Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall

A month before practice begins, St. John's was dealt a significant blow to their 2011-12 men's basketball season Thursday, when three members of its much-ballyhooed incoming class were declared ineligible for at least the fall semester.

Jakarr Sampson, Norvel Pelle and Amir Garrett -- all three among the top 100 players in the nation in their high school class, according to ESPNU's rankings -- will not be able to suit up for the Red Storm this fall, after failing to qualify academically.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/ncb/story/_/id/6974420/st-john-3-players-ruled-ineligible-fall-semester

A person with direct knowledge of the players’ situation said that the N.C.A.A. did not accept three classes each of them took this summer at Northeastern Prep in Philadelphia. The St. John’s coaching staff remains hopeful that the players can retake the classes this fall and be eligible in December.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sports/basketball/three-st-johns-recruits-fail-to-qualify.html?_r=1

A person with direct knowledge of the players’ situation said that the N.C.A.A. did not accept three classes each of them took this summer at Northeastern Prep in Philadelphia. The St. John’s coaching staff remains hopeful that the players can retake the classes this fall and be eligible in December.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sports/basketball/three-st-johns-recruits-fail-to-qualify.html?_r=1

If that's true, whose the person responsible for setting them up with those classes at that school??

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on September 16, 2011, 07:19:25 AM

A person with direct knowledge of the players’ situation said that the N.C.A.A. did not accept three classes each of them took this summer at Northeastern Prep in Philadelphia. The St. John’s coaching staff remains hopeful that the players can retake the classes this fall and be eligible in December.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sports/basketball/three-st-johns-recruits-fail-to-qualify.html?_r=1

If that's true, whose the person responsible for setting them up with those classes at that school??

What do you mean who's responsible? Lavin is the head coach, CEO. He signs off on all decisions. Look no further than him. I mean c'mon you serious? Don't start pointing the finger at any one staff member. It's head coach call.

Bottomline, Lavin was compelled to put out a huge recruiting net to haul in as many players as he could due to the lack of recruiting thought process and numerous transfers under the prior regime.

I knew this was all Bush's Norm's fault.

Norm recruited poorly, players were booted, shirley!

Theo, who's responsible for setting them up with classes? They are responsible. You went to high school. Were you responsible for your own classes?

Quote from: TRabinowitz on September 16, 2011, 07:34:30 AM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on September 16, 2011, 07:19:25 AM

A person with direct knowledge of the players’ situation said that the N.C.A.A. did not accept three classes each of them took this summer at Northeastern Prep in Philadelphia. The St. John’s coaching staff remains hopeful that the players can retake the classes this fall and be eligible in December.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sports/basketball/three-st-johns-recruits-fail-to-qualify.html?_r=1

If that's true, whose the person responsible for setting them up with those classes at that school??

What do you mean who's responsible? Lavin is the head coach, CEO. He signs off on all decisions. Look no further than him. I mean c'mon you serious? Don't start pointing the finger at any one staff member. It's head coach call.

It might be, but not necessarily.  Could be his responsibility, could be one of his assistants, could be someone in compliance. 

Also, why weren't these classes from Philly Prep accepted?? Have players gone there for summer classes before AND gotten eligible?? I know players go take summer courses all the time to get eligible before their frosh year so why wasn't it approved in this case??

Theo, who's responsible for setting them up with classes? They are responsible. You went to high school. Were you responsible for your own classes?

Actually, my guidance counselor is the one that set me up with my classes and schedule in HS lol.

Quote from: SJUhoopNUT on September 16, 2011, 07:41:40 AM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on September 16, 2011, 07:34:30 AM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on September 16, 2011, 07:19:25 AM

A person with direct knowledge of the players’ situation said that the N.C.A.A. did not accept three classes each of them took this summer at Northeastern Prep in Philadelphia. The St. John’s coaching staff remains hopeful that the players can retake the classes this fall and be eligible in December.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sports/basketball/three-st-johns-recruits-fail-to-qualify.html?_r=1

If that's true, whose the person responsible for setting them up with those classes at that school??

What do you mean who's responsible? Lavin is the head coach, CEO. He signs off on all decisions. Look no further than him. I mean c'mon you serious? Don't start pointing the finger at any one staff member. It's head coach call.

It might be, but not necessarily.  Could be his responsibility, could be one of his assistants, could be someone in compliance. 

Also, why weren't these classes from Philly Prep accepted?? Have players gone there for summer classes before AND gotten eligible?? I know players go take summer courses all the time to get eligible before their frosh year so why wasn't it approved in this case??

Well, I'm sure Lavin didn't locate and set up their enrollment, that probably fell to one of the assistants or compliance staff. But ultimately, I would think he gave the green light for them to attend.

As for why they weren't approved, I have no idea. Is it an NCAA accredited school? Sounds like the NCAA just didn't think it was kosher because they got A's. I mean it's summer school, the cirriculum isn't that intense in summer school right? I really have no idea.

Guys, we should support all three of these kids, because they are human. They made a mistake. It will be how they handle it that will show us what their true character is about.

That said, let's not be irrational and go around blaming coaches and guidance counselors.
These are student athletes, not athlete students. Their classes and requirements are on them.

Um, the school wuz a hail mary pass wit no time left on the clock.
Think y'all is playin it up a lil too much.

Um, the school wuz a hail mary pass wit no time left on the clock.
Think y'all is playin it up a lil too much.

So Choz if that is the case, how can we expect them to be eligible by Dec.?

Quote from: Choz4Life on September 16, 2011, 08:15:54 AM

Um, the school wuz a hail mary pass wit no time left on the clock.
Think y'all is playin it up a lil too much.

So Choz if that is the case, how can we expect them to be eligible by Dec.?

Because for the fall there are more options for what they will be able to do.

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on September 16, 2011, 07:19:25 AM

A person with direct knowledge of the players’ situation said that the N.C.A.A. did not accept three classes each of them took this summer at Northeastern Prep in Philadelphia. The St. John’s coaching staff remains hopeful that the players can retake the classes this fall and be eligible in December.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/sports/basketball/three-st-johns-recruits-fail-to-qualify.html?_r=1

If that's true, whose the person responsible for setting them up with those classes at that school??

I believe that would be the players themselves. At least that's the way it was for me in high school.  Yes, I had a guidance counselor, but that's all she was there for, was guidance.  Ultimately I made all the choices myself as to what classes I took. And if his schedule were determined by other people, I would really start to question them and their motives.

 :tickedoff:It might be my imagination, but it seems to me that there are some schools that those bleeping bleeps at the NCAA, just don't like. They pissed me off with the thing about Erick Barkley being suspended for few games. Jarvis said things he shouldn't have said. They seemed to be on the University's case. Now this disgraceful act. You mean to tell me that those clowns couldn't figure out 2 months ago that they "wouldn't accept those classes"? It's like they put St. John's last on their list, to investigate the player's classes. There's no doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that they deliberately made the University wait until after classes already started. Those fools have no credibility whatsoever!

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

Well then, with that thinking we would never had had the following players:

Jayson Williams - Prop 48 who didn't play his freshman year.
Billy Singleton - Prop 48 who didn't play his freshman year.
Chuck Sproiling - Prop 48 who didn't play his freshman year.
Chudney Gray - Didn't qualify intially out of high school, didn't enroll in the fall, retook the SAT, scored high enough and joined the team at the end of the firs semester
Dirk Menefield - Didn't graduate after two years a Juco, having to spend another semester, before joining the school in the second semester of his Junior year.
Bootsie Thornton - You can give this one an asterisk, because I don't think we tried to get him or were expecting him to come after two years of Juco, but he did an extra semester at Juco, finished enrolled and joined the team in the second semester, however he redshirted and had two full years of eligibility
Anthony Glover - Prop 48 his freshman year but graduated in four years thereby regaining a year of eligibility and played as a graduate student.
Shariff Fordham - Was supposed to come after Jarvis first year but didn't finish his academic requirements in Juco (after transferring from either Mississippi or Miss. State after his freshman year).  Spent a year at Nassau Community before being coming to St. John's.
Ryan Williams - Was supposed to join the club after finishing his 2 year Juco requirements but due to illness did not complete the requirements to graduate.  Wound up doing an extra semester.  I believe he joined the team after the extra semester and redshirted like Bootsie, but I am not a 100% sure.

While Fordham ran into problems after graduation, all of the above while at St. John's did nothing to embarrass or shame the University with Thornton being a star, Glover a solid four year starter and Gray finishing up as a extremely valuable reserve (6th man as a senior) on an Elite 8 and then a BE Champion team.

This could be a case where the grades are fine, but they are missing core courses.  The could have taken courses that the NCAA feels does not satisfy the requirements while they thought they did.  Or it could be GPA or it could be the combination of the GPA and SAT scores is too low.  Which might mean they could just have to retake the SAT and score higher.  None of us knows for sure.  We shall see.

As for Robbins, he is a reporter and a sometime columnist and did what he is paid to do.  What he wrote, many others are also either saying or wondering.  IMHO three players at the same time is a big blow to any program and is a public relations hit.   I am not willing however, to just sever ties, especially not knowing all of the facts.

Quote from: jumbo_peanuts on September 15, 2011, 10:23:53 PM

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

You take that short-sighted approach and Walter Berry never suit up fo St. John.
Or Boo Harvey never wins five games fo us as a senior.
Or Bootsy Thornton never leads us to a BE championship.

Silly post yo. Silly.

    How the heck did I forget Walter.  Boo I thought about but didn't include in my list because he was qualified to play after his two years of Juco, but a good point Choz.

Quote from: newsman13 on September 15, 2011, 11:30:44 PM

Quote from: jumbo_peanuts on September 15, 2011, 10:23:53 PM

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

this post is absolutely embarassing.  really, really embarassing.

Sorry but I can't have a pity party for a group of men who can't seem to get their sh*t together.....thousands and thousands, if not millions, of college students have no trouble making themselves eligible every year, why couldn't these kids?

NCAA has certain core requirements for classes that must be taken and how many in particular subjects.  You can graduate from H.S. and be accepted into college without meeting these core requirements.  If it is indeed one particular class they needed to make up their core requirements for eligibility, it did not keep them from being able to be accepted as students here or possibly other schools.

Doesn't matter whose fault it is. it just sucks. I also want to give the players the benefit of the doubt and another chance. But we need a contingency plan. We cant just hope they all qualify and come back in december. 7 players cant get it done.

Quote from: jumbo_peanuts on September 16, 2011, 12:03:20 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on September 15, 2011, 11:30:44 PM

Quote from: jumbo_peanuts on September 15, 2011, 10:23:53 PM

If it it were up to me, and if it were possible, I would cut all ties and communication with these kids, kindly show them the door, and never welcome them back.  I don't know all the details of their ineligibility, but if they don't have the smarts or discipline to make themselves eligible, I don't want them associated with this university at all.  It's absolutely embarrassing.

this post is absolutely embarassing.  really, really embarassing.

Sorry but I can't have a pity party for a group of men who can't seem to get their sh*t together.....thousands and thousands, if not millions, of college students have no trouble making themselves eligible every year, why couldn't these kids?

NCAA has certain core requirements for classes that must be taken and how many in particular subjects.  You can graduate from H.S. and be accepted into college without meeting these core requirements.  If it is indeed one particular class they needed to make up their core requirements for eligibility, it did not keep them from being able to be accepted as students here or possibly other schools.

I was told by a director at a baseball camp that he once had a player accepted to Harvard but did not get clearance from the NCAA to play baseball due to a core class requirement and had to sit out a year.