General recruiting question...

Do you consider it a red flag if a prospect's high school team has only an average or even bad record?

With the level St. Johns is now recruiting at, I do.   Even tho I'm a  well-known "stats-guy",  I try to look at at ALL the stats, not just the individual ones.   I really think that an "elite" high school talent - and that's what we are now targeting -  should guarantee an excellent team record at the high school level.  They should have that kind of "impact" just to qualify as "elite" - no matter how big the individual stats are.    Was looking back at some of our recruits - the year Norvel Pelle was ranked by one site as the #1 center prospect in the country, his HS team, Price High in Compton, CA  lost EIGHT games.    Does it say something if you've supposedly got the best center in the country and can't beat Inglewood or La Canada High School?  In that same class we got Amir, who went from being a stat stuffing POY at Luezinger High School, to an uncomplaining, do-anything-to-win 6th man on a Loaded Findlay Prep team as a Senior.   No question in my mind which player I'd rather have...

When you're a team struggling with recruiting, yes - if someone shows the talent to put up numbers for you, you grab him if you can, and hope you can teach a "championship mindset".   But when you've reached the point of achieving high level recruiting,  do you concentrate on those players that already HAVE that mindset?

Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were very good players who came from bad teams. Team success is due to the right mix of players. In some cases, you may have compilers, but I don't think you can paint everyone with the same brush.

On while we are on the subject, Tarik Turner played for Oak Hill and Eugene Lawrence player for Lincoln. It didn't have an impact the college level.

Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were very good players who came from bad teams. Team success is due to the right mix of players. In some cases, you may have compilers, but I don't think you can paint everyone with the same brush.

On while we are on the subject, Tarik Turner played for Oak Hill and Eugene Lawrence player for Lincoln. It didn't have an impact the college level.

Uh, Garnett's Farragut Academy team went 28-2 his senior year.  Ray Allen's Hillcrest High School won the South Carolina State Championship.    And while Inglewood High has fallen on hard times recently pretty sure they did just fine when Pierce was there.

Quote from: Poison on September 09, 2012, 07:50:16 PM

Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were very good players who came from bad teams. Team success is due to the right mix of players. In some cases, you may have compilers, but I don't think you can paint everyone with the same brush.

On while we are on the subject, Tarik Turner played for Oak Hill and Eugene Lawrence player for Lincoln. It didn't have an impact the college level.

Uh, Garnett's Farragut Academy team went 28-2 his senior year.  Ray Allen's Hillcrest High School won the South Carolina State Championship.    And while Inglewood High has fallen on hard times recently pretty sure they did just fine when Pierce was there.

I'm sorry if that was unclear. I used those players as examples of guys who played on poor teams. The Timberwolves are a poor team. So were the Celtics. In the right situation those guys excelled. The point I'm making takes high school/college/nba outbid the equation. It's a theory.

Every situation is different.

You do realize CR was talking about recruiting, not college or NBA so you points are moot, right?

Back to the actual topic I'm sure there's something to your theory, CR, however if that were the case then it would no doubt be attributed to poor coaching by both the players and the recruiters.  If guys get ranked that high despite losing so much then there are obviously flaws somewhere unless they are playing very high competition night in and night out, like top city divisions or NEPSAC.  But there's few coaches around who don't think they can improve a monster atheletes focus, effort or fundamentals.  And when they fail that's when the player gets blamed.

There is nothing to that theory. It's a team game.

I don't think it's a huge red flag. Of course every situation is different, and a lot of factors have to be taken into account. For example the quality of the team as a whole, the level of competition in their league, quality of the high school coach.