Which generation is smarter?

"In terms of the costs, relatively speaking, the cost is no more now then it was 30 years ago."

For a professor (if you even are or were one) you don't seem to know your facts. http://gunsandbullets.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/total-cost-of-college-vs-other-goods1.png?w=500&h=338 go try and argue that one.

Obviously, you dont know your math.  The cost of a 4 year college education in 1978 was about 15K, half the price of a house back then.  The cost of tuition in 2006 was about 120K, less then half the price of a house.  hmmmmm Do the math whiz kid, looks like tuition was higher then...RELATIVELY SPEAKING!!! In terms of which curriculum was harder,  since you were not around back then, how would you know?  What I know is that the New York State regents standards today in math is a complete joke.  One only needs to get a 30/85 for a passing grade of 65 on the Algebra regents........  So please get your facts straight before you tell us all how tough you have it.

St. John's University is just that - a university.  They are here for their students, first and foremost.

And who helps support the university and what the students have?  Oh yeah the alumni.

Realfan, if you are seriously arguing the cost of living including houses and tuition/room and board are cheaper or similar to when you were a teenager, you are just arguing with a wall, because that is simple fact. Enough with this housing costs being relative to tuition...what does that even say? The point I'm making is that college is way, way, way more expensive than ever, houses are much more expensive, there are not many jobs, etc. It is harder now than it was in your day. Why do you think people are protesting in every major city if it was all gravy like you imply? The tests are certainly used more today than in your day. You really think your generation is better at math? You guys can't even help your kids with their middle school math homework, so what does that say about how much you learned? Go up to someone around 40+ in the street and ask them to do PEMDAS. They will crap their pants. Ever seen are you smarter than a 5th grader? 5th graders routinely outsmart adults. It's all around you. I'm not just trying to say we have it the hardest forever though, because with each new generation, standards will get higher and more will be expected of them

"You do know that NCLB was implemented to soften testing to insure more students would pass right?"

Wow, just wow. Soften testing? NCLB is one of the most destructive forces in the entire education system. I haven't heard of one school or parent who support it. ALL it uses are tests. They don't care about what the students do in the classroom, it's pass or you don't move on with your friends. Do you know how much stress this puts on children? No, you don't because you never had it. NCLB is a system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Teachers are being fired every year because their students did bad on the test, and none of it is her fault...it's the pressure these kids are under and the unfairness of the tests. How can you say it was meant to SOFTEN testing? School went from essays, presentations, projects, powerpoints, etc. to TEST TEST TEST because of NCLB. If your kid gets an A all year and fails that NCLB test, guess what? He doesn't move on to the next grade. If he is in high school in some places, he will not be able to graduate. Real laid back huh? You never had anything in your generation with stakes like these. You guys got tests from teachers, not the government and test publishers.

Quote from: Redmen010 on October 11, 2011, 01:39:25 AM

St. John's University is just that - a university.  They are here for their students, first and foremost.

And who helps support the university and what the students have?  Oh yeah the alumni.

Why aren't kids allowed in strip clubs?! They get money from their grandparents for their bday...why is their money no good?! 

Quote from: Moose on October 11, 2011, 09:21:54 PM

Quote from: Redmen010 on October 11, 2011, 01:39:25 AM

St. John's University is just that - a university.  They are here for their students, first and foremost.

And who helps support the university and what the students have?  Oh yeah the alumni.

Why aren't kids allowed in strip clubs?! They get money from their grandparents for their bday...why is their money no good?! 

Hey I'll take you there if you want.  But you think I'm old man river or something when in reality I'm not that far removed from you

Nothing can ease the tension on this board better than a good lapdance 

Nothing can ease the tension on this board better than a good lapdance 

Tension, what tension?        ..... man you need to relax kid.

I went last year and it was a hoot. I traveled all the way from Hartford, CT and made it in time and got a ticket no problem. I even got some pizza and this guy Mike's gatorade juice(forgot the name). I came out with some cool flyers to hang in my kids room, a sweat shirt and wallet from the vendor and alot of excitement for last year's team. We all know how that season went. I will predict it will be even more hyped this year. Support the guys that made the grade and team this year and make the sacrifice. The referee last year was hiliarious and the entertainment and DJ were good too. I will be bringing my son this year.

Johnnie11:
You do realize that because of NCLB, you are learning a lot less than the supposed old-timers on the board, right? Students in the past had a well-rounded education, whereas students today are being taught only enough to pass what's on a test. You guys are completely lacking in critical thought.

Johnnie11:
You do realize that because of NCLB, you are learning a lot less than the supposed old-timers on the board, right? Students in the past had a well-rounded education, whereas students today are being taught only enough to pass what's on a test. You guys are completely lacking in critical thought.

Thank you, that's the point I was trying to make.

Johnnie11:
You do realize that because of NCLB, you are learning a lot less than the supposed old-timers on the board, right? Students in the past had a well-rounded education, whereas students today are being taught only enough to pass what's on a test. You guys are completely lacking in critical thought.

As a math educator, that was quite obvious from Johnnie's lack of understanding of the term "relatively speaking". He presented a chart of statistics but was unable to decipher or apply general mathematics to understand that while tuition is in fact high today, is was "relatively" higher some time ago as it was a greater percentage of one's salary at that time.  NCLB is all about prepping for tests.  Children who have learned under this nightmare are well versed in mathematical concepts and general operations but surely lack in understanding for their applications to general knowledge.  Believe me, I am well versed in this garbage.

Enough of this "back in my day we worked harder and were much smarter" BS. Look at the facts we are smarter.

 Has intelligence changed at all in the era of the Internet?
Merzenich: Over the past 20 years or so, beginning before the Internet really took hold, the standard measure of "intelligence" (cognitive ability) has risen significantly (well more than 10 points). No one really knows what to pin this on, but it is a well-documented fact.

http://moreintelligentlife.com/story/the-world-is-getting-smarter

"The biggest reason high school is more difficult now than in our parent's day is the requirements placed on schools and students by government.  Students can no longer just pass core courses and acquire a specific number of credits in order to graduate.  Students must now pass ISTEP/GQE or Core 40 or whatever other state-mandated test exists in addition to the school requirements."

"School is also much more difficult now because of the pressure from other nations.  The media constantly examines the education of other nations, such as China. We hear stories about young children mastering complex mathematics or science; we see images of young students playing near master-level instruments. In turn, our society is also constantly reminded of how average our schools and students have become. We read about increased drop-out rates and poor graduation rates.  We also see where schools are closing because they hae lost government funding because of their "number".  There is immense pressure for students to demonstrate above-average academics, prove themselves in some sort of artistic/creative/athletic area.  Grades are no longer enough to get ahead; learning languages, volunteering, or somehow setting oneself apart from the rest is almost required to achieve today."

"I think high school is very difficult today because it has to be.  Schools are driven by graduation rates and test scores, and because of this, students are being tested more today than ever before.  Students are driven by high GPAs and class rank, because without them, getting in to college is that much more difficult.  Our parents and grandparents did not have near the pressure that our current high school students face.  During their time, jobs were readily available; money was easier to obtain, and college was an option.  Today, jobs and money are few and far between, and college is a necessity."

Those are just some things I found on the internet. This is overwhelmingly in support of our generation having much tougher standards in a worse economy.

Honestly, at any point in your pre-college career did you feel pressure because a place like Finland has a better education system?

Never Finland. China is the big one. Yes in High School we were told how amazing their students are so we clearly felt the need to do more as a result creating more pressure. You guys were our age at a time when the US was a near utopia compared to today. You guys didn't have 5 billion tests standing between you and graduation, and you could have a 2.5 GPA and still get into a great college. Today it's not unusual for the average college to accept 30%.

And there was a job waiting for you outside of college after graduation. Not today. You didn't even NEED a college degree to make good money then. Today a BA is not only common, but becoming obsolete. That's how much more educated the new generations are than those of years ago.

Not sure what decade you are referring to, but I graduated high school in 1989, and you definitely weren't getting into a great college with a 2.5. And passing at my high school was 75, not 65. And it wasn't shocking to receive a 300-question final exam, so I'm just going to have to laugh at the pressure today's students are under.

I also don't get how you can claim today's kids are smarter when the U.S. education system is so much worse today than in the past.

Not sure what decade you are referring to, but I graduated high school in 1989, and you definitely weren't getting into a great college with a 2.5. And passing at my high school was 75, not 65. And it wasn't shocking to receive a 300-question final exam, so I'm just going to have to laugh at the pressure today's students are under.

I also don't get how you can claim today's kids are smarter when the U.S. education system is so much worse today than in the past.

Believe me, I just graduated in 2009, yeah there may be more tests, but that doesn't necessarily make it harder. This kid is trying to make it sound like it's a grueling chore to pass high school these days. Yeah I may have gotten a little stressed out for some of the bigger tests, like the end of the year regents', but it's not like high school students 20 years ago didn't have final exams they got stressed out for too.

LJSA go look at my sources. It's not speculation, it's fact. Sorry, I don't know how else to make you get it. "receive a 300-question final exam" um...that still happens. Did you have a 5th grade writing test when you were that age? No. We did. Did you have Terra Novas? No. We did. Did you have the new SAT which was much longer and possibly even tougher? No. We did. Did you have a computer-based GRE exam that took 4 hours and got harder as you did better? No. We did. Did you have NCLB tests at all? No. We did. Did the government expect much of you? No. They make students into slaves today to try and catch up with China. And I guarantee you that from the late 80's, colleges got MUCH more selective. Years ago if you simply had money to attend the school and OK grades, you were admitted. Today if you don't have at least a 3.2 or 3.3 which is a very good GPA, you will be denied outright from many schools. Even at Stony Brook they're turning away students with 3.7's. You mean to tell me with a 3.7 in 1989 Stony Brook would say bye bye? No.

Quote from: LJSA on October 13, 2011, 01:17:14 AM

Not sure what decade you are referring to, but I graduated high school in 1989, and you definitely weren't getting into a great college with a 2.5. And passing at my high school was 75, not 65. And it wasn't shocking to receive a 300-question final exam, so I'm just going to have to laugh at the pressure today's students are under.

I also don't get how you can claim today's kids are smarter when the U.S. education system is so much worse today than in the past.

Believe me, I just graduated in 2009, yeah there may be more tests, but that doesn't necessarily make it harder. This kid is trying to make it sound like it's a grueling chore to pass high school these days. Yeah I may have gotten a little stressed out for some of the bigger tests, like the end of the year regents', but it's not like high school students 20 years ago didn't have final exams they got stressed out for too.

No one is saying it's hard to graduate, but I'm saying it IS much harder than it used to be for HS students as well as college students. They don't even know about the tests out there. Many colleges are receiving record amounts of applicants making it much harder to get in a good school. Also, there is a HUGE difference between a final and a government issued exam. The final exam is just a test where if you fail, it sucks but not that big a deal since you can make up for it with some papers or presentations you did good in. Government issued exams literally prevent you from moving to the next grade, drastically impacting your life and can hold you back from graduating even if you have a 4.0 GPA. The standards today are clearly without a question much higher. If you don't see that you must hate facts.