I still think that coach Lavin is the right man for the job!

Original post above was directed at Lavin's NCAA success. Williams' four final fours at Kansas eclipses Lavin's one final eight appearance period. Like and value Lavin, but this is no contest.

No, that wasn't the original point when I mentioned Roy though.  You must not have paid attention. I mentioned Roy because their fan base wanted him gone with those final fours because they thought he was underachieving.  I'm not comparing their successes at all.  Both were successful and Roy certainly more so.  Point was the fans of those programs still didn't appreciate them.

The ability to recognize when you are wrong or accept a position contrary to yours are virtues.

Roy Williams is the worst of the best. A HOFer, but clearly not the first guy you'd take if you had your pick.

The ability to recognize when you are wrong or accept a position contrary to yours are virtues.

Great passive aggressive comeback!

Quote from: paultzman on January 17, 2013, 08:06:28 PM

The ability to recognize when you are wrong or accept a position contrary to yours are virtues.

Great passive aggressive comeback!

I expected that from him... He was already baiting me with the "homer" comment and some others.  I've got his number.  Classic straw man attack.

Not baiting, just trying to present contrary point of view when I disagree with yours. Let's move on.

Not baiting, just trying to present contrary point of view when I disagree with yours. Let's move on.

No, you did not present a contrary point.  You try to disambiguate my point to make a totally unrelated point in order to falsely "win" a fictional argument.  It is a straw man argument.   In addition, by saying "let's move on" you once again are trying to win this fictional argument by dismissal.  Like I said, I'm on to you ...bud. 

P.S. Let's move on...  Just kidding! ;-)

Quote from: paultzman on January 17, 2013, 08:31:36 PM

Not baiting, just trying to present contrary point of view when I disagree with yours. Let's move on.

No, you did not present a contrary point.  You try to disambiguate my point to make a totally unlaced argument in order to falsely "win" a fictional argument.  In addition, by saying "let's move on" you once again are trying to win this fictional argument by dismissal.  Like I said, I'm on to you ...bud.

Suggest pm function rather than taking up time of others on board.

Quote from: MCNPA on January 17, 2013, 08:38:23 PM

Quote from: paultzman on January 17, 2013, 08:31:36 PM

Not baiting, just trying to present contrary point of view when I disagree with yours. Let's move on.

No, you did not present a contrary point.  You try to disambiguate my point to make a totally unlaced argument in order to falsely "win" a fictional argument.  In addition, by saying "let's move on" you once again are trying to win this fictional argument by dismissal.  Like I said, I'm on to you ...bud.

Suggest pm function rather than taking up time of others on board.

You decide to try to take me to task on these boards.  I answer you on these boards.  Plain and simple. 

 I'm amazed at how many people on these boards are in full fledged attack mode constantly on Lavin. We just came off the best win of the season where all these criticisms that have been spewed for months were dramatically improved upon.  Defense, rebounding, shooting, offense, pg play.... yet it is just constant criticism of the coaching.

 Doesn't it get boring after a while? Let's see what happens against Depaul before we go nuts again. 

- Homer   


 ps.  I'm a St. John's basketball fan...of course I'm a homer.

 

I'm amazed at how many people on these boards are in full fledged attack mode constantly on Lavin. We just came off the best win of the season where all these criticisms that have been spewed for months were dramatically improved upon.  Defense, rebounding, shooting, offense, pg play.... yet it is just constant criticism of the coaching.

 Doesn't it get boring after a while? Let's see what happens against Depaul before we go nuts again. 

- Homer   


 ps.  I'm a St. John's basketball fan...of course I'm a homer.

+1

I'm amazed at how many people on these boards are in full fledged attack mode constantly on Lavin. We just came off the best win of the season where all these criticisms that have been spewed for months were dramatically improved upon.  Defense, rebounding, shooting, offense, pg play.... yet it is just constant criticism of the coaching.

 Doesn't it get boring after a while? Let's see what happens against Depaul before we go nuts again. 

- Homer   


 ps.  I'm a St. John's basketball fan...of course I'm a homer.

Gotta blame somebody. Like any other coach Lavin isn't perfect and has made his fair share of mistakes and will continue to make some but i'm thrilled he is our head coach.

Quote from: boo3 on January 17, 2013, 08:46:37 PM

I'm amazed at how many people on these boards are in full fledged attack mode constantly on Lavin. We just came off the best win of the season where all these criticisms that have been spewed for months were dramatically improved upon.  Defense, rebounding, shooting, offense, pg play.... yet it is just constant criticism of the coaching.

 Doesn't it get boring after a while? Let's see what happens against Depaul before we go nuts again. 

- Homer   


 ps.  I'm a St. John's basketball fan...of course I'm a homer.

Gotta blame somebody. Like any other coach Lavin isn't perfect and has made his fair share of mistakes and will continue to make some but i'm thrilled he is our head coach.

  I get it. Lavin certainly isn't immune to mistakes and/or critiques, but it is constant and it gets old. To the point where it comes off as certain people are just blatantly rooting against him .

I think people are restless and occasionally I think he reminds people of Norm...the constant mentioniong how young this team is....I remember going to the garden fourish years ago and watching Syracuse dismantling the johnnies in front of all the Syracuse fans with my buddy who cheering for them right next to me. We end up going to a bar and I to into another Johnny fan who was upset and I said to her don't worry this team is still young wait until next year...I like Lavin, he has made St. John's revelant again to some extent but there is some déjà vu all over again...Bottom line to the story, is beat Syracuse 

I like lavin. He has been great for us. 2010 was amazing. We have some really good players to build on. Hope they all stay. I have to believe the guys on board who are defending him though didn't pay to see and sit through all of unc aschville, rutgers and Georgetown games. He is getting paid well.
We play 4 teams who suck. He has to win or be scrutinized.

At UCLA he consistently had final-4 talent yet was only a Sweet 16 coach with mediocre records and rankings.

And you knew they were "final-4 talent" how?  Did all the players have tatoos that said "final-4 talent" or did they have little tags sewn into their boxers like when your mother sent you to camp that said "final-4 talent"?

Disambiguate......? I give up. Help!

Disambiguate......? I give up. Help!

Disambiguate is to clarify, but I don't even think that is what I was trying to type.  This auto-correct really gets interesting when I mistype things on my iPhone or iPad.  I think it also put "lace" in there but not sure what that was supposed to be either.

No, its because Lavins m.o. is to underperform with the level of talent he has. At UCLA he consistently had final-4 talent yet was only a Sweet 16 coach with mediocre records and rankings.

Hate to disagree with you.   If you think 6 straight years of finishing in the top 25 was "mediocre rankings" more power to you.  However, there was only 1 other coach during that period who could claim the same run.  If you think 5 sweet 16s or better in 5 of 6 years was mediocre, again, same power to you.  But still only one other coach matched that accomplsihment.  And one minor history lesson (sorry, oft repeated here, but apparently missed by some):

1997:  Elite 8.  Lost to Minnesota in the Elite 8, when Center Jelani McCoy suffered a fractured sternum in the Sweet 16 game, and was unable to compete.
1998:  Upset higher ranked Michigan in the round of 32 game to reach the Sweet 16, but Baron Davis tore his Achillies Tendon in that game - and they lost withoug their point guard in the S16 game.
1999:  Center Dan Gadzuric broke his leg the week before the NCAA tourney, and Baron reinjured his foot - they lost by 2 pts in the first round.
2000:  Upset higher seeded Maryland to advance to the Sweet 16, as Earl Watson had 18 pts and 16 assists.   But Earl was elbowed in the last possesion before he went out of the game, and suffered a fractured eye socket.   He had surgery to repair it, and tried to play with a goggles/helmet contraption, but he was ineffective against Jamal Tinsley and Iowa State.  They were eliminated in the Sweet 16.
2001:  Eliminated in the Sweet 16 - no injuiries, just luck of the draw - they met evenutal champ Duke in that game (Jay Williams, Carlos Boozer, Chris Duhon, Mike Dunleavy, Shane Battier, et al).
2002:  Upset #2 seed Cincy in the round of 32 to advance to the Sweet 16 against Missouri - but team Captain Rico Hines suffered a career ending knee injury against the Bearcats.

2011:  Reached the NCAA tourney with St. Johns, but star Wing DJ Kennedy suffered an ACL tear in the final weekend before the dance and missed the tourney.  Team was eliminated in the first round.

No, its because Lavins m.o. is to underperform with the level of talent he has. At UCLA he consistently had final-4 talent yet was only a Sweet 16 coach with mediocre records and rankings.

Hate to disagree with you.   If you think 6 straight years of finishing in the top 25 was "mediocre rankings" more power to you.  However, there was only 1 other coach during that period who could claim the same run.  If you think 5 sweet 16s or better in 5 of 6 years was mediocre, again, same power to you.  But still only one other coach matched that accomplsihment.  And one minor history lesson (sorry, oft repeated here, but apparently missed by some):

1997:  Elite 8.  Lost to Minnesota in the Elite 8, when Center Jelani McCoy suffered a fractured sternum in the Sweet 16 game, and was unable to compete.
1998:  Upset higher ranked Michigan in the round of 32 game to reach the Sweet 16, but Baron Davis tore his Achillies Tendon in that game - and they lost withoug their point guard in the S16 game.
1999:  Center Dan Gadzuric broke his leg the week before the NCAA tourney, and Baron reinjured his foot - they lost by 2 pts in the first round.
2000:  Upset higher seeded Maryland to advance to the Sweet 16, as Earl Watson had 18 pts and 16 assists.   But Earl was elbowed in the last possesion before he went out of the game, and suffered a fractured eye socket.   He had surgery to repair it, and tried to play with a goggles/helmet contraption, but he was ineffective against Jamal Tinsley and Iowa State.  They were eliminated in the Sweet 16.
2001:  Eliminated in the Sweet 16 - no injuiries, just luck of the draw - they met evenutal champ Duke in that game (Jay Williams, Carlos Boozer, Chris Duhon, Mike Dunleavy, Shane Battier, et al).
2002:  Upset #2 seed Cincy in the round of 32 to advance to the Sweet 16 against Missouri - but team Captain Rico Hines suffered a career ending knee injury against the Bearcats.

2011:  Reached the NCAA tourney with St. Johns, but star Wing DJ Kennedy suffered an ACL tear in the final weekend before the dance and missed the tourney.  Team was eliminated in the first round.

I'm starting to get nervous that Lavin has tremendously bad luck with key players getting injured in the tournament.  If we make it, I guess we should armor-up D'Lo.