I'm worried - a look at the facts

In all seriousness, with a completely rationale mind (now a couple of days removed from Nuri's announcement) I am worried about our program.  We are in really, really bad shape.  Let's look at the facts of the last 6 months:

1. Polee transfers
2. Garett, Sampson, Pelle ruled ineligible (we only have 7 scholarship players; school announces player's may be eligible in Dec)
3. Coach announces leave of absence
4. Sampson and Pelle decommit
4. We lose the Kyle Sweeps
5. Gathers decommits
6. No communications of a LOI from our only current committed recruit, Wood
7. Coach returns, only to leave again
8. Nuri leaves team mid-season
9. We are on a losing streak
10.  Does Lav take the full year off?
11.  It's almost a guarantee that one of the current players will transfer at the end of the year.
12.  Oh, and the Big East is no longer the premier league in the nation

I don't know of any school in recent history to have gone through such a stretch of bad news.

Is this the beginning of the end for our program?  Can we recover?  Is any top 100 recruit going to commit to us given what's happened?  What are guys like Nuri, Polee, Pelle saying about our program behind-the-scenes?

I think this sets us back about 3 years.  And once the new Big East takes form, this won't get easier. 

I'm worried...

What should Pelle be saying about our program? I doubt it's as bad as anything I've said about him.
HE, not anyone else is responsible for where he is now. It has nothing to do with Rise or Chiles, or anyone else.

He needs to man up.

In all seriousness, with a completely rationale mind (now a couple of days removed from Nuri's announcement) I am worried about our program.  We are in really, really bad shape.  Let's look at the facts of the last 6 months:

1. Polee transfers
2. Garett, Sampson, Pelle ruled ineligible (we only have 7 scholarship players; school announces player's may be eligible in Dec)
3. Coach announces leave of absence
4. Sampson and Pelle decommit
4. We lose the Kyle Sweeps
5. Gathers decommits
6. No communications of a LOI from our only current committed recruit, Wood
7. Coach returns, only to leave again
8. Nuri leaves team mid-season
9. We are on a losing streak
10.  Does Lav take the full year off?
11.  It's almost a guarantee that one of the current players will transfer at the end of the year.
12.  Oh, and the Big East is no longer the premier league in the nation

I don't know of any school in recent history to have gone through such a stretch of bad news.

Is this the beginning of the end for our program?  Can we recover?  Is any top 100 recruit going to commit to us given what's happened?  What are guys like Nuri, Polee, Pelle saying about our program behind-the-scenes?

I think this sets us back about 3 years.  And once the new Big East takes form, this won't get easier. 

I'm worried...

It sets us back for sure, but no way dooms day. It was dooms day under Norm and the latter part of the Jarvis era. Yes Lavin needs to take a hit for some of this stuff but not enough to say it was all his fault.

Quote from: redmen4life on December 10, 2011, 11:21:37 AM

In all seriousness, with a completely rationale mind (now a couple of days removed from Nuri's announcement) I am worried about our program.  We are in really, really bad shape.  Let's look at the facts of the last 6 months:

1. Polee transfers
2. Garett, Sampson, Pelle ruled ineligible (we only have 7 scholarship players; school announces player's may be eligible in Dec)
3. Coach announces leave of absence
4. Sampson and Pelle decommit
4. We lose the Kyle Sweeps
5. Gathers decommits
6. No communications of a LOI from our only current committed recruit, Wood
7. Coach returns, only to leave again
8. Nuri leaves team mid-season
9. We are on a losing streak
10.  Does Lav take the full year off?
11.  It's almost a guarantee that one of the current players will transfer at the end of the year.
12.  Oh, and the Big East is no longer the premier league in the nation

I don't know of any school in recent history to have gone through such a stretch of bad news.

Is this the beginning of the end for our program?  Can we recover?  Is any top 100 recruit going to commit to us given what's happened?  What are guys like Nuri, Polee, Pelle saying about our program behind-the-scenes?

I think this sets us back about 3 years.  And once the new Big East takes form, this won't get easier. 

I'm worried...

It sets us back for sure, but no way dooms day. It was dooms day under Norm and the latter part of the Jarvis era. Yes Lavin needs to take a hit for some of this stuff but not enough to say it was all his fault.

Agree, tr.  Of course, Lavin should take a hit or two from this, but some forget he was in a position to restock an entire roster.  Not bring in 3 or 4 guys.  But, an entire roster.  I also don't believe it'll set us back 3 years.  This isn't college football nor have we gone on some kind of probation. 

I, fully believe to see us field an NCAA Tournament team a season from now. 

Quote from: sju89tr on December 10, 2011, 12:05:39 PM

Quote from: redmen4life on December 10, 2011, 11:21:37 AM

In all seriousness, with a completely rationale mind (now a couple of days removed from Nuri's announcement) I am worried about our program.  We are in really, really bad shape.  Let's look at the facts of the last 6 months:

1. Polee transfers
2. Garett, Sampson, Pelle ruled ineligible (we only have 7 scholarship players; school announces player's may be eligible in Dec)
3. Coach announces leave of absence
4. Sampson and Pelle decommit
4. We lose the Kyle Sweeps
5. Gathers decommits
6. No communications of a LOI from our only current committed recruit, Wood
7. Coach returns, only to leave again
8. Nuri leaves team mid-season
9. We are on a losing streak
10.  Does Lav take the full year off?
11.  It's almost a guarantee that one of the current players will transfer at the end of the year.
12.  Oh, and the Big East is no longer the premier league in the nation

I don't know of any school in recent history to have gone through such a stretch of bad news.

Is this the beginning of the end for our program?  Can we recover?  Is any top 100 recruit going to commit to us given what's happened?  What are guys like Nuri, Polee, Pelle saying about our program behind-the-scenes?

I think this sets us back about 3 years.  And once the new Big East takes form, this won't get easier. 

I'm worried...

It sets us back for sure, but no way dooms day. It was dooms day under Norm and the latter part of the Jarvis era. Yes Lavin needs to take a hit for some of this stuff but not enough to say it was all his fault.

Agree, tr.  Of course, Lavin should take a hit or two from this, but some forget he was in a position to restock an entire roster.  Not bring in 3 or 4 guys.  But, an entire roster.  I also don't believe it'll set us back 3 years.  This isn't college football nor have we gone on some kind of probation. 

I, fully believe to see us field an NCAA Tournament team a season from now.

We are a bubble team at worst next season, he needs 3-4 more players

In all seriousness, with a completely rationale mind (now a couple of days removed from Nuri's announcement) I am worried about our program.  We are in really, really bad shape.  Let's look at the facts of the last 6 months:

1. Polee transfers
2. Garett, Sampson, Pelle ruled ineligible (we only have 7 scholarship players; school announces player's may be eligible in Dec)
3. Coach announces leave of absence
4. Sampson and Pelle decommit
4. We lose the Kyle Sweeps
5. Gathers decommits
6. No communications of a LOI from our only current committed recruit, Wood
7. Coach returns, only to leave again
8. Nuri leaves team mid-season
9. We are on a losing streak
10.  Does Lav take the full year off?
11.  It's almost a guarantee that one of the current players will transfer at the end of the year.
12.  Oh, and the Big East is no longer the premier league in the nation

I don't know of any school in recent history to have gone through such a stretch of bad news.

Is this the beginning of the end for our program?  Can we recover?  Is any top 100 recruit going to commit to us given what's happened?  What are guys like Nuri, Polee, Pelle saying about our program behind-the-scenes?

I think this sets us back about 3 years.  And once the new Big East takes form, this won't get easier. 

I'm worried...

Comments like these would have gotten you blocked by OTIS on redmen.com as he did to Class of 72!

We have a sensational core and we get Amir coming this month.
We can also raid the juco and transfer markets to fill in the voids if need be.  We have what jucos want:  immediate pt for glaring holes.  The momentum is seriously against us, but if we can get that going the other way, we'll be more than fine.  The key will be securing Gathers or Sampson to go with Wood.

We have a sensational core and we get Amir coming this month.
We can also raid the juco and transfer markets to fill in the voids if need be.  We have what jucos want:  immediate pt for glaring holes.  The momentum is seriously against us, but if we can get that going the other way, we'll be more than fine.  The key will be securing Gathers or Sampson to go with Wood.

I never imagined we'd playing a must win against Fordham, but here we sit.

 We have 5 top 100 players on our roster for 2011. That's more than anyone expected for this class after norms departure. Anyone here would've taken that. Were being a bit greedy. We have a top 150 shooting guard who committed for 2012 who can't sign until april and still in contention with gathers who had to reclassify. No one expected the 2007 ohio state or fab five freshman class this year. Well be fine fellas.

I am far from an optimist. I also am worried. But one thing the Arizona and Texas AM games showed ,is we can play against quality compitition. Lets assume Nuri was a primadona with a bad attitude who disrupted the team chemistry. We are getting Garrett, a player w charecter. Cummings seem like he could give Gift and Harkless a breather and score some points. Maybe all is not lost and we may end up better then many people think. I do not have any idea who Lavin is talking about w his 6 players for next year,  Between our decommits ,who are still considering us, transfers, Juco,Chris O,verbals to other schools who will decommit and unsigned players, Lavin can get the job done. Lavin has to work on our needs, not just get bodies.

Fordham got crushed by Manhattan this week - I think we should be fine given what has happened.

I am worried about this year but not the future. As mentioned by many posters, Lavin had the undaunted task of filling an entire roster and he had to do it with no legging to stand.  We were an also ran in the college landscape to kids over the past decade.  He had to not only have kids believe in his philosophy but also believe we could be good with them on the court and he did that which is evident with the kids saying yes to us.  There were tons of schools after our kids and if they chose another, those schools would be dealing with their issues the way we are.  It looks a lot worse for us now cause we got all 3 so obviously we got shortnend of stick.  The Great thing is we have a ton of core talent and now the coaching staff can recruit like every other school where they need to fill holes to be a consistent winning program.  The holes we have are quite apparent but at least they are minimal when you compare trying to bring in a point guard and a few big bodies to trying to fill a starting 5 and a bench that can win in big east. My concerns now are I hate to see our school lose but Lavin can recruit and you can bet that these types of situations will happen again but when you have a full roster and lose a few(look at Kansas) we will have enough in the cubbard to keep fighting and keep winning. 

Last year he recruited top 150 players that projected to be 2-4 year players. This year we put all our eggs in for a potential one and done which we could not do last year.  The staff has a vision and I believe in it.  We are a year away just have to look at big picure.  For every one ineligible player, decommit and transfer the staff will have
Someone else ready to be in a sju uniform

Aint worried. Just gotta realize that the progress of the program gotta be pushed back a year.

Thing is this: Sit in a living room wit Steve Lavin and if you aint optimistic bout the program then you aint gonna be optimistic bout anytin.

He is the most impressive one-on-one recruiter I ever seen (and I seen Cal in two living rooms). He wows them on the couch. He remembers evrybody's name (EVRYBDY'S) and they affiliation like he Rainman or sometin. He knows more when he walk in that door than any coach. Knows the kid, his fams, his in-laws, his HS coach, his AAU coach, his assistant AAU coach, his dog, his iguana.

Lav aint gonna get evry kid (see Kyle). But he is the best closer I ever seen and I seen plenty. 

He luvs St. John. Luvs his colleagues. Luvs his secretary(s). Even luvs Aldo over at D'Angelo and I dont know why (just playin bre!). How many cafeteria workers you know get a Christmas card from a HC? He here fo the long haul cause fo the first time since Purdue he feels the family atmosphere that some y'all deride, but most y'all know make St. John a special place.

I remain,
Choz4Life

Aint worried. Just gotta realize that the progress of the program gotta be pushed back a year.

Thing is this: Sit in a living room wit Steve Lavin and if you aint optimistic bout the program then you aint gonna be optimistic bout anytin.

He is the most impressive one-on-one recruiter I ever seen (and I seen Cal in two living rooms). He wows them on the couch. He remembers evrybody's name (EVRYBDY'S) and they affiliation like he Rainman or sometin. He knows more when he walk in that door than any coach. Knows the kid, his fams, his in-laws, his HS coach, his AAU coach, his assistant AAU coach, his dog, his iguana.

Lav aint gonna get evry kid (see Kyle). But he is the best closer I ever seen and I seen plenty. 

He luvs St. John. Luvs his colleagues. Luvs his secretary(s). Even luvs Aldo over at D'Angelo and I dont know why (just playin bre!). How many cafeteria workers you know get a Christmas card from a HC? He here fo the long haul cause fo the first time since Purdue he feels the family atmosphere that some y'all deride, but most y'all know make St. John a special place.

I remain,
Choz4Life

Who has an iguana? haha

Aint worried. Just gotta realize that the progress of the program gotta be pushed back a year.

Thing is this: Sit in a living room wit Steve Lavin and if you aint optimistic bout the program then you aint gonna be optimistic bout anytin.

He is the most impressive one-on-one recruiter I ever seen (and I seen Cal in two living rooms). He wows them on the couch. He remembers evrybody's name (EVRYBDY'S) and they affiliation like he Rainman or sometin. He knows more when he walk in that door than any coach. Knows the kid, his fams, his in-laws, his HS coach, his AAU coach, his assistant AAU coach, his dog, his iguana.

Lav aint gonna get evry kid (see Kyle). But he is the best closer I ever seen and I seen plenty. 

He luvs St. John. Luvs his colleagues. Luvs his secretary(s). Even luvs Aldo over at D'Angelo and I dont know why (just playin bre!). How many cafeteria workers you know get a Christmas card from a HC? He here fo the long haul cause fo the first time since Purdue he feels the family atmosphere that some y'all deride, but most y'all know make St. John a special place.

I remain,
Choz4Life

Choz, your knowledge brightens this website and the St Johns basketball family 

Aint worried. Just gotta realize that the progress of the program gotta be pushed back a year.

Thing is this: Sit in a living room wit Steve Lavin and if you aint optimistic bout the program then you aint gonna be optimistic bout anytin.

He is the most impressive one-on-one recruiter I ever seen (and I seen Cal in two living rooms). He wows them on the couch. He remembers evrybody's name (EVRYBDY'S) and they affiliation like he Rainman or sometin. He knows more when he walk in that door than any coach. Knows the kid, his fams, his in-laws, his HS coach, his AAU coach, his assistant AAU coach, his dog, his iguana.

Lav aint gonna get evry kid (see Kyle). But he is the best closer I ever seen and I seen plenty. 

He luvs St. John. Luvs his colleagues. Luvs his secretary(s). Even luvs Aldo over at D'Angelo and I dont know why (just playin bre!). How many cafeteria workers you know get a Christmas card from a HC? He here fo the long haul cause fo the first time since Purdue he feels the family atmosphere that some y'all deride, but most y'all know make St. John a special place.

I remain,
Choz4Life

Could be my favorite most informative post from you yet and there have been a lot of them that I have liked

Aint worried. Just gotta realize that the progress of the program gotta be pushed back a year.

Thing is this: Sit in a living room wit Steve Lavin and if you aint optimistic bout the program then you aint gonna be optimistic bout anytin.

He is the most impressive one-on-one recruiter I ever seen (and I seen Cal in two living rooms). He wows them on the couch. He remembers evrybody's name (EVRYBDY'S) and they affiliation like he Rainman or sometin. He knows more when he walk in that door than any coach. Knows the kid, his fams, his in-laws, his HS coach, his AAU coach, his assistant AAU coach, his dog, his iguana.

Lav aint gonna get evry kid (see Kyle). But he is the best closer I ever seen and I seen plenty. 

He luvs St. John. Luvs his colleagues. Luvs his secretary(s). Even luvs Aldo over at D'Angelo and I dont know why (just playin bre!). How many cafeteria workers you know get a Christmas card from a HC? He here fo the long haul cause fo the first time since Purdue he feels the family atmosphere that some y'all deride, but most y'all know make St. John a special place.

I remain,
Choz4Life

This post just made my day.  Great call Choz. 

Aint worried. Just gotta realize that the progress of the program gotta be pushed back a year.

Thing is this: Sit in a living room wit Steve Lavin and if you aint optimistic bout the program then you aint gonna be optimistic bout anytin.

He is the most impressive one-on-one recruiter I ever seen (and I seen Cal in two living rooms). He wows them on the couch. He remembers evrybody's name (EVRYBDY'S) and they affiliation like he Rainman or sometin. He knows more when he walk in that door than any coach. Knows the kid, his fams, his in-laws, his HS coach, his AAU coach, his assistant AAU coach, his dog, his iguana.

Lav aint gonna get evry kid (see Kyle). But he is the best closer I ever seen and I seen plenty. 

He luvs St. John. Luvs his colleagues. Luvs his secretary(s). Even luvs Aldo over at D'Angelo and I dont know why (just playin bre!). How many cafeteria workers you know get a Christmas card from a HC? He here fo the long haul cause fo the first time since Purdue he feels the family atmosphere that some y'all deride, but most y'all know make St. John a special place.

I remain,
Choz4Life

+2

From first post:
"11.  It's almost a guarantee that one of the current players will transfer at the end of the year."
.
Is this speculation or has someone already indicated he is transferring? All of the kids are getting plenty of minutes and each seems to fit well into Lavin's system. IMO we will win our next three games and some of the optimism will return.

Aint worried. Just gotta realize that the progress of the program gotta be pushed back a year.

Thing is this: Sit in a living room wit Steve Lavin and if you aint optimistic bout the program then you aint gonna be optimistic bout anytin.

He is the most impressive one-on-one recruiter I ever seen (and I seen Cal in two living rooms). He wows them on the couch. He remembers evrybody's name (EVRYBDY'S) and they affiliation like he Rainman or sometin. He knows more when he walk in that door than any coach. Knows the kid, his fams, his in-laws, his HS coach, his AAU coach, his assistant AAU coach, his dog, his iguana.

Lav aint gonna get evry kid (see Kyle). But he is the best closer I ever seen and I seen plenty. 

He luvs St. John. Luvs his colleagues. Luvs his secretary(s). Even luvs Aldo over at D'Angelo and I dont know why (just playin bre!). How many cafeteria workers you know get a Christmas card from a HC? He here fo the long haul cause fo the first time since Purdue he feels the family atmosphere that some y'all deride, but most y'all know make St. John a special place.

I remain,
Choz4Life

Great post Choz.  I envy you that you have seen Lav in action.