Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2012, 11:39:09 PM »
Thanks Baldi everyone needed a good laugh.

Joel Wesler used to write for College Hoops Net. He's always put out these preseason rankings but adds little opinion during the season which is always questionable. He's also never seemed to move on to better things rather than right for meaningless blogs. However the preseason ranks has been his thing.

What do you think Joel should do with his time rather than doing these rankings? Thats the better question...
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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2012, 11:46:34 PM »
Damn Dave, badmouthing this kid?

Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2012, 10:01:12 AM »
Seeing as Dunn is out till midseason at best and Ledo is looking less and less likely to qualify I can't see Providence or Seton Hall finishing ahead of St. John's at 144 is way too low for the red storm. It has St. John's finishing 2nd to last in the conference ahead of just DePaul. There are always a lot of question marks in the middle of the BE and I think St. Johns is in that tough middle of Pitt, USF, Rutgers, and Villanova. I had Providence in this group with Dunn and Ledo, with out them They could fall to the bottom with Uconn, Seton Hall and DePaul. That 7-12 grouping is going to be a huge battle. I think the top 6 teams are locks for the NCAA and the next 6 will be battling it out for the last 2-3 spots in the NCAA tournament from the BE.

Hoya, who are your top 6 teams Big East?

Louisville
ND
Cuse
Gtown
Marquette
Cinicinnati

Moose

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2012, 12:06:27 PM »
Seeing as Dunn is out till midseason at best and Ledo is looking less and less likely to qualify I can't see Providence or Seton Hall finishing ahead of St. John's at 144 is way too low for the red storm. It has St. John's finishing 2nd to last in the conference ahead of just DePaul. There are always a lot of question marks in the middle of the BE and I think St. Johns is in that tough middle of Pitt, USF, Rutgers, and Villanova. I had Providence in this group with Dunn and Ledo, with out them They could fall to the bottom with Uconn, Seton Hall and DePaul. That 7-12 grouping is going to be a huge battle. I think the top 6 teams are locks for the NCAA and the next 6 will be battling it out for the last 2-3 spots in the NCAA tournament from the BE.

Hoya, who are your top 6 teams Big East?

Louisville
ND
Cuse
Gtown
Marquette
Cinicinnati

Am I allowed to say I agree with 4-5 of those 6 or would I be egging him on ;)
Remember who broke the Slice news

boo3

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2012, 01:17:06 PM »
Seeing as Dunn is out till midseason at best and Ledo is looking less and less likely to qualify I can't see Providence or Seton Hall finishing ahead of St. John's at 144 is way too low for the red storm. It has St. John's finishing 2nd to last in the conference ahead of just DePaul. There are always a lot of question marks in the middle of the BE and I think St. Johns is in that tough middle of Pitt, USF, Rutgers, and Villanova. I had Providence in this group with Dunn and Ledo, with out them They could fall to the bottom with Uconn, Seton Hall and DePaul. That 7-12 grouping is going to be a huge battle. I think the top 6 teams are locks for the NCAA and the next 6 will be battling it out for the last 2-3 spots in the NCAA tournament from the BE.

Hoya, who are your top 6 teams Big East?

Louisville
ND
Cuse
Gtown
Marquette
Cinicinnati

Am I allowed to say I agree with 4-5 of those 6 or would I be egging him on ;)

Lol! Let me guess, you're replacing Georgetown with St. John's. :)

Moose

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2012, 01:53:00 PM »
Seeing as Dunn is out till midseason at best and Ledo is looking less and less likely to qualify I can't see Providence or Seton Hall finishing ahead of St. John's at 144 is way too low for the red storm. It has St. John's finishing 2nd to last in the conference ahead of just DePaul. There are always a lot of question marks in the middle of the BE and I think St. Johns is in that tough middle of Pitt, USF, Rutgers, and Villanova. I had Providence in this group with Dunn and Ledo, with out them They could fall to the bottom with Uconn, Seton Hall and DePaul. That 7-12 grouping is going to be a huge battle. I think the top 6 teams are locks for the NCAA and the next 6 will be battling it out for the last 2-3 spots in the NCAA tournament from the BE.

Hoya, who are your top 6 teams Big East?

Louisville
ND
Cuse
Gtown
Marquette
Cinicinnati

Am I allowed to say I agree with 4-5 of those 6 or would I be egging him on ;)

Lol! Let me guess, you're replacing Georgetown with St. John's. :)

No actually.  I think Gtown will be good this year.  I have nothing against them at all.

Out of that list Cincy I'm most skeptical about.  And I'm not as high on ND as others are.
Remember who broke the Slice news

Poison

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2012, 02:08:18 PM »
Georgetown is good every year.

Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2012, 03:59:53 PM »
Seeing as Dunn is out till midseason at best and Ledo is looking less and less likely to qualify I can't see Providence or Seton Hall finishing ahead of St. John's at 144 is way too low for the red storm. It has St. John's finishing 2nd to last in the conference ahead of just DePaul. There are always a lot of question marks in the middle of the BE and I think St. Johns is in that tough middle of Pitt, USF, Rutgers, and Villanova. I had Providence in this group with Dunn and Ledo, with out them They could fall to the bottom with Uconn, Seton Hall and DePaul. That 7-12 grouping is going to be a huge battle. I think the top 6 teams are locks for the NCAA and the next 6 will be battling it out for the last 2-3 spots in the NCAA tournament from the BE.

Hoya, who are your top 6 teams Big East?

Louisville
ND
Cuse
Gtown
Marquette
Cinicinnati

Am I allowed to say I agree with 4-5 of those 6 or would I be egging him on ;)

Lol! Let me guess, you're replacing Georgetown with St. John's. :)

No actually.  I think Gtown will be good this year.  I have nothing against them at all.

Out of that list Cincy I'm most skeptical about.  And I'm not as high on ND as others are.

Sure I understand concerns about Cinci, but what don't you like about ND? They return everyone from last years team that finished 3rd in the BE and brought in a good player in Cameron Biedscheid.

Moose

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2012, 04:12:24 PM »
Seeing as Dunn is out till midseason at best and Ledo is looking less and less likely to qualify I can't see Providence or Seton Hall finishing ahead of St. John's at 144 is way too low for the red storm. It has St. John's finishing 2nd to last in the conference ahead of just DePaul. There are always a lot of question marks in the middle of the BE and I think St. Johns is in that tough middle of Pitt, USF, Rutgers, and Villanova. I had Providence in this group with Dunn and Ledo, with out them They could fall to the bottom with Uconn, Seton Hall and DePaul. That 7-12 grouping is going to be a huge battle. I think the top 6 teams are locks for the NCAA and the next 6 will be battling it out for the last 2-3 spots in the NCAA tournament from the BE.

Hoya, who are your top 6 teams Big East?

Louisville
ND
Cuse
Gtown
Marquette
Cinicinnati

Am I allowed to say I agree with 4-5 of those 6 or would I be egging him on ;)

Lol! Let me guess, you're replacing Georgetown with St. John's. :)

No actually.  I think Gtown will be good this year.  I have nothing against them at all.

Out of that list Cincy I'm most skeptical about.  And I'm not as high on ND as others are.

Sure I understand concerns about Cinci, but what don't you like about ND? They return everyone from last years team that finished 3rd in the BE and brought in a good player in Cameron Biedscheid.

They weren't that deep last year and didn't bring in enough to strengthen that area.  Plus the seem to follow up overachieving (last year) with disappointment.  I posted my predictions (general) on one of our boards awhile back.  Pretty sure I just had them a little bit lower than that top tier so to speak.
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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2012, 05:29:52 PM »
Georgetown is good every year.

Georgetown has finished in the top 6 in the BE once in the last 4 years, JTIII's finished in the top 6 once with his own players.  I don't think anyone expected them to lose Hollis Thompson to the draft and I think that'll hurt.  One could pick apart Hoyahooligan's assessment of their guards more easily than one should be able to pick apart STJ's returning guards.  Dlo is the only player on either team who got any post season awards last year.  But there is that gaping chasm between #37 and #52 rankings on RSCI to think of.  (Rolls Eyes).   In his games Branch averaged more boards and more assists than Starks last year in 20% less minutes per game.  Small sample size but still with no one in GTowns backcourt coming close to Dlo so I would rank STJ's guards just a little bit better for now.  It doesn't matter anyway.  What matters is that first practice is less than two months away.





Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2012, 09:16:11 PM »
Georgetown is good every year.

Georgetown has finished in the top 6 in the BE once in the last 4 years, JTIII's finished in the top 6 once with his own players.  I don't think anyone expected them to lose Hollis Thompson to the draft and I think that'll hurt.  One could pick apart Hoyahooligan's assessment of their guards more easily than one should be able to pick apart STJ's returning guards.  Dlo is the only player on either team who got any post season awards last year.  But there is that gaping chasm between #37 and #52 rankings on RSCI to think of.  (Rolls Eyes).   In his games Branch averaged more boards and more assists than Starks last year in 20% less minutes per game.  Small sample size but still with no one in GTowns backcourt coming close to Dlo so I would rank STJ's guards just a little bit better for now.  It doesn't matter anyway.  What matters is that first practice is less than two months away.

Actually every one knew Hollis Thompson was leaving after this year. He tested the waters the year before. We knew he was gone before last season started.

As for Georgetown we've been in the top 10 of the polls every year since 2006-2007. Not all of the years have ended in success, but we're a top 25 team year in and year out. We've only missed the NCAA's 1 time outside of JT3's first year. He's also only finished outside the top 8 of the BE 1 time at Georgetown.

Also love the argument of nothing until 2008-9 counts because they weren't "his" players. Even though those players (the one's you're referring to presumably being Hibbert and Green since Wallace was his recruit as were all the other important players on the 07 and the 08 teams) were coached exclusively by JT3. If a coach succeeds with players recruited by the previous coaching staff then it doesn't count and if a coaches fails fans also say it doesn't count because they weren't his players. So you're saying coaching doesn't matter at all. I guess Lavin deserves no praise for his first season after all they weren't his players. And St. John's results last year were all on lavin even though Dunlap did the in game coaching. After all Lavin recruited them it doesn't matter who coaches them.

Otto Porter was named a Freshman All-American by the national Press. It's not his fault that the BE coaches were too stupid to put him on the All Freshman team despite him being one of the best freshman in the nation not just the conference: http://www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032912aaa.html

Not sure why you felt the need to attack Georgetown in this thread.

Poison

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2012, 12:46:22 AM »
Georgetown is good every year.

Georgetown has finished in the top 6 in the BE once in the last 4 years, JTIII's finished in the top 6 once with his own
players.  I don't think anyone expected them to lose Hollis Thompson to the draft and I think that'll hurt.  One could pick apart Hoyahooligan's assessment of their guards more easily than one should be able to pick apart STJ's returning guards.  Dlo is the only player on either team who got any post season awards last year.  But there is that gaping chasm between #37 and #52 rankings on RSCI to think of.  (Rolls Eyes).   In his games Branch averaged more boards and more assists than Starks last year in 20% less minutes per game.  Small sample size but still with no one in GTowns backcourt coming close to Dlo so I would rank STJ's guards just a little bit better for now.  It doesn't matter anyway.  What matters is that first practice is less than two months away.


Have you been self medicating? They are always good. There are 64 teams that are good every year. Georgetown is one of them. Who gives a F where they finish in the BE? They dance. Nothing else matters.

Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2012, 02:05:21 AM »
Why is everyone so high on Cincy, am I missing something with them?

Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2012, 09:25:59 AM »
Why is everyone so high on Cincy, am I missing something with them?

They're coming off the sweet 16. Yes they lose two important pieces in Yates and Dixon, but they return everyone else from that team including Sean Kilpatrick one of four players who return from the non freshman all BE teams.(Kilpatrick 2nd team, Cooley 2nd team, Council 3rd team, Melvin honorable mention). 

Obviously there are questions about the team, but there's plenty of talent also.

MCNPA

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2012, 09:53:30 AM »
I'm not sold on Georgetown being good enough to stay in that top 7 this year.  They are certainly always competitive, but with some big losses and a lot of question marks in the backcourt, it's hard to be confident about them being able to supplant in a deep league.  Cincy I'm skeptical about their frintcourt, but their backcourt is arguably the best in the big east.   They have enough talent at the forward spots to be top 7.  Notre dame will be there as well as they have a ton coming back.  Luckily, sju has had notre Dame's number for the past 5 years but the rest of the league is still troubled by the "burn" offense.

I put sju in that top 7-8 because we have lots of experience returning at 5 spots on the floor and more than double the roster with talent.   We're simply too deep and talented.  I think we'll have a solid season.

Foad

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2012, 09:56:27 AM »
I guess Lavin deserves no praise for his first season after all they weren't his players.

TGAPL is given complete credit for winning with the former coach's recruits - his only winning season since 2002. With his own players since then he's 23-38. For that he takes no blame. You're either a believer or you're not.

Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2012, 01:30:33 PM »
I'm not sold on Georgetown being good enough to stay in that top 7 this year.  They are certainly always competitive, but with some big losses and a lot of question marks in the backcourt, it's hard to be confident about them being able to supplant in a deep league.  Cincy I'm skeptical about their frintcourt, but their backcourt is arguably the best in the big east.   They have enough talent at the forward spots to be top 7.  Notre dame will be there as well as they have a ton coming back.  Luckily, sju has had notre Dame's number for the past 5 years but the rest of the league is still troubled by the "burn" offense.

I put sju in that top 7-8 because we have lots of experience returning at 5 spots on the floor and more than double the roster with talent.   We're simply too deep and talented.  I think we'll have a solid season.

And you're more than entitled to your opinion. I think Georgetown is too deep and too talented to fall out of the top 7. We obviously are going to believe in our teams. I think St. John's will be much improved this year and be a bubble team. But at this point it's speculation. No one really knows at this point in the year. There will always be teams that surprise and there will be teams that disappoint. It's impossible to say what players will do on the court next year. We don't know how much players will improve, who will take a step back, or who will be injured. We like to talk in definites when we're making these predictions, but none of us really know nor are any of us unbiased.   

MCNPA

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2012, 01:47:45 PM »
I'm not sold on Georgetown being good enough to stay in that top 7 this year.  They are certainly always competitive, but with some big losses and a lot of question marks in the backcourt, it's hard to be confident about them being able to supplant in a deep league.  Cincy I'm skeptical about their frintcourt, but their backcourt is arguably the best in the big east.   They have enough talent at the forward spots to be top 7.  Notre dame will be there as well as they have a ton coming back.  Luckily, sju has had notre Dame's number for the past 5 years but the rest of the league is still troubled by the "burn" offense.

I put sju in that top 7-8 because we have lots of experience returning at 5 spots on the floor and more than double the roster with talent.   We're simply too deep and talented.  I think we'll have a solid season.

And you're more than entitled to your opinion. I think Georgetown is too deep and too talented to fall out of the top 7. We obviously are going to believe in our teams. I think St. John's will be much improved this year and be a bubble team. But at this point it's speculation. No one really knows at this point in the year. There will always be teams that surprise and there will be teams that disappoint. It's impossible to say what players will do on the court next year. We don't know how much players will improve, who will take a step back, or who will be injured. We like to talk in definites when we're making these predictions, but none of us really know nor are any of us unbiased.

Georgetown loses Hollis Tompson, Sims and Clark.  Those 3 were not only the leaders in points, but in just about every other stat.  Those were the only 3 that were double-digit scorers on the average and georgetown loses nearly 40ppg scoring with those 3.  I could keep going, but aside from Porter, Georgetown loses most of what made them decent last year.  Not only that, Lubick can't replace Sims in the least and Georetown has zero returning talent of significance in the backcourt. 

I'm just saying that it is a real stretch considering that Georgetown's starting roster was essentially decimated from last season.  Porter is certainly a super talented player, but not sure enough talent back to expect them to be top 7. 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 01:48:50 PM by MCNPA »

Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2012, 09:57:08 PM »
I'm not sold on Georgetown being good enough to stay in that top 7 this year.  They are certainly always competitive, but with some big losses and a lot of question marks in the backcourt, it's hard to be confident about them being able to supplant in a deep league.  Cincy I'm skeptical about their frintcourt, but their backcourt is arguably the best in the big east.   They have enough talent at the forward spots to be top 7.  Notre dame will be there as well as they have a ton coming back.  Luckily, sju has had notre Dame's number for the past 5 years but the rest of the league is still troubled by the "burn" offense.

I put sju in that top 7-8 because we have lots of experience returning at 5 spots on the floor and more than double the roster with talent.   We're simply too deep and talented.  I think we'll have a solid season.

And you're more than entitled to your opinion. I think Georgetown is too deep and too talented to fall out of the top 7. We obviously are going to believe in our teams. I think St. John's will be much improved this year and be a bubble team. But at this point it's speculation. No one really knows at this point in the year. There will always be teams that surprise and there will be teams that disappoint. It's impossible to say what players will do on the court next year. We don't know how much players will improve, who will take a step back, or who will be injured. We like to talk in definites when we're making these predictions, but none of us really know nor are any of us unbiased.

Georgetown loses Hollis Tompson, Sims and Clark.  Those 3 were not only the leaders in points, but in just about every other stat.  Those were the only 3 that were double-digit scorers on the average and georgetown loses nearly 40ppg scoring with those 3.  I could keep going, but aside from Porter, Georgetown loses most of what made them decent last year.  Not only that, Lubick can't replace Sims in the least and Georetown has zero returning talent of significance in the backcourt. 

I'm just saying that it is a real stretch considering that Georgetown's starting roster was essentially decimated from last season.  Porter is certainly a super talented player, but not sure enough talent back to expect them to be top 7.

Yet as some have noted in this thread we have new people step up each year and keep us in the NCAAs. Who outside of Georgetown Fans thought Henry Sims was going to do anything? Hmm? No one. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean the talent isn't there.

Otto Porter is being discussed as an All-American.
Nate Lubick was a top 50 recruit, Starks was a top 100 recruit, DSR is a top 50 recruit, Domingo is a top 50 recruit, Hopkins was a top 100 recruit. There's plenty of talent there.

Last year we lost Austin Freeman, Chris Wright, and Julian Vaughn. Those were arguably bigger losses. We lose people but we have the people to step into their shoes and fill their roles.

This team is going to build off their defense just like last year. We're incredibly long and will likely start 4 players 6'8" or taller.



MCNPA

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Re: Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2012, 12:05:48 AM »
I'm not sold on Georgetown being good enough to stay in that top 7 this year.  They are certainly always competitive, but with some big losses and a lot of question marks in the backcourt, it's hard to be confident about them being able to supplant in a deep league.  Cincy I'm skeptical about their frintcourt, but their backcourt is arguably the best in the big east.   They have enough talent at the forward spots to be top 7.  Notre dame will be there as well as they have a ton coming back.  Luckily, sju has had notre Dame's number for the past 5 years but the rest of the league is still troubled by the "burn" offense.

I put sju in that top 7-8 because we have lots of experience returning at 5 spots on the floor and more than double the roster with talent.   We're simply too deep and talented.  I think we'll have a solid season.

And you're more than entitled to your opinion. I think Georgetown is too deep and too talented to fall out of the top 7. We obviously are going to believe in our teams. I think St. John's will be much improved this year and be a bubble team. But at this point it's speculation. No one really knows at this point in the year. There will always be teams that surprise and there will be teams that disappoint. It's impossible to say what players will do on the court next year. We don't know how much players will improve, who will take a step back, or who will be injured. We like to talk in definites when we're making these predictions, but none of us really know nor are any of us unbiased.

Georgetown loses Hollis Tompson, Sims and Clark.  Those 3 were not only the leaders in points, but in just about every other stat.  Those were the only 3 that were double-digit scorers on the average and georgetown loses nearly 40ppg scoring with those 3.  I could keep going, but aside from Porter, Georgetown loses most of what made them decent last year.  Not only that, Lubick can't replace Sims in the least and Georetown has zero returning talent of significance in the backcourt. 

I'm just saying that it is a real stretch considering that Georgetown's starting roster was essentially decimated from last season.  Porter is certainly a super talented player, but not sure enough talent back to expect them to be top 7.

Yet as some have noted in this thread we have new people step up each year and keep us in the NCAAs. Who outside of Georgetown Fans thought Henry Sims was going to do anything? Hmm? No one. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean the talent isn't there.

Otto Porter is being discussed as an All-American.
Nate Lubick was a top 50 recruit, Starks was a top 100 recruit, DSR is a top 50 recruit, Domingo is a top 50 recruit, Hopkins was a top 100 recruit. There's plenty of talent there.

Last year we lost Austin Freeman, Chris Wright, and Julian Vaughn. Those were arguably bigger losses. We lose people but we have the people to step into their shoes and fill their roles.

This team is going to build off their defense just like last year. We're incredibly long and will likely start 4 players 6'8" or taller.

We'll see.  I think backcourt has many more question marks this year.  In addition, Lubick isn't muck but Porter will help offset his deficiencies.  I agree, Porter is a special player.  Love Otto Porter.   DAngerous and long.  Was imo g-towns most impressive player even last season despite him not leading in stats.  Without a doubt, he's first team All Big East talent.