Best backcourt in Big East?

Dont think Branch + Harrison would yet be considered top 5 in BE.
Because of our youth & new players- dont care where were rated now-only next march

Branch is unproven & Harrison's stats were inflated last year.

Inflated?
Oy vey

Quote from: Gray Chudney on August 15, 2012, 02:51:07 PM

Quote from: hoyahooligan on August 15, 2012, 02:01:33 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 14, 2012, 09:47:37 PM

Quote from: hoyahooligan on August 14, 2012, 09:37:39 PM

Georgetown's back court will surprise people this year.

Markel Starks 6'2" is going to be a consistent scoring threat rather than hit or miss like he was last year.
D'Vauntes Smith Rivera 6'3" is instant offense. Great Scorer. He's similar to Austin Freeman but shorter and a better handle.
Jabril Trawick 6'5"  has improved his handle and play making skills.
6'8" Greg Whittington has a good chance of being the starting SG. He played there plenty last year and looks even better this year.

I think ND, Louisville will be other top back courts.

I'm not a fan of marquette's back court outside of Mayo who they just got back from suspension.

The BE is loaded at guard especially PG. Everyone has a good to very good PG except for Seton Hall. They're literally the only team in the BE with out a quality PG.

Any thoughts on our backcourt?
Or just feedback on the rest of the BE

Well if you want my opinion you're not going to like it.

I'm not a huge fan of your back court. A large portion of that is because I know nothing about the quality of Branch.
Not a fan of Greene and I think Harrison is a good player but a little overrated. But I'm sure that opinion is biased by his poor performance in his first game against Georgetown Last year (5pts on 1-12 shooting).  Just seems like a high volume scorer. Definitely a quality player but not as amazing as many here seem to think.

Is Balamou expected to contribute at all?


It's obviously very hard to know because you guys know your team and their development better than I do. I just don't like your back court that much in terms of being one of the best in the BE.

Obviously No one's going to like this opinion, but you asked.

I think there are only 4 PGs in the big east that were ranked higher at their position as hs recruits (according to ESPN) - siva, arcidiacono (nova), james robinson (pitt), and kris dunn (prov)... and three of them are freshmen.

We don't really know what Branch will be like either since we haven't seen him.  But, on paper, Branch plus Harrison is undoubtedly top half of the conference.

Nice post Chudney.   I think this is a very balanced view.
I'd agree, on paper Harrison and Branch have to be seen as top half of the conference.  Untill proven otherwise.

But it's also true that Branch is largely an unknown to us.     He played 11 games for A&M, and had 5 steals and 30 assists.   Sorry, but that's not a big enough sample size for me.   He could be very talented yet, but we're estimating his value almost entirely off his high school resume right now. 

Like almost every player on our roster other than D'angelo... Branch has some proving to do.

Here is some interesting analysis.
Compare Branch's first however many games and of course MPG to Greene maybe.  Or even our 'PG' Nuri.

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

Impossible to put the backcourt towards the middle/bottom of the league when 1/2 of our backcourt (ie Harrison) is arguably in the top 2 at his position in the league this season.  And Greene is far from the worst PG.  we add a top notch transfer in Branch and I see no possibility that our backcourt is at the button of the league.

Quote from: desco80 on August 15, 2012, 03:25:51 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on August 15, 2012, 02:51:07 PM

Quote from: hoyahooligan on August 15, 2012, 02:01:33 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 14, 2012, 09:47:37 PM

Quote from: hoyahooligan on August 14, 2012, 09:37:39 PM

Georgetown's back court will surprise people this year.

Markel Starks 6'2" is going to be a consistent scoring threat rather than hit or miss like he was last year.
D'Vauntes Smith Rivera 6'3" is instant offense. Great Scorer. He's similar to Austin Freeman but shorter and a better handle.
Jabril Trawick 6'5"  has improved his handle and play making skills.
6'8" Greg Whittington has a good chance of being the starting SG. He played there plenty last year and looks even better this year.

I think ND, Louisville will be other top back courts.

I'm not a fan of marquette's back court outside of Mayo who they just got back from suspension.

The BE is loaded at guard especially PG. Everyone has a good to very good PG except for Seton Hall. They're literally the only team in the BE with out a quality PG.

Any thoughts on our backcourt?
Or just feedback on the rest of the BE

Well if you want my opinion you're not going to like it.

I'm not a huge fan of your back court. A large portion of that is because I know nothing about the quality of Branch.
Not a fan of Greene and I think Harrison is a good player but a little overrated. But I'm sure that opinion is biased by his poor performance in his first game against Georgetown Last year (5pts on 1-12 shooting).  Just seems like a high volume scorer. Definitely a quality player but not as amazing as many here seem to think.

Is Balamou expected to contribute at all?


It's obviously very hard to know because you guys know your team and their development better than I do. I just don't like your back court that much in terms of being one of the best in the BE.

Obviously No one's going to like this opinion, but you asked.

I think there are only 4 PGs in the big east that were ranked higher at their position as hs recruits (according to ESPN) - siva, arcidiacono (nova), james robinson (pitt), and kris dunn (prov)... and three of them are freshmen.

We don't really know what Branch will be like either since we haven't seen him.  But, on paper, Branch plus Harrison is undoubtedly top half of the conference.

Nice post Chudney.   I think this is a very balanced view.
I'd agree, on paper Harrison and Branch have to be seen as top half of the conference.  Untill proven otherwise.

But it's also true that Branch is largely an unknown to us.     He played 11 games for A&M, and had 5 steals and 30 assists.   Sorry, but that's not a big enough sample size for me.   He could be very talented yet, but we're estimating his value almost entirely off his high school resume right now. 

Like almost every player on our roster other than D'angelo... Branch has some proving to do.

Here is some interesting analysis.
Compare Branch's first however many games and of course MPG to Greene maybe.  Or even our 'PG' Nuri.

Ask and you shall receive...

Lindsey (9 games)  Min-29.5  Fg% .468  3p%-0       FT%.578  Reb-4.9  Ast-2.8  Stl-1.4   To-4.1  Pts-12.4
Branch (11 games) Min- 19.1 Fg% .404  3p%-.333  FT%.429  Reb-2.4  Ast-2.5  Stl-.4     To-2.2  Pts-4.4
Phil (1st 11 games) Min-27.5 Fg% .367  3p%-.284  FT%.744  Reb-2.9  Ast-2.2  Stl-1.1   To-1.4  Pts- 6.0

I used Phil's shooting %'s from the full season, because I didn't have the time to do the math.   Presumably his first 10 games of college were slightly lower. 

But that gives us a good comparison.   
In their first 10 or so games of college Branch played less minutes than our two "pgs", but even still, didn't really stand out from either Phil or Lindsey.   Arguably in a different system and with more pt he would have put up better numbers.   But there's not much (to this point at least) to suggest he's a significantly better player than the other two.

It'd be stupid to draw too many conclusions from this - but it's interesting to note.

Are you sure Nuri's 3 pt % was 0. Would have thought it was more like 50%.

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Hill was excellent when healthy before his injury.  Very dangerous player.  Jackson wasn't great as a freshman and rest of team as well as coaching stunk.  If we had a healthy Darryl Hill with a legit coach and surrounding cast, things would have been much different.  Doesn't take away from how good Hill was when healthy. 

Those write ups look at us and see last years 6-man team of all freshmen.  This year we return 5 of those guys as sophs and enter 12 deep with legit scholarship players.  To put things into perspective, lastyear our 7th man was Jamal White.  This year our 7th man might be Sir'Dom Pointer, Orlando Sanchez, or a number of other top 70 players.  We a long way from last year and I think that last season we were 2 guys away from maybe 4 more wins.  The fact that we almost beat Duke at Cameron with 5 freshmen on the court should tell you something. 

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 08:27:45 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 08:31:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 08:27:45 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 09:52:44 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 08:31:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 08:27:45 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 09:59:27 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 09:52:44 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 08:31:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 08:27:45 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

Well, Branch is not really a complete unknown. We know he is a top 75 recruit, that's pretty good. Yes, only one "proven" player. But that one proven player is really, really good. Add a more than capable backup combo guard Phil Greene, who will now get to play more of his natural position, and you've got yourself a top half BE backcourt.

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 09:59:27 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 09:52:44 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 08:31:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 08:27:45 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

So first Harrison was overrated to you.  Now he's proven.  Branch is a Top 50 player.  Does that guarantee success? No.  But you have to go in with the mindset that he's a Top 50 player.  And please do not bring up him transferring without first looking at why he did and the extenuating circumstances.

Then Greene was unimpressive?  He was the lowest recruit we had coming in, played major minutes out of position admirably and played above his 'ranking'.  And Branch isn't coming in cold off the street.  He practiced the entire 2nd semester and its no coincidence Greene's play picked up once he was practicing vs. Branch because we couldnt play 5 on 5 prior.

I don't have all the backcourts in front of me but I still stand by top half of the conference.

I think it's tough to answer this question in the summer.   Too much unknown at this point.

Who starts opposite Triche for Syracuse?    Does Ledo make it on the court with Council?   etc 

There are questions like these for half the teams in the league.   

Carter Williams

I would say as of now Ledo is a no.  If it changes it changes.

Quote from: desco80 on August 15, 2012, 11:29:35 PM

I think it's tough to answer this question in the summer.   Too much unknown at this point.

Who starts opposite Triche for Syracuse?    Does Ledo make it on the court with Council?   etc 

There are questions like these for half the teams in the league.   

Carter Williams

I would say as of now Ledo is a no.  If it changes it changes.

I don't know how I forgot MCW, but anyway...

If you were going to make the argument that Harrison and Branch/Greene aren't in the top half I'm guessing it'd go like this...
15 teams in the league, here are 7 you could argue are a step above ours... 

Syracuse - Triche/Carter Williams
Uconn - Boatright, Calhoun, Napier
ND - Naughton, Grant
Lousiville - Siva, Smith
PC - Council, Ledo/Dunn
Marquette - Cadougan, Blue, Mayo
Cinn - Kilpatrick, Cashmere


 I would say we compare very favorably to some of these teams, and unlike Louisville and ND who have proven post players they need to feed the ball to, our guards (especially D'angelo) will probably do the bulk of the scoring. 
We're top half.

If you were going to make the argument that Harrison and Branch/Greene aren't in the top half I'm guessing it'd go like this...
15 teams in the league, here are 7 you could argue are a step above ours... 

Syracuse - Triche/Carter Williams
Uconn - Boatright, Calhoun, Napier
ND - Naughton, Grant
Lousiville - Siva, Smith
PC - Council, Ledo/Dunn
Marquette - Cadougan, Blue, Mayo
Cinn - Kilpatrick, Cashmere


 I would say we compare very favorably to some of these teams, and unlike Louisville and ND who have proven post players they need to feed the ball to, our guards (especially D'angelo) will probably do the bulk of the scoring. 
We're top half.

Thanks for pulling some together.  I was too tired to try.

LVILLE
CUSE
UCONN

Are without question better.

PC if they get LEDO are also better OR if they have a healthy Dunn.  Otherwise move along.

ND I'm not so crazy about.  I like Marquette's but think were pretty much even with them.  And as for Cincy I prefer Green to Cashmere but Cash is more experienced.  Kilpatrick and Dee are a wash.

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 09:59:27 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 09:52:44 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 08:31:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 08:27:45 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 15, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on August 15, 2012, 04:49:49 PM

I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.

No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

Lol... I'd rank Georgetown near last.  You are touting Markel Starks who averaged a non-existent 1.5 and 0.7 per game.  You then go to a guy in Smith-Rivera who hasn't played a game yet and then hang your hat on Whittington, a 6'8 220lb forward who has zero shot in hell at playing the SG spot.  Oh BTW, Trawick isn't near a SG either.   Georgetown returns exactly 1.5 and 0.7 En totale' in the backcourt yet you have the nerve to call Phil Greene unimpressive.  Effing joke.  If you had mentioned Domingo, maybe I'd have taken you seriously as he's a real talent with a shot at backcourt play,  but if Georgetown surprises, it certainly will be with new players as there is nobody returning In the backcourt that was "impressive".