Harrison Article

I've been consistently saying that D'angelo wouldn't be an NBA player.. but lately I've had a change of heart.   

Consider this:   find me a noticeable talent gap between Austin Rivers and D'angelo?   Aside from Rivers's nba-pedigree, I see two players of nearly equal size who played similar minutes and put up almost identical numbers.   The competition they faced was fairly equivalent, and in terms of an eye ball test... I just don't see a big enough difference where Rivers is a lottery pick and D'angelo doesn't get a sniff after any of the next three seasons.   There's an argument to be made that Rivers might have a slight edge in terms of speed or agility; but I don't think it's overwhelming.   And while you could say Rivers played on a more talented team and therefore didn't have to put up the numbers D'angelo did; that should mean Rivers would have a better shooting % (having to force less shots), more assists because of the talent around him, and probably less turnovers because, again, the offense wasn't forced to run through him.   Problem is none of that was true.

Here are their lines as freshmen
            MIN    FGM-FGA    FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA      FT%       REB   AST   STL   TO   PTS
Harrison  35.4    4.9-13.0    .374      2.3-6.4      .362    4.8-6.0     .799   3.9   2.0   1.6   2.3   16.8
Rivers      33.2    5.1-11.8    .433      1.7-4.7      .365    3.6-5.4     .658   3.4   2.1   1.0   2.3   15.5

Now I'm not saying this is conclusive that Harrisons a better prospect than Rivers. (although you could certainly argue that).    But there's not a lot that shows Rivers is so far superior that he goes lotto after his fresh year and D'angelo never gets drafted.    Keep in mind one is 6'3 1/2 and the other is 6'4.   

I've been consistently saying that D'angelo wouldn't be an NBA player.. but lately I've had a change of heart.   

Consider this:   find me a noticeable talent gap between Austin Rivers and D'angelo?   Aside from Rivers's nba-pedigree, I see two players of nearly equal size who played similar minutes and put up almost identical numbers.   The competition they faced was fairly equivalent, and in terms of an eye ball test... I just don't see a big enough difference where Rivers is a lottery pick and D'angelo doesn't get a sniff after any of the next three seasons.   There's an argument to be made that Rivers might have a slight edge in terms of speed or agility; but I don't think it's overwhelming.   And while you could say Rivers played on a more talented team and therefore didn't have to put up the numbers D'angelo did; that should mean Rivers would have a better shooting % (having to force less shots), more assists because of the talent around him, and probably less turnovers because, again, the offense wasn't forced to run through him.   Problem is none of that was true.

Here are their lines as freshmen
            MIN    FGM-FGA    FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA      FT%       REB   AST   STL   TO   PTS
Harrison  35.4    4.9-13.0    .374      2.3-6.4      .362    4.8-6.0     .799   3.9   2.0   1.6   2.3   16.8
Rivers      33.2    5.1-11.8    .433      1.7-4.7      .365    3.6-5.4     .658   3.4   2.1   1.0   2.3   15.5

Now I'm not saying this is conclusive that Harrisons a better prospect than Rivers. (although you could certainly argue that).    But there's not a lot that shows Rivers is so far superior that he goes lotto after his fresh year and D'angelo never gets drafted.    Keep in mind one is 6'3 1/2 and the other is 6'4.   

Interesting post.  Thanks.

Unfortunately College stats do not way heavily on scouts. Rivers is more athletic, was the first or 2nd best HS player in his class, his father is Doc Rivers and played for DUKE. Harrison does not have any of that going for him. BTW I think Rivers stinks and Harrison was a better college player last season.

I've been consistently saying that D'angelo wouldn't be an NBA player.. but lately I've had a change of heart.   

Consider this:   find me a noticeable talent gap between Austin Rivers and D'angelo?   Aside from Rivers's nba-pedigree, I see two players of nearly equal size who played similar minutes and put up almost identical numbers.   The competition they faced was fairly equivalent, and in terms of an eye ball test... I just don't see a big enough difference where Rivers is a lottery pick and D'angelo doesn't get a sniff after any of the next three seasons.   There's an argument to be made that Rivers might have a slight edge in terms of speed or agility; but I don't think it's overwhelming.   And while you could say Rivers played on a more talented team and therefore didn't have to put up the numbers D'angelo did; that should mean Rivers would have a better shooting % (having to force less shots), more assists because of the talent around him, and probably less turnovers because, again, the offense wasn't forced to run through him.   Problem is none of that was true.

Here are their lines as freshmen
            MIN    FGM-FGA    FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA      FT%       REB   AST   STL   TO   PTS
Harrison  35.4    4.9-13.0    .374      2.3-6.4      .362    4.8-6.0     .799   3.9   2.0   1.6   2.3   16.8
Rivers      33.2    5.1-11.8    .433      1.7-4.7      .365    3.6-5.4     .658   3.4   2.1   1.0   2.3   15.5

Now I'm not saying this is conclusive that Harrisons a better prospect than Rivers. (although you could certainly argue that).    But there's not a lot that shows Rivers is so far superior that he goes lotto after his fresh year and D'angelo never gets drafted.    Keep in mind one is 6'3 1/2 and the other is 6'4.   

I appreciate this comparison, but these stats are not telling the entire story.

Harrison played on a team that was going nowhere after the 3rd game of the BE season. Rivers played in games that mattered, and he was the go to guy in that backcourt during ACC games. This year, DLo will have a full roster of players around him, and the points he scores will matter. Too much of that 16.8 was accumulated in garbage time.

Quote from: desco80 on September 25, 2012, 03:17:03 PM

I've been consistently saying that D'angelo wouldn't be an NBA player.. but lately I've had a change of heart.   

Consider this:   find me a noticeable talent gap between Austin Rivers and D'angelo?   Aside from Rivers's nba-pedigree, I see two players of nearly equal size who played similar minutes and put up almost identical numbers.   The competition they faced was fairly equivalent, and in terms of an eye ball test... I just don't see a big enough difference where Rivers is a lottery pick and D'angelo doesn't get a sniff after any of the next three seasons.   There's an argument to be made that Rivers might have a slight edge in terms of speed or agility; but I don't think it's overwhelming.   And while you could say Rivers played on a more talented team and therefore didn't have to put up the numbers D'angelo did; that should mean Rivers would have a better shooting % (having to force less shots), more assists because of the talent around him, and probably less turnovers because, again, the offense wasn't forced to run through him.   Problem is none of that was true.

Here are their lines as freshmen
            MIN    FGM-FGA    FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA      FT%       REB   AST   STL   TO   PTS
Harrison  35.4    4.9-13.0    .374      2.3-6.4      .362    4.8-6.0     .799   3.9   2.0   1.6   2.3   16.8
Rivers      33.2    5.1-11.8    .433      1.7-4.7      .365    3.6-5.4     .658   3.4   2.1   1.0   2.3   15.5

Now I'm not saying this is conclusive that Harrisons a better prospect than Rivers. (although you could certainly argue that).    But there's not a lot that shows Rivers is so far superior that he goes lotto after his fresh year and D'angelo never gets drafted.    Keep in mind one is 6'3 1/2 and the other is 6'4.   

I appreciate this comparison, but these stats are not telling the entire story.

Harrison played on a team that was going nowhere after the 3rd game of the BE season. Rivers played in games that mattered, and he was the go to guy in that backcourt during ACC games. This year, DLo will have a full roster of players around him, and the points he scores will matter. Too much of that 16.8 was accumulated in garbage time.

But he only took on average 1 more shot a game.  Which actually surprised me.  I was expecting more.

Wonder what the total number difference was.  If this meeting gets more boring maybe I'll check.

Also what is 'garbage time' exactly?  I don't think you watched every Duke game and I'm sure they won a great number on their own.  K is notorious for leaving his guys in till the end.  How many then in your 'garbage time' category did Rivers partake in?

Quote from: desco80 on September 25, 2012, 03:17:03 PM

I've been consistently saying that D'angelo wouldn't be an NBA player.. but lately I've had a change of heart.   

Consider this:   find me a noticeable talent gap between Austin Rivers and D'angelo?   Aside from Rivers's nba-pedigree, I see two players of nearly equal size who played similar minutes and put up almost identical numbers.   The competition they faced was fairly equivalent, and in terms of an eye ball test... I just don't see a big enough difference where Rivers is a lottery pick and D'angelo doesn't get a sniff after any of the next three seasons.   There's an argument to be made that Rivers might have a slight edge in terms of speed or agility; but I don't think it's overwhelming.   And while you could say Rivers played on a more talented team and therefore didn't have to put up the numbers D'angelo did; that should mean Rivers would have a better shooting % (having to force less shots), more assists because of the talent around him, and probably less turnovers because, again, the offense wasn't forced to run through him.   Problem is none of that was true.

Here are their lines as freshmen
            MIN    FGM-FGA    FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA      FT%       REB   AST   STL   TO   PTS
Harrison  35.4    4.9-13.0    .374      2.3-6.4      .362    4.8-6.0     .799   3.9   2.0   1.6   2.3   16.8
Rivers      33.2    5.1-11.8    .433      1.7-4.7      .365    3.6-5.4     .658   3.4   2.1   1.0   2.3   15.5

Now I'm not saying this is conclusive that Harrisons a better prospect than Rivers. (although you could certainly argue that).    But there's not a lot that shows Rivers is so far superior that he goes lotto after his fresh year and D'angelo never gets drafted.    Keep in mind one is 6'3 1/2 and the other is 6'4.   

I appreciate this comparison, but these stats are not telling the entire story.

Harrison played on a team that was going nowhere after the 3rd game of the BE season. Rivers played in games that mattered, and he was the go to guy in that backcourt during ACC games. This year, DLo will have a full roster of players around him, and the points he scores will matter. Too much of that 16.8 was accumulated in garbage time.

You're definitely right last year's stats don't tell the whole story.  And for months I had the same thought you did Poison... loved Dangelo but just didn't think he had the length and athleticism that the NBA wants.   
My thought when I first looked the stats up was just that.... even if Rivers is better, which he probably is.... is he THAT much better that he's a lottery pick after his freshmen year but D'angelo never gets a shot? 
I don't think so anymore.
The stats are identical, and if I think back to the handful of times I saw Dook play; I don't remember Rivers being that much more athletic and savy that I thought "hey, that's why he's going to be a pro and Harrison won't".  There probably was a difference, and I'll give the edge to Rivers, but I can't say he was "in a different league" than D'angelo.   So who knows.   

Moose, I consider points during garbage time to be scoring when the opposing team doesn't need to stop you. Gift for example, lit up UK in what was clearly a meaningless part of the game.

When DLo kept us in the game at GTown, he really showed everyone what he was capable of doing. In games against teams where we were down by 25, and he hit a few threes/sank a few free throws, I'm not as impressed.

But as I said, we'll know what we have soon. We know he's good. We'll find out if he's great.

Moose, I consider points during garbage time to be scoring when the opposing team doesn't need to stop you. Gift for example, lit up UK in what was clearly a meaningless part of the game.

When DLo kept us in the game at GTown, he really showed everyone what he was capable of doing. In games against teams where we were down by 25, and he hit a few threes/sank a few free throws, I'm not as impressed.

But as I said, we'll know what we have soon. We know he's good. We'll find out if he's great.

Ok but how many blowouts did Duke have?  Obviously only Kid can probably comment on that since he watched all the games probably.

Quote from: Poison on September 25, 2012, 09:38:14 PM

Moose, I consider points during garbage time to be scoring when the opposing team doesn't need to stop you. Gift for example, lit up UK in what was clearly a meaningless part of the game.

When DLo kept us in the game at GTown, he really showed everyone what he was capable of doing. In games against teams where we were down by 25, and he hit a few threes/sank a few free throws, I'm not as impressed.

But as I said, we'll know what we have soon. We know he's good. We'll find out if he's great.

Ok but how many blowouts did Duke have?  Obviously only Kid can probably comment on that since he watched all the games probably.

"Only kid"?   I'm insulted, Moose!      Depends on how you define blowout.    Duke had 12 wins by 10 pts or more.     The had wins of:  41, 40, 30, 27, 25, 23, 18, 18, , 15, 13, 13, and 10.   They had two blowout losses, to Ohio State by 22, and UNC by 18.

Quote from: Moose on September 26, 2012, 07:41:44 PM

Quote from: Poison on September 25, 2012, 09:38:14 PM

Moose, I consider points during garbage time to be scoring when the opposing team doesn't need to stop you. Gift for example, lit up UK in what was clearly a meaningless part of the game.

When DLo kept us in the game at GTown, he really showed everyone what he was capable of doing. In games against
teams where we were down by 25, and he hit a few threes/sank a few free throws, I'm not as impressed.

But as I said, we'll know what we have soon. We know he's good. We'll find out if he's great.

Ok but how many blowouts did Duke have?  Obviously only Kid can probably comment on that since he watched all the games probably.

"Only kid"?   I'm insulted, Moose!      Depends on how you define blowout.    Duke had 12 wins by 10 pts or more.     The had wins of:  41, 40, 30, 27, 25, 23, 18, 18, , 15, 13, 13, and 10.   They had two blowout losses, to Ohio State by 22, and UNC by 18.

I think it's different in a win, because your performance contributed to the team's success. And if a team is up by 30 or 40 points, what's the point in leaving your best player out there? Duke probably didn't.

But still, without seeing the actual game, the numbers are not enough. One of the games you listed here was a 10 point win. That could have been a tie game with a minute to go.

Quote from: crgreen on September 26, 2012, 09:18:33 PM

Quote from: Moose on September 26, 2012, 07:41:44 PM

Quote from: Poison on September 25, 2012, 09:38:14 PM

Moose, I consider points during garbage time to be scoring when the opposing team doesn't need to stop you. Gift for example, lit up UK in what was clearly a meaningless part of the game.

When DLo kept us in the game at GTown, he really showed everyone what he was capable of doing. In games against
teams where we were down by 25, and he hit a few threes/sank a few free throws, I'm not as impressed.

But as I said, we'll know what we have soon. We know he's good. We'll find out if he's great.

Ok but how many blowouts did Duke have?  Obviously only Kid can probably comment on that since he watched all the games probably.

"Only kid"?   I'm insulted, Moose!      Depends on how you define blowout.    Duke had 12 wins by 10 pts or more.     The had wins of:  41, 40, 30, 27, 25, 23, 18, 18, , 15, 13, 13, and 10.   They had two blowout losses, to Ohio State by 22, and UNC by 18.

I think it's different in a win, because your performance contributed to the team's success. And if a team is up by 30 or 40 points, what's the point in leaving your best player out there? Duke probably didn't.

But still, without seeing the actual game, the numbers are not enough. One of the games you listed here was a 10 point win. That could have been a tie game with a minute to go.

Duke is notorious for leaving starters in until the end of the game.  And if they are winning by 30 the other team I'm sure is just waiting for the rebound or inbounds to run up the court and shoot over a Duke team that is just looking to leave the building.

Garbage time should never be dismissed but also too many factors to hold it on such a pedestal.

C.J. McCollum , B.J. Young , B.J. Young , Trey Burke , Phil Pressey  are PG or Combo guards expected to be taken in the 1st round on draftexpress .

http://nbadraft.net/2013-nba-draft-top-10-point-guard-prospects

We saw Harrison & Lindsey look very good against CJ last year. And he is supposed to be a lottery pick?

I am standing by prediction in this draft

It is very weak at PG & Combo guard + Harrison improving with Lucas + A winning season + running the Lead guard = 1st round 2013

I predict that DLo won't play one minute in the league until after he graduates.

I predict that DLo won't play one minute in the league until after he graduates.

+1. He reminds me almost of a Scottie Reynolds type player. Not quite athletic enough for the NBA, but can be a phenomenal college player.

I appreciate this comparison, but these stats are not telling the entire story.

Harrison played on a team that was going nowhere after the 3rd game of the BE season. Rivers played in games that mattered, and he was the go to guy in that backcourt during ACC games. This year, DLo will have a full roster of players around him, and the points he scores will matter. Too much of that 16.8 was accumulated in garbage time.

Shouldn't the same apply to Moe's points?  It didn't keep him out of the League.  While I agree that is is likely that D'lo naver plays in the NBA, it's not because he scored his points in garbage time.  If he can translate his skills to the pg spot, then he may have a shot.

Quote from: Poison on September 25, 2012, 03:44:37 PM

I appreciate this comparison, but these stats are not telling the entire story.

Harrison played on a team that was going nowhere after the 3rd game of the BE season. Rivers played in games that mattered, and he was the go to guy in that backcourt during ACC games. This year, DLo will have a full roster of players around him, and the points he scores will matter. Too much of that 16.8 was accumulated in garbage time.

Shouldn't the same apply to Moe's points?  It didn't keep him out of the League.  While I agree that is is likely that D'lo naver plays in the NBA, it's not because he scored his points in garbage time.  If he can translate his skills to the pg spot,
then he may have a shot.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. I have always believed that Moe took a huge risk. However, he has an NBA wingspan, and overall a skill set that they usually draft high. Harrison has a game that is similar to several high level college players that all of us have seen regularly. Scotty Reynolds is a great example. I also see a lot of Gmac in him.

The fact that he's playing point may help, but it's a longshot IMO. I hope that I'm wrong. Either way, he'll have a lucrative career playing basketball, and who knows, maybe even a degree from a good school.

Quote from: simplyred on September 27, 2012, 06:00:20 AM

Quote from: Poison on September 25, 2012, 03:44:37 PM

I appreciate this comparison, but these stats are not telling the entire story.

Harrison played on a team that was going nowhere after the 3rd game of the BE season. Rivers played in games that mattered, and he was the go to guy in that backcourt during ACC games. This year, DLo will have a full roster of players around him, and the points he scores will matter. Too much of that 16.8 was accumulated in garbage time.

Shouldn't the same apply to Moe's points?  It didn't keep him out of the League.  While I agree that is is likely that D'lo naver plays in the NBA, it's not because he scored his points in garbage time.  If he can translate his skills to the pg spot,
then he may have a shot.

It's not an apples to apples comparison. I have always believed that Moe took a huge risk. However, he has an NBA wingspan, and overall a skill set that they usually draft high. Harrison has a game that is similar to several high level college players that all of us have seen regularly. Scotty Reynolds is a great example. I also see a lot of Gmac in him.

The fact that he's playing point may help, but it's a longshot IMO. I hope that I'm wrong. Either way, he'll have a lucrative career playing basketball, and who knows, maybe even a degree from a good school.

I agree with everything younare saying, Poison.  I just reject the "garbage points" argument because our games didn't matter as much as Dukes.

maybe even a degree from a good school.

There's no way Harrison transfers.

D Lo seems like the kind of guy that's gonna work his tail off to become an NBA PG and I see his ceiling/best comparison as he continues this growth to be Jameer Nelson. 

Harrison a 1st team All Big East player this year?