Jon Rothstein blogs on IS8

Mo is a good 3 to 4 inches shorter than Kevin Durant.

"So what wrong with comparing and guessing", no one asked me but. fans created this image of the player which bear no resemblance to his actual abilities. Then when he fails to live up to their creation they either attack him for no being their creation or they continue to assert that creation rather value the recruit on his actual abilities.

Quote from: Poison on May 09, 2011, 09:58:31 AM

I think it would be great if this class came in with the hype centered around the group, instead of just one guy.
I'd like to compare Harkless to another player that had the balls to stay home when the hometown program was garbage.

That's the kind of hype we need.

Expecting any of these guys to be on par with an NBA superstar is not only nuts, but it's a great example of a lesson NOT well learned.

I just think it's optimism and who are more deserving of a little of that than SJU fans?  As far as lessons are concerned I think that's an open issue right now.  We don't have any top ten guys but we have enough talent from the next echelon to assume that at least one or twn are going to break through and make it big, rankings being the inexact things they are.  So what's wrong with trying to compare and guess who the biggies will be?

What's wrong with trying to compare and guess who the biggies will be?

FELIPE LOPEZ. That's what. He was an emotional disaster at St.John's.

Quote from: Marillac on May 09, 2011, 08:43:44 AM

Quote from: boo3 on May 07, 2011, 10:27:35 AM

Kevin Durant is a freak of nature. Any comparisons to him are a stretch.   I mean, come on.  Durant is nearly 7 feet tall with unlimited range.

Durant is 6'9.  Mo is 6'8 and 17 years old.  Durant is not a physical freak, but he's one skilled S.O.B.

  Whatever.  If Harkless is leading the NBA in scoring in 2 years, i'll apologize for calling the comparison ridiculous. 

LOL

It's just a comparison.  I don't think anyone expects Harkless to be Durant.  He doesn't have that scorer's edge right now...he defers too much.  Durant can light it up.  I do think Harkless will be a first round pick if he is close that that listed 6'8 height.  I just don't think Durant is as good as he is because of physical gifts...he is so tremendously skilled.  Durant was a great shooter from deep coming in...I think Mo can be there soon with work.  I just hope that Mo has the intangibles Durant possessed.

Quote from: Poison on May 09, 2011, 09:58:31 AM

I think it would be great if this class came in with the hype centered around the group, instead of just one guy.
I'd like to compare Harkless to another player that had the balls to stay home when the hometown program was garbage.

That's the kind of hype we need.

Expecting any of these guys to be on par with an NBA superstar is not only nuts, but it's a great example of a lesson NOT well learned.

I just think it's optimism and who are more deserving of a little of that than SJU fans?  As far as lessons are concerned I think that's an open issue right now.  We don't have any top ten guys but we have enough talent from the next echelon to assume that at least one or twn are going to break through and make it big, rankings being the inexact things they are.  So what's wrong with trying to compare and guess who the biggies will be?

The truth is that to be a great overall team, we don't necessarily need the top 30 guys.  One or two would be great, but not required to be a great team.  Just look at how all of our guys are playing together at IS8.  IMO Lavin is doing a masterful job of getting these kids to gel early and often.  This is not haphazard.  It's a coordinated effort to get our guys going in the same direction, well before next fall. 

I have watched lots of the top 10 guys.  Norvel Pelle is every bit as good as Rakeem Christmas wrt talent level.  Is Dom Pointer that far inferior to a very similar player in LeBryan Nash?  I'm not so sure.  No we might not have a McD's AA on roster, but we have an entire team that is ranked on the cusp of those players and we have depth at that level well beyond a starting 5.  We have 2 teams worth. 

Compare and contrast the talent level we have on the team now to our team last season, and one can see the amazing distance we have come in only one recruiting class.  I absolutely loved last years team.  One of the most fun and rewarding seasons in memory.  Still, nobody will confuse that team with one of the most talented nor deepest.  Last year's team competed because we played to our strengths with great coaching getting us to do so.  The guys we have coming in are superior talents in almost every way.  We'll be young but we have some warriors coming in that athletically and skills wise-are far superior to the guys we've had in the past.  It's going to be fun.  Can't wait to roll this team into Cameron next season.

I

Quote from: bobre45 on May 09, 2011, 10:19:59 AM

Quote from: Poison on May 09, 2011, 09:58:31 AM

I think it would be great if this class came in with the hype centered around the group, instead of just one guy.
I'd like to compare Harkless to another player that had the balls to stay home when the hometown program was garbage.

That's the kind of hype we need.

Expecting any of these guys to be on par with an NBA superstar is not only nuts, but it's a great example of a lesson NOT well learned.

I just think it's optimism and who are more deserving of a little of that than SJU fans?  As far as lessons are concerned I think that's an open issue right now.  We don't have any top ten guys but we have enough talent from the next echelon to assume that at least one or twn are going to break through and make it big, rankings being the inexact things they are.  So what's wrong with trying to compare and guess who the biggies will be?

The truth is that to be a great overall team, we don't necessarily need the top 30 guys.  One or two would be great, but not required to be a great team.  Just look at how all of our guys are playing together at IS8.  IMO Lavin is doing a masterful job of getting these kids to gel early and often.  This is not haphazard.  It's a coordinated effort to get our guys going in the same direction, well before next fall. 

I have watched lots of the top 10 guys.  Norvel Pelle is every bit as good as Rakeem Christmas wrt talent level.  Is Dom Pointer that far inferior to a very similar player in LeBryan Nash?  I'm not so sure.  No we might not have a McD's AA on roster, but we have an entire team that is ranked on the cusp of those players and we have depth at that level well beyond a starting 5.  We have 2 teams worth. 

Compare and contrast the talent level we have on the team now to our team last season, and one can see the amazing distance we have come in only one recruiting class.  I absolutely loved last years team.  One of the most fun and rewarding seasons in memory.  Still, nobody will confuse that team with one of the most talented nor deepest.  Last year's team competed because we played to our strengths with great coaching getting us to do so.  The guys we have coming in are superior talents in almost every way.  We'll be young but we have some warriors coming in that athletically and skills wise-are far superior to the guys we've had in the past.  It's going to be fun.  Can't wait to roll this team into Cameron next season.

I

Totally agree.  Once you're in the top 60 - 70 or so it's anybody's guess. We had no real stars this year but when they played together they could beat anyone.  Double the overall talent and there's almost nothing we can't do.

I think there's a lot of potential stars in this year's class.  But to say that guys ranked 50-70 have anywhere near the success rate of top 30 players is ridiculous.  You usually get solid contributors at that 50-70 level but very special players traditionally identify themselves early and are ranked as such.  Yes there are exceptions but that's why they're called exceptions.  Take a stroll over to RSCI and look at the classes. 

The NBA is full of top five players who never amounted to squat.  And those rankings were after their college experience was known.  Your talking about teenagers and believing that they can be accurately evaluated before they're even done growing.  Now THAT'S ridiculous.  Ratings are just guesses but they do produce favoritism that can last for years.  Even in the pros high draft picks tend to stick around after stinking up the courts because some people who mete out playing time and roster spots staked their reputations on them.  Don't get me going on NBA flops.  Just go to NBA.com and look at past drafts if you don't believe what I'm saying.  Don't know where to go to see college flops and surprising phenoms but there have been many.  Rankings can be useful but if you hang your hat on them you'll be picking it off the floor more than you think.

In regards to rankings, I look at a kid like Jeremy Lamb who was unranked by ESPN, 76th in the nation by Rivals, and scout's #21SG and would assume to be a skinny, undersized wing---and as a freshman, he was absolutely detrimental to UCONN's success at the end of the year(Obviously second fiddle to Kemba, but still...11 straight double digit pt games to end the season, 24 points on 9-11 shooting vs a very good SDSU team...12-19 from 3 in the NCAA tournament, etc.)

Now odds are we won't have a Kemba Walker lol next year, and maybe it's just me---but watching some footage of some of these kids Lavin and co. have recruited, it's crazy to think there's xx amount of players in the class better than some of them. (Looking at Harkless, Harrison, Pointer especially..)

Bob, rankings are indeed an inexact process but directionally they are right more than they're wrong.  I'm just glad STJ is bringing in ranked players again and am very optimistic about the future even though the guys coming in have just as much a chance to disappoint as any others in the top 100, they also have just as much a chance to shine.

Comparing the college ranking process to the draft doesn't really work though.  NBA drafts are not the same as college rankings, mostly because there are not as many spots to fill.  Role players are a dime a dozen and teams can find mature proven guys all over the place so they draft on potential and athleticism, and certainly not on college rankings.  Of course they hope to get it correct but generally they want to catch lightning in a bottle, not just pick up a guy they know will be of long time value as a spot player on the 11th seat of the bench. 

Quote from: Marillac on May 09, 2011, 08:43:44 AM

Quote from: boo3 on May 07, 2011, 10:27:35 AM

Kevin Durant is a freak of nature. Any comparisons to him are a stretch.   I mean, come on.  Durant is nearly 7 feet tall with unlimited range.

Durant is 6'9.  Mo is 6'8 and 17 years old.  Durant is not a physical freak, but he's one skilled S.O.B.

  Whatever.  If Harkless is leading the NBA in scoring in 2 years, i'll apologize for calling the comparison ridiculous. 

Hey - Boo - be fair.   Durrant didn't lead the NBA in scoring till after one year of college, and two seasons in the NBA.   You gotta give Mo FOUR years, not two!   

Durant did terribly in the NBA strength workouts.  Very far from physical freak status.  What he is is a damn good player.  My personal opinion is that too much attention is paid to potential and athleticism and not enough to actual performance stats against top notch competition.  So many good productive players are ignored because their verticals might be an inch or two lower than guys who can't put the ball in the ocean.  Last I looked pro hoops isn't a track meet and the NBA has gotten downright dull focusing on super athletes rather than good players.  This has hurt their attendance as much as anything.  Good college players would be good in the NBA given half a chance and kids that sold tickets in college would sell them in the pros.  I look at a 6'5" guy like Barkley and wonder whether he would even be drafted in today's NBA.  I guess all this really accelerated with Jordan but he was way more than a super athlete.  I just wish good college players would get more respect for their actual achievements rather than their measurements.  There's nothing better than watching a team with kids who know how to play and there too few of them in the league for my taste.  I think that's why college hoops outdraws the pros in so many cases.

Durant did terribly in the NBA strength workouts.  Very far from physical freak status.  What he is is a damn good player.  My personal opinion is that too much attention is paid to potential and athleticism and not enough to actual performance stats against top notch competition.  So many good productive players are ignored because their verticals might be an inch or two lower than guys who can't put the ball in the ocean.  Last I looked pro hoops isn't a track meet and the NBA has gotten downright dull focusing on super athletes rather than good players.  This has hurt their attendance as much as anything.  Good college players would be good in the NBA given half a chance and kids that sold tickets in college would sell them in the pros.  I look at a 6'5" guy like Barkley and wonder whether he would even be drafted in today's NBA.  I guess all this really accelerated with Jordan but he was way more than a super athlete.  I just wish good college players would get more respect for their actual achievements rather than their measurements.  There's nothing better than watching a team with kids who know how to play and there too few of them in the league for my taste.  I think that's why college hoops outdraws the pros in so many cases.

totally agree bobre

In regards to rankings, I look at a kid like Jeremy Lamb who was unranked by ESPN, 76th in the nation by Rivals, and scout's #21SG and would assume to be a skinny, undersized wing---and as a freshman, he was absolutely detrimental to UCONN's success at the end of the year(Obviously second fiddle to Kemba, but still...11 straight double digit pt games to end the season, 24 points on 9-11 shooting vs a very good SDSU team...12-19 from 3 in the NCAA tournament, etc.)

Now odds are we won't have a Kemba Walker lol next year, and maybe it's just me---but watching some footage of some of these kids Lavin and co. have recruited, it's crazy to think there's xx amount of players in the class better than some of them. (Looking at Harkless, Harrison, Pointer especially..)

First I'm pretty sure he wasn't detrimental.  Second there are always exceptions.

Think he meant instrumental.

Think he meant instrumental.

I'm pretty sure you're right.