Felipe Discussion from Rysheed Thread

"Nothing against Willie.  I like the man and his play.  He was at the SC game.

But he was a role player and Felipe was the best player on the team.  There's no comparision.

Lopez was a gazelle and positively scintillating in the open court and on the break. "
Quote by a guy who did body shots with Marco Baldi and Dave

Mase jr was the best player on his team, was he better than Glass or Shelton Jones?

Again I am only being half serious about  Glass vs Lopez, but I do not rank guys that high who were on terrible teams

No, he wasn't better than Jones or Glass. He wasn't better than Lamont Hamilton or DJ Kennedy either.

"Nothing against Willie.  I like the man and his play.  He was at the SC game.

But he was a role player and Felipe was the best player on the team.  There's no comparision.

Lopez was a gazelle and positively scintillating in the open court and on the break. "
Quote by a guy who did body shots with Marco Baldi and Dave



Mase jr was the best player on his team, was he better than Glass or Shelton Jones?

Again I am only being half serious about  Glass vs Lopez, but I do not rank guys that high who were on terrible teams

Yet you have Hatten pretty high.   
Once ncaa game and an NIT. 

The Glass > Lopez argument is akin to Ariza > Maravich.  An absolute joke.

Quote from: we are sju on December 05, 2012, 03:51:09 PM

"Nothing against Willie.  I like the man and his play.  He was at the SC game.

But he was a role player and Felipe was the best player on the team.  There's no comparision.

Lopez was a gazelle and positively scintillating in the open court and on the break. "
Quote by a guy who did body shots with Marco Baldi and Dave



Mase jr was the best player on his team, was he better than Glass or Shelton Jones?

Again I am only being half serious about  Glass vs Lopez, but I do not rank guys that high who were on terrible teams

Yet you have Hatten pretty high.   
Once ncaa game and an NIT.

 Hatten was only here for two years.

Hatten also did not have anyone nearly as talented as Hamilton

Hatten also did not have anyone nearly as talented as Hamilton

Hatten also had the green light to shoot 30 times a game.   I'm not saying Lopez wasn't the focal point, but Hatten had the ball in his hands literally the entire game.    The offense those two years consisted of 4 people standing around and Hatten going to work.   

"Hatten also had the green light to shoot 30 times a game.   I'm not saying Lopez wasn't the focal point, but Hatten had the ball in his hands literally the entire game.    The offense those two years consisted of 4 people standing around and Hatten going to work."
Quote from Felipe Lopez jr

I don't recall Lopez lacking shots
Honestly with Glass comparison I was just trying to make a point that I look back more fondly at a solid player on good teams than the best player on crappy team.
I def put Hatten above Lopez. If you put Lopez on Hatten teams instead of Hatten they do not make tourney or NIT

Willie Glass was a very good role player on a great team (probably the most talented team in the history of the program), but to compare him with Felipe Lopez is absurd. Felipe was THE player, the go-to guy for four years. He had skills Willie could only dream of having, and to think otherwise is  absurd.

Willie Glass was a very good role player on a great team (probably the most talented team in the history of the program), but to compare him with Felipe Lopez is absurd. Felipe was THE player. the go-to guy for four years. He had skills Willie could only dream of having, and to think otherwise is  absurd.

Lopez was not the go to guy in 95-96. 96-97 is debatable too. Glass and Lopez shared comparable success at the NBA level. (None, but they were drafted) Doesn't that make them quite similar in ability? Yes, I agree, Glass played on a world class team, but if he wasn't legit himself the Lakers wouldn't have drafted him.

Quote from: RedVet on December 05, 2012, 10:42:43 PM

Willie Glass was a very good role player on a great team (probably the most talented team in the history of the program), but to compare him with Felipe Lopez is absurd. Felipe was THE player. the go-to guy for four years. He had skills Willie could only dream of having, and to think otherwise is  absurd.

Lopez was not the go to guy in 95-96. 96-97 is debatable too. Glass and Lopez shared comparable success at the NBA level. Doesn't that make them quite similar in ability? Yes, I agree, Glass a works class team, but if he wasn't legit himself the Lakers wouldn't have drafted him.

Willie Glass and Felipe Lopez had "comparable success at the NBA level"? This isn't registering with me.

Quote from: we are sju on December 05, 2012, 03:51:09 PM

"Nothing against Willie.  I like the man and his play.  He was at the SC game.

But he was a role player and Felipe was the best player on the team.  There's no comparision.

Lopez was a gazelle and positively scintillating in the open court and on the break. "

Quote by a guy who did body shots with Marco Baldi and Dave

Mase jr was the best player on his team, was he better than Glass or Shelton Jones?
Again I am only being half serious about  Glass vs Lopez, but I do not rank guys that high who were on terrible teams

Yet you have Hatten pretty high.   
Once ncaa game and an NIT. 

Hatten is a legend at SJ IMO. He did everything. And he did everything like a stud. Lopez is nowhere near him. People talk about Lopez not having a pg. Hatten became the point guard. He was still lethal. That's an underrated achievement.

That video of felipe dunking brought back memories-of interference on the tv. Think because felipe came in as the #1 recruit in the country and sports illustrated cover boy the expectations were sky high and since he did not live up to the hype he is viewed by many as a lesser player than he actually was. He did a little better than willie as far as the NBA goes. Willie tried out with the Lakers and it was either their coach or GM who was quoted as saying he had the worst fundamentals of any player he had ever seen. Felipe in his last go around in NBA was actually playing pretty well when he went down with a severe knee injury. To each his own as far as the divergent opinions go but IMHO Felipe was the better player by a fairly wide margin.

"Before Mullin, I think my favorite player was Kevin Williams.  First game my Dad ever took me to was against Georgetown.

 I could swear that I saw Kevin Williams dunk the ball on Ewing while simultaneously punching him in the face.  Then there was a bit of a melee afterwards and they were ejected.  Awesome stuff.   Did it really happen that way?  I'm not sure. My point, you may ask?  Sometimes what you see as an impressionable youngin isn't really accurate. For Example, Willie Glass being a great ball player."

Quote from someone who never had the misfortune of meeting Kevin Williams

I have mentioned this before but he was a jerk. I sort of remember him fighting Ewing but if my 10 year old or so at the time memory is correct he faired poorly. Fun would probably remember. I was the ballboy on the Staten Island Stallions USBL team on which Kevin Williams played. Team had 5 guys go onto the pros including Hot Rod Williams and Williams averaged like 30. He was also an angry dude. Billy Goodwin sat the bench for another team and was one of the nicest guys I met that year.

I was at STJ at that time.  Spoke to Kevin Williams on numerous occasions.  Always seemed like a nice guy.  I always picture him wearing glasses and studying in Marillac Cafeteria.  Very different than the way people somtimes describe him.

"The Glass > Lopez argument is akin to Ariza > Maravich.  An absolute joke."
Quote from Betty White

Again was simply pointing out that I value guy on good team over guy on crappy team. However comparing Glass to Lopez is nowhere near the joke of bringing up a top 50 guy in any context with Lopez.
The top 5 most overated players in SJU history(during my era)
1. Lopez
2.Z Hamilton
3. Wennington
4. Werdann
5. Brust

The top 5 most overated players in SJU history(during my era)
1. Lopez
2.Z Hamilton
3. Wennington
4. Werdann
5. Brust

-- How do you square calling Wennington, an important player on a good team, overrated, while using Glass's presence on the same team to amplify his accomplishments?

-- How do you leave Ron Rowan off the overrated team? How is floor slapping dope Matt Brust not one two and three on that list?

-- I had Zendon on my most underrated team at BEB. Nearly a four year double double. Didn't like to pass. Neither did Walter Berry.

Underrated:

5. Charles Minlend
4. Glen Williams
3. Boo Harvey
2. Zendon Hamilton
1. Mel Davis
 
Obviously this is all very subjective. I think Mark Jackson's college career is way overrated because of his pro career and how good he was as a junior and senior. Zendon is under appreciated because Mahoney's teams sucked.

"-- How do you square calling Wennington, an important player on a good team, overrated, while using Glass's presence on the same team to amplify his accomplishments?

-- How do you leave Ron Rowan off the overrated team? How is floor slapping dope Matt Brust not one two and three on that list?

-- I had Zendon on my most underrated team at BEB. Nearly a four year double double. Didn't like to pass. Neither did Walter Berry.

Underrated:

5. Charles Minlend
4. Glen Williams
3. Boo Harvey
2. Zendon Hamilton
1. Mel Davis
 
Obviously this is all very subjective. I think Mark Jackson's college career is way overrated because of his pro career and how good he was as a junior and senior. Zendon is under appreciated because Mahoney's teams sucked."
Quote from Zendon Hamilton's Dad



All hell is breaking loose! Betty White is using Pistol Pete in defense of Felipe Lopez and now someone whose basketball opinion I generally agree with (usually in a round about way) puts Zendon Hamilton in a sentence with The Truth.

As far as Wennington goes it really is the same argument you used for Jackson. Becuase he played 100 years in the NBA and tagged along with MJ for a couple championships I think his college career is overated. In defense of Jackson as you mentioned he had two great seasons. Would have been four, but you can pin the first two on Louie as I will argue to the death that Moses should not have played over him those two years.

I like Boo as much as you, but I think he is properly rated. I think he is either the 2nd or 3rd best point guard we have had in my lifetime.

Rowan had one nice season and hit a huge shot. Even got to play in the league for 3 games I believe. I think back fondly of him, but he no way overate him. I think he would have benefited more than anyone we have ever had that came along pre three point line. And NO Mullin did not need any more help.

I found Brust amusing but he was just a role player. I agree he is overated by the fan base.

Wennington was very good. He wasn't a stud, but he was solid. He is probably the best center we've ever had.

Again all hypothetical, but if you switch Wennington with Jayson Williams and Louie starts Jackson over Moses than we match up better with Gtown in 85

Quote from: we are sju on December 06, 2012, 08:44:45 AM

The top 5 most overated players in SJU history(during my era)
1. Lopez
2.Z Hamilton
3. Wennington
4. Werdann
5. Brust

-- How do you square calling Wennington, an important player on a good team, overrated, while using Glass's presence on the same team to amplify his accomplishments?

-- How do you leave Ron Rowan off the overrated team? How is floor slapping dope Matt Brust not one two and three on that list?

-- I had Zendon on my most underrated team at BEB. Nearly a four year double double. Didn't like to pass. Neither did Walter Berry.

Underrated:

5. Charles Minlend
4. Glen Williams
3. Boo Harvey
2. Zendon Hamilton
1. Mel Davis
 
Obviously this is all very subjective. I think Mark Jackson's college career is way overrated because of his pro career and how good he was as a junior and senior. Zendon is under appreciated because Mahoney's teams sucked.

Zendon was a double-double but at least 3 of those boards were off his own missed shots.  He also played terrible defense and pouted constantly.  I think he was neither over nor underrated.  He was one of the best players on mediocre teams.  The biggest loss on those teams was when Roshod Mcloud transferred to Duke. 

I did love Minlends game though def. one of my favorites along with Lamont Middleton and Billy Singleton