Rebounding Deficiencies

Nice analysis;

“@ECoastBias: Shot blocking is sexy, but the dirty work of rebounding is also needed for St. John's. #stjbb http://t.co/t6wwRMEv”

Defense/rebounding is about effort. Our effort, collectively is embarrassing.

after watching the pitt cinn game, we are going to be in big trouble on the boards against these bigger BE teams and no gift or sanchez only exacerbate that.

Defense/rebounding is about effort. Our effort, collectively is embarrassing.

Just a matter of sematics, but actually OUR rebounding - the number of rebounds we get - isn't embarrassing.  There are 220 teams in D-1 that rebound less than we do - we get 36.2 boards a game.  What is embarrassing is our inability to keep the opponents off the boards.  If we were getting as many as we give up, we'd be in the top 35 in D-1.

But I certainly see encouraging signs:   
Chris Obekpa?  First 7 games, averaged 4.0 rebs per game.    Last 5 games, 7.0  rebs per game.
Jakarr Sampson?  First 7 games, averaged 5.6 rebs per game.   Last 5 games,  9.0 rebs per game.
Amir Garrett?  FIrst 6 games, averaged 4.6 rebs per game.  Last 6 games, 6.4.

Interstingly, the DROP in our rebounding has been coming from our guards, not our bigs.    D'lo, Phil, Felix and Sir Dom have all shown significant drops in their rebouding numbers from first 6 games played vs. last 6 games played (tho significant for a guard means about 1 board a game - but those 1 per game WOULD reverse our rebounds/rebounds allowed totals).
 

Quote from: Poison on December 31, 2012, 12:36:11 PM

Defense/rebounding is about effort. Our effort, collectively is embarrassing.

Just a matter of sematics, but actually OUR rebounding - the number of rebounds we get - isn't embarrassing.  There are 220 teams in D-1 that rebound less than we do - we get 36.2 boards a game.  What is embarrassing is our inability to keep the opponents off the boards.  If we were getting as many as we give up, we'd be in the top 35 in D-1.

But I certainly see encouraging signs:   
Chris Obekpa?  First 7 games, averaged 4.0 rebs per game.    Last 5 games, 7.0  rebs per game.

Jakarr Sampson?  First 7 games, averaged 5.6 rebs per game.   Last 5 games,  9.0 rebs per game.
Amir Garrett?  FIrst 6 games, averaged 4.6 rebs per game.  Last 6 games, 6.4.

Interstingly, the DROP in our rebounding has been coming from our guards, not our bigs.    D'lo, Phil, Felix and Sir Dom have all shown significant drops in their rebouding numbers from first 6 games played vs. last 6 games played (tho significant for a guard means about 1 board a game - but those 1 per game WOULD reverse our rebounds/rebounds allowed totals).
 

The reason that Felix's rebounding has decreased is that his playing time has decreased significantly.

Nice analysis;

“@ECoastBias: Shot blocking is sexy, but the dirty work of rebounding is also needed for St. John's. #stjbb http://t.co/t6wwRMEv”

I completely agree.  I've always thought of shotblocking as the basketball equivalent to an all-out blitz in football...if you don't get there, you are screwed.  If given a choice, I take sound positioning over blocked shots any day of the week. 

Quote from: paultzman on December 31, 2012, 12:31:41 PM

Nice analysis;

“@ECoastBias: Shot blocking is sexy, but the dirty work of rebounding is also needed for St. John's. #stjbb http://t.co/t6wwRMEv”

I completely agree.  I've always thought of shotblocking as the basketball equivalent to an all-out blitz in football...if you don't get there, you are screwed.  If given a choice, I take sound positioning over blocked shots any day of the week.

I'm guessing you're too young then to have watched Russell and the Celts thru the 50s and early 60s.   

Strive for both - but from 7 decades of experience, it's easier to develop a players rebounding skills than it is shot-blocking skills.   Maybe because Rebounding IS for the most part a "skill", while shot-blocking is more of a "talent". 

I did a little statistical research on the matter this morning...

In games where we've blocked 9 or more blocked shots a game our average rebounding differential is -4.3.

In games where we block 8 shots or less a game our rebounding differential is -3.2 rebounds a game.

BUT an even greater line can be drawn between the rebounding/blocked shots issue when you take away the -21 rebounding differential in the Baylor game where we blocked only 8 shots. 

If you took that game away, we would be +1.1 in games that we averaged less than 8 blocks per game.  So there is definitely a line to be drawn between the 2 issues.  However, if you're on the coaching staff, do you ask Obekpa to ease up on going for blocks?? I think it's a difficult issue.  I do agree we should see more of Felix Balamou on the floor, as he is our first or 2nd best rebounding guard.

Nice analysis;

“@ECoastBias: Shot blocking is sexy, but the dirty work of rebounding is also needed for St. John's. #stjbb http://t.co/t6wwRMEv”

The backcourt refers to guards. The writer missed that one.

Quote from: Marillac on December 31, 2012, 10:00:49 PM

Quote from: paultzman on December 31, 2012, 12:31:41 PM

Nice analysis;

“@ECoastBias: Shot blocking is sexy, but the dirty work of rebounding is also needed for St. John's. #stjbb http://t.co/t6wwRMEv”

I completely agree.  I've always thought of shotblocking as the basketball equivalent to an all-out blitz in football...if you don't get there, you are screwed.  If given a choice, I take sound positioning over blocked shots any day of the week.

I'm guessing you're too young then to have watched Russell and the Celts thru the 50s and early 60s.   

Strive for both - but from 7 decades of experience, it's easier to develop a players rebounding skills than it is shot-blocking skills.   Maybe because Rebounding IS for the most part a "skill", while shot-blocking is more of a "talent". 

I am too young to have ever seen Russell play, but it is my understanding that Russell was also a fantastic rebounder.  There was no need to choose one or the other with him.  While it is much easier to develop rebounding skills than shot-blocking, the fact is that Obekpa is an NBA player.  By the time he "develops," he's gone. 

Our defense right now reminds me of a JV football defense.  Pitch right and the whole team overpursues to the point where a cutback left and a good move is a touchdown.  Three good passes will give any team an open shot...a hard drive to the lane will attract 2-3 shotblockers and result unguarded weakside rim for a putback.  That needs to be addressed asap.  These guys need to be aware of the consequences of recklessly challenging shots. 

Quote from: crgreen on January 01, 2013, 03:10:25 AM

Quote from: Marillac on December 31, 2012, 10:00:49 PM

Quote from: paultzman on December 31, 2012, 12:31:41 PM

Nice analysis;

“@ECoastBias: Shot blocking is sexy, but the dirty work of rebounding is also needed for St. John's. #stjbb http://t.co/t6wwRMEv”

I completely agree.  I've always thought of shotblocking as the basketball equivalent to an all-out blitz in football...if you don't get there, you are screwed.  If given a choice, I take sound positioning over blocked shots any day of the week.

I'm guessing you're too young then to have watched Russell and the Celts thru the 50s and early 60s.   

Strive for both - but from 7 decades of experience, it's easier to develop a players rebounding skills than it is shot-blocking skills.   Maybe because Rebounding IS for the most part a "skill", while shot-blocking is more of a "talent". 

I am too young to have ever seen Russell play, but it is my understanding that Russell was also a fantastic rebounder.  There was no need to choose one or the other with him.  While it is much easier to develop rebounding skills than shot-blocking, the fact is that Obekpa is an NBA player.  By the time he "develops," he's gone. 

Our defense right now reminds me of a JV football defense.  Pitch right and the whole team overpursues to the point where a cutback left and a good move is a touchdown.  Three good passes will give any team an open shot...a hard drive to the lane will attract 2-3 shotblockers and result unguarded weakside rim for a putback.  That needs to be addressed asap.  These guys need to be aware of the consequences of recklessly challenging shots.

Russell generally stayed between the hoop and his man and just outjumped everyone.  CO tends to hang out and look for block opportunities.  He doesn't move his feet, use his body and play big man "D" so rebounds don't come.  He will not play center in the NBA at his size and he's going to need to develop a post up game to make it as a forward.  Blocks alone won't do it.

On Christmas Day we went to my sister in laws house. My 7 year old nephew had a nerf rim over his door. He was playing against my 3 year old son and kept vollying the rebounds to himself. That is what watching SJU try to rebound reminds me of.

The rebounding is driving me nuts this game...

The rebounding is driving me nuts this game...

What rebounding?

On Christmas Day we went to my sister in laws house. My 7 year old nephew had a nerf rim over his door. He was playing against my 3 year old son and kept vollying the rebounds to himself. That is what watching SJU try to rebound reminds me of.

Eventually my son got frustrated and punched his cousin in the groin. Maybe Sampson and Obepka should try that technique?

Got to get that boy an Omar Cook jersey...

Quote from: we are sju on January 02, 2013, 09:09:02 PM

On Christmas Day we went to my sister in laws house. My 7 year old nephew had a nerf rim over his door. He was playing against my 3 year old son and kept vollying the rebounds to himself. That is what watching SJU try to rebound reminds me of.

Eventually my son got frustrated and punched his cousin in the groin. Maybe Sampson and Obepka should try that technique?

LOL

Sampson and Obekpa can't be in the same sentence with rebounding.  Sampson is a solid rebounder, but Obekpa is a very poor rebounder at this point. 

Quote from: we are sju on January 02, 2013, 09:17:06 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 02, 2013, 09:09:02 PM

On Christmas Day we went to my sister in laws house. My 7 year old nephew had a nerf rim over his door. He was playing against my 3 year old son and kept vollying the rebounds to himself. That is what watching SJU try to rebound reminds me of.

Eventually my son got frustrated and punched his cousin in the groin. Maybe Sampson and Obepka should try that technique?

LOL

Sampson and Obekpa can't be in the same sentence with rebounding.  Sampson is a solid rebounder, but Obekpa is a very poor rebounder at this point.

Like it or not, this was certainly a game we could have used Gods Gift on the boards or at least to put a body on Pinkston who killed us on the glass.  This red shirt stuff is really starting to get upsetting.  It's one thing to take the chance for pre season, out of conference games but this is the BE and this was a game we could have won.

Quote from: Marillac on January 02, 2013, 11:20:33 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 02, 2013, 09:17:06 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 02, 2013, 09:09:02 PM

On Christmas Day we went to my sister in laws house. My 7 year old nephew had a nerf rim over his door. He was playing against my 3 year old son and kept vollying the rebounds to himself. That is what watching SJU try to rebound reminds me of.

Eventually my son got frustrated and punched his cousin in the groin. Maybe Sampson and Obepka should try that technique?

LOL

Sampson and Obekpa can't be in the same sentence with rebounding.  Sampson is a solid rebounder, but Obekpa is a very poor rebounder at this point.

Like it or not, this was certainly a game we could have used Gods Gift on the boards or at least to put a body on Pinkston who killed us on the glass.  This red shirt stuff is really starting to get upsetting.  It's one thing to take the chance for pre season, out of conference games but this is the BE and this was a game we could have won.

Yes, thank you captain obvious. We all know that it was a terrible idea.

Bottom line is GG should not have been RS

The team needs his rebounding and defense out there, but it's too late now