THE HELL OVER IT.

Quote from: bollo on December 14, 2010, 11:02:20 AM

I'm class of '82  SJC   I have finally decided to come forward and advise all here that the day that SJU announced that they would no longer call themselves  "THE REDMEN" I placed a Hungarian curse (taught to me by my grandmother) on the basketball program.  From that day forward the team has done terrible and will continue to do so. 

Florida State can call themselves the Seminoles but SJU cannot continue the REDMAN tradition?  That is absurd!

I have seen fit to come forward only now that my son is going to Boston College and I have once again begun watching college hoops.  Traditions are important in college.  St. John's had a storied tradition in Redman hoops and NYC basketball lore.

Return to the Redmen!  Give us back our name! Give us back our tradition!  Alumni come forth!

Give back our rightful name and I will take back the curse!

you are a joke, shut up. Co sign with what Offspring said, enough with this crying about the name of the team, GET THE HELL OVER IT.

  Dude, no need to be a jerk.  Guy was expressing an opinion in a tongue and cheek manner.  You kids today,  jeez.