Baylor - Game Discussion

Quote from: we are sju on November 18, 2012, 08:13:41 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 18, 2012, 08:00:44 PM

Based on what I have seen, we need Sanchez more than Branch. Our rebounding is atrocious!

That was also the worst zone defense ever. What was the point of it?  Let them shoot threes than not be in rebounding position when they missed? That was a real bad job by Lavin of making in game adjustments. Actualy he made no adjustment.  I guess the saying "shooting them out of the zone" does not apply to us.

Maybe you weren't actually watching because Lavin switched to man defense.

They played 95% zone, maybe you weren't watching or are not sure what a zone is?

Quote from: MCNPA on November 18, 2012, 08:16:39 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 18, 2012, 08:13:41 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 18, 2012, 08:00:44 PM

Based on what I have seen, we need Sanchez more than Branch. Our rebounding is atrocious!

That was also the worst zone defense ever. What was the point of it?  Let them shoot threes than not be in rebounding position when they missed? That was a real bad job by Lavin of making in game adjustments. Actualy he made no adjustment.  I guess the saying "shooting them out of the zone" does not apply to us.

Maybe you weren't actually watching because Lavin switched to man defense.

They played 95% zone, maybe you weren't watching or are not sure what a zone is?

The zone has been at its most effective with Amir up top. Today amir didnt play well, and while he was in he was at the bottom of the zone due to foul trouble. I really hope that if sanchez doesnt get cleared the staff takes the redshirt off of gift. We cant have Jakarr play 20 minutes a game at the center position.

Harrison needs to shrink his head.  No player is more important than the team.  Chucking up 3s and poor D doesn't cut it.  He is an immature leader.  Why did Lav not play Jones when we were getting destroyed inside?  What happened to the great inside plays we saw in the first few games? So far Balamou has exceeded expectations.  Sampson continues to impress.  What is brutal and also hope inspiring is that both of these losing games were winnable. 

Quote from: boo3 on November 18, 2012, 07:55:56 PM

I know he's shot the ball well tonight, but so far this season, I am way, way down on De'angelo.  He better get his head out of his ass.

Other then shooting, he isn't doing anything needed to win. Not smart/lack of passing, lack of defense and overall lack of hustle. Laughable how he wants to be drafted right now.

A guy on this board beat me up a couple of months ago because I did not think he was the next Oscar, or even Walt, or Jerry Mac for that matter. Now he gotta work on being 2ed team big east. And yes, I do like the player, but not as much as some. He got a ways to go, however he sees himself, gotta keep up on D, and I'm hoping he can get his shot off at next level. He does have a knack of sticking his hands in and forcing t/o's. Phil gets to rim pretty good, and might be a bit better a creating his own shot. And yes, I do like DLo's game and pull for him to be solid player by the time he leaves.

Quote from: Save The Hero on November 18, 2012, 07:59:53 PM

Quote from: boo3 on November 18, 2012, 07:55:56 PM

I know he's shot the ball well tonight, but so far this season, I am way, way down on De'angelo.  He better get his head out of his ass.

Other then shooting, he isn't doing anything needed to win. Not smart/lack of passing, lack of defense and overall lack of hustle. Laughable how he wants to be drafted right now.

A guy on this board beat me up a couple of months ago because I did not think he was the next Oscar, or even Walt, or Jerry Mac for that matter. Now he gotta work on being 2ed team big east. And yes, I do like the player, but not as much as some. He got a ways to go, however he sees himself, gotta keep up on D, and I'm hoping he can get his shot off at next level. He does have a knack of sticking his hands in and forcing t/o's. Phil gets to rim pretty good, and might be a bit better a creating his own shot. And yes, I do like DLo's game and pull for him to be solid player by the time he leaves.

  You were ahead of the curve, Jr!

Quote from: MCNPA on November 18, 2012, 08:16:39 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 18, 2012, 08:13:41 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 18, 2012, 08:00:44 PM

Based on what I have seen, we need Sanchez more than Branch. Our rebounding is atrocious!

That was also the worst zone defense ever. What was the point of it?  Let them shoot threes than not be in rebounding position when they missed? That was a real bad job by Lavin of making in game adjustments. Actualy he made no adjustment.  I guess the saying "shooting them out of the zone" does not apply to us.

Maybe you weren't actually watching because Lavin switched to man defense.

They played 95% zone, maybe you weren't watching or are not sure what a zone is?

You said he made no adjustment.  Just admit you are wrong.  He did adjust.  Actually, we were very effective for most of the game with that zone.  We did a poor job blanketing Heslip with or without the zone.  Point is that adjustments were made but we still got burned.

The zone is horrible.  We can't ditch it soon enough IMO. When we go man we play much better.

Lets not make the woe is us argument about not having big men.  Baylor has 2 giants, not 4.  And to add Jefferson is a 4th year JR who played just 11 mpg last year and have looked awesome this year so far.

Lavin needs to sub more.  Its clear they are tired in the 2nd half. Felix has done great in the very limited action he's seen.  Play him!  At who's expense I don't care.  Marco is going to need a few games to get in the groove.  Thankfully we have some lighter teams to do that.

Also not happy with Chris fouling out of last two games.  He has great body control defensively but he's been picking up cheap reaching BS fouls.  Stop that!

We can score the ball. We don't play defense. It's that simple. We are a very inexperienced defensive team.

Harrison needs to shrink his head.  No player is more important than the team.  Chucking up 3s and poor D doesn't cut it.  He is an immature leader.  Why did Lav not play Jones when we were getting destroyed inside?  What happened to the great inside plays we saw in the first few games? So far Balamou has exceeded expectations.  Sampson continues to impress.  What is brutal and also hope inspiring is that both of these losing games were winnable.

can't read coach's mind, but my guess is that jones got pulled for not being physical enough.  he has that great body.  but we had no inside presence.  i thought jakar played tough inside.  that's about it.  otherwise, we were manhandled.

We can score the ball. We don't play defense. It's that simple. We are a very inexperienced defensive team.

But how are we inexperienced when half these guys played this zone last year.

A real positive though was Jakarr's midrange game.  Kid was nailing jumpers from everywhere.  A lot better than I expected.  Zone has been real good at times but we must move better and maybe expand our repertoire with other zones if we're going to use them.  We certainly aren't playing the zones like we did 2 years ago.  We know it can be played much, much better.

A real positive though was Jakarr's midrange game.  Kid was nailing jumpers from everywhere.  A lot better than I expected.  Zone has been real good at times but we must move better and maybe expand our repertoire with other zones if we're going to use them.  We certainly aren't playing the zones like we did 2 years ago.  We know it can be played much, much better.

Sorry Marcus the zone is dreadful.  It looks good when it morphs into the man element of the matchup portion of the zone.  The switching is poor, they lose the back man on the weak side (Hello Heslip) and they closeout poorly and leave themselves out of other positions.  I don't know why its changed and why the returnees can't get it but it looks horrid.

As for Jakarr I've always said I was a fan of his jumper as its improved throughout his prep year.  Some here hate his form but I can care less if they throw it underhand so long as it goes in.

A real positive though was Jakarr's midrange game.  Kid was nailing jumpers from everywhere.  A lot better than I expected.  Zone has been real good at times but we must move better and maybe expand our repertoire with other zones if we're going to use them.  We certainly aren't playing the zones like we did 2 years ago.  We know it can be played much, much better.

  Agree about Jakarr.  Pleasantly surprised about that.

Have to agree with Moose. Zone is a horror and exploited easily. Baylor guards knew exactly how to attack it. Not only thus far do we close out poorly, but get exhausted with all this running around.

Quote from: Poison on November 18, 2012, 08:47:45 PM

We can score the ball. We don't play defense. It's that simple. We are a very inexperienced defensive team.

But how are we inexperienced when half these guys played this zone last year.

We're St.John's. Cut out this zone garbage. We are not slow.

Quote from: MCNPA on November 18, 2012, 08:57:32 PM

A real positive though was Jakarr's midrange game.  Kid was nailing jumpers from everywhere.  A lot better than I expected.  Zone has been real good at times but we must move better and maybe expand our repertoire with other zones if we're going to use them.  We certainly aren't playing the zones like we did 2 years ago.  We know it can be played much, much better.

Sorry Marcus the zone is dreadful.  It looks good when it morphs into the man element of the matchup portion of the zone.  The switching is poor, they lose the back man on the weak side (Hello Heslip) and they closeout poorly and leave themselves out of other positions.  I don't know why its changed and why the returnees can't get it but it looks horrid.

As for Jakarr I've always said I was a fan of his jumper as its improved throughout his prep year.  Some here hate his form but I can care less if they throw it underhand so long as it goes in.

Much like Lavin's first year here, I'm not a fan of abandoning I early though.  We looked horrible with Norm's seniors and by mid-season we looked like world-beaters.  Our kids need to learn to play it better, it's as simple as that.  I like the man defense, but I still want to see us mix it up.  4 games in one week is tough for anybody, let alone a freshman laden team.  Sanchez and Branch should really help though.

To add though, I want to see us run the table before conference play.  No reason we can't.  We should.  As of now our only 2 losses are to two top 25 teams that are as good or better than most of the Big East teams we will play. I'd like to keep it that way.  If we only have these 2 ooc losses at the end of the season, they won't negatively impact our chances at making the tourney in any way. 

Of primary importance is just continuing to get better.  With that, the wins will come.  We already are getting Branch in December and hopefully we'll hear soon about Sanchez who could be a game changer at PF for us. 

To add though, I want to see us run the table before conference play.  No reason we can't.  We should.  As of now our only 2 losses are to two top 25 teams that are as good or better than most of the Big East teams we will play. I'd like to keep it that way.  If we only have these 2 ooc losses at the end of the season, they won't negatively impact our chances at making the tourney in any way. 

Of primary importance is just continuing to get better.  With that, the wins will come.  We already are getting Branch in December and hopefully we'll hear soon about Sanchez who could be a game changer at PF for us. 

Agreed and its vital because we have a weaker BE schedule where the better teams we are only playing once.  So won't have tons of Top 25 teams lining up unless things shake out differently.   As I said in my Rest of the Way thread need to win the next 8 and go into BE with just 2 losses.

Im frustrated but this shouldn't be all that surprising.
We are still very inexperienced.   Were undersized, and short on depth with Orlando and Branch unavailable.
We weren't going to go 4-0 this week.   We looked surprisingly good against Detroit.and Charleston, but were not good enough yet to be consistently very good for an entire half, let alone consistent for an entire week.
I think we've looked tired in the second half of games.   It makes our defense look lazy or slow to close out - but thats a result of fatigue.  Ill be honest I don't think the.coaching staff had a great week - I javelin questions about why Marco didn't play the last min against Murray, why we didn't switch defenses today, and about our rotations and fatigue

The good news.is that a lot of this.can be.corrected by January. 
We are going to have good moments this year, there is no reason to panic.

Im frustrated but this shouldn't be all that surprising.
We are still very inexperienced.   Were undersized, and short on depth with Orlando and Branch unavailable.
We weren't going to go 4-0 this week.   We looked surprisingly good against Detroit.and Charleston, but were not good enough yet to be consistently very good for an entire half, let alone consistent for an entire week.
I think we've looked tired in the second half of games.   It makes our defense look lazy or slow to close out - but thats a result of fatigue.  Ill be honest I don't think the.coaching staff had a great week - I javelin questions about why Marco didn't play the last min against Murray, why we didn't switch defenses today, and about our rotations and fatigue

The good news.is that a lot of this.can be.corrected by January. 
We are going to have good moments this year, there is no reason to panic.

Short bench?  We are at 9 players now.  How many did Baylor roll tonight?  6!
We looked good today for 30-35 minutes.  Then the wheels came off.  I wanted 2 wins.  The sad part is winning on Friday would have got us 3 wins because I think we would have taken Colorado.

You are right about the tired legs.  Felix and Marco needed to see more minutes.  And if Marco is going to play run plays for him to exploit his strength.  He's not the athlete the others are to create a shot.

No panic here on my end especially but like you said staff had questionable few games and needs to know that now the margin for error is 0 the rest of the calendar year.  NO MORE LOSSES till BE play!