Rutgers (Away) Game Discussion

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 24, 2013, 02:27:44 AM

I thought Phil Greene's zero turnovers in 20 minutes was the key to our victory.  Way to go Mean Joe. 

No turnovers in 33 minutes for Mean Joe.  That's none in consecutive games now.  Had a much better game than the Aggie.  He really is rock solid with the ball.

Rock solid? He does nothing with the ball..so nothing good nor bad happens...he'd be great in the 4 corner offense with no shot clock...comparing him with the Aggie is ridiculous...

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 28, 2013, 12:57:02 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 24, 2013, 02:27:44 AM

I thought Phil Greene's zero turnovers in 20 minutes was the key to our victory.  Way to go Mean Joe. 

No turnovers in 33 minutes for Mean Joe.  That's none in consecutive games now.  Had a much better game than the Aggie.  He really is rock solid with the ball.

Rock solid? He does nothing with the ball..so nothing good nor bad happens...he'd be great in the 4 corner offense with no shot clock...comparing him with the Aggie is ridiculous...

Greene is not very good. But he's not horrible either. We have to look at him for what he is. A combo guard who has limited ball handling skills, almost no court vision, a decent mid-range shot off the dribble, a good floater and solid defense. I think Phil's biggest problem right now is lack of confidence. He is afraid to attack the basket, and he actually isn't bad at doing that, as he showed last year and the beginning of this year.

Comparing him to Branch is not a good comparison because 1) Branch is in a different league than him talent-wise and 2) They don't have very similar playing styles or skill sets.

Rock solid?

Yes, rock solid.  He's played 606 minutes with the ball in his hands a great deal and has only 27 turnovers. 0 turnovers past 2 games.  He's not a defensive minded center.  That's rock solid.
 

He does nothing with the ball..so nothing good nor bad happens

He lead the team in assists last year and is leading them again this year.  This is toooo easy.

comparing him with the Aggie is ridiculous...

Apparently you didn't watch the SH game.  That's Ok.  Just read the box score.  Who had the better game?  Go ahead.  You could say it. 

Quote from: section3 on January 28, 2013, 08:28:16 PM

Rock solid?

Yes, rock solid.  He's played 606 minutes with the ball in his hands a great deal and has only 27 turnovers. 0 turnovers past 2 games.  He's not a defensive minded center.  That's rock solid.
 

Quote

He does nothing with the ball..so nothing good nor bad happens

He lead the team in assists last year and is leading them again this year.  This is toooo easy.

Quote

comparing him with the Aggie is ridiculous...

Apparently you didn't watch the SH game.  That's Ok.  Just read the box score.  Who had the better game?  Go ahead.  You could say it. 

Does a last second heave after 34 seconds of dribbling not count as a turnover

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Yes, rock solid.  He's played 606 minutes with the ball in his hands a great deal and has only 27 turnovers. 0 turnovers past 2 games.  He's not a defensive minded center.  That's rock solid.
 
That's like babysitting, and being proud the children are still alive once the parents come home.

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

It's not that he's a bad player. He's a bad point guard. Those saying he's a bad player, are asking too much of him. He's not an all star, but he's beginning to contribute more. If his jumpers keeps falling like that, we'll win some games. If he goes 1-8 from 3 vs SU, we're done.

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

True Moose, but Greene has become the whipping boy du jour (i.e., human circle). 

Quote from: Moose on January 29, 2013, 11:24:05 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

True Moose, but Greene has become the whipping boy du jour (i.e., human circle). 

Every team has one.  Its inescapable.

If you were one of these players reading the purely negative hits on this board you would have little reason to feel any affection for our fans. There is a way to critique one aspect of a player's game while recognizing his good points. Balance is  key. If one of these players were your son, how would you feel reading some of the purely negative posts on this board? The obsessive negativity  is really unnecessary and inappropriate. Sure you can point up areas where someone can improve but use some finesse. A good rule of thunb is to not write anything you would not say to the player's face in a personal conversation.

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

I am not against critquing players.  But to me the stuff about Phil has just been piling on lately especially considering they have won 4 in a row.

He was going thru a slump no doubt.  It happens and as others point out he is not a true point guard and he is not 100% healthy. 

That's all cut him some slack.  I mean do we really have to complain about him after a 10 point no turnover performance in which they won the game?

Greene doesn't get credited w a turnover when he runs nothing and when shot clock is almost out, he forces Harrison or Sampson to take a low percentage shot or force a bad pass. Numbers lie. You gotta watch the entire game to critique it.

Let me see. This is the same fan base that criticizes our best player and documents his every eye roll. In fact one brain surgeon suggested that Harrison should come off the bench. So it is ok to have threads bashing our far and away best player, but we should ignore the fact Greene has been putrid? Not my opinion mind you, the stat sheet's.

Quote from: Moose on January 29, 2013, 11:24:05 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

I am not against critquing players.  But to me the stuff about Phil has just been piling on lately especially considering they have won 4 in a row.

He was going thru a slump no doubt.  It happens and as others point out he is not a true point guard and he is not 100% healthy. 

That's all cut him some slack.  I mean do we really have to complain about him after a 10 point no turnover performance in which they won the game?

The problem is certain posters think Phil is the best think since sliced bread.  And if he gets thru a game with less than 2 turnovers and shoots above 35% without slipping on the ground he needs to be 1st team BE.  So they egg on those who call him Dribbles or the Human Circle and it ensues.  I'm the first one to say we don't need to compare him and Branch every game.  But if someone says the offense runs better thru Branch, the Greene machine doesn't need to start comparing numbers to numbers because like you said they have won 4 in a row.

Also he hasn't been healthy since NJIT. 

I agree with Moose.  I am one of the "Greene Haters".  I don't like his game and would rather his minutes went to someone else, but do I cheer for him? Yes.  Am I glad when he makes a few shots? Yes.  Do I want to see him succeed? Yes.  It is not my intention to come on the board and trash Greene, but when it is warranted I will and when he plays well then I will eat crow and compliment him.  Simple as that

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:36:41 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 29, 2013, 11:24:05 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

I am not against critquing players.  But to me the stuff about Phil has just been piling on lately especially considering they have won 4 in a row.

He was going thru a slump no doubt.  It happens and as others point out he is not a true point guard and he is not 100% healthy. 

That's all cut him some slack.  I mean do we really have to complain about him after a 10 point no turnover performance in which they won the game?

The problem is certain posters think Phil is the best think since sliced bread.  And if he gets thru a game with less than 2 turnovers and shoots above 35% without slipping on the ground he needs to be 1st team BE.  So they egg on those who call him Dribbles or the Human Circle and it ensues.  I'm the first one to say we don't need to compare him and Branch every game.  But if someone says the offense runs better thru Branch, the Greene machine doesn't need to start comparing numbers to numbers because like you said they have won 4 in a row.

Also he hasn't been healthy since NJIT.

Well I guess I don't read the baord that closely because I don't know people who think Phil is that good.  I do think he is the type of player who can play major minutes on a good team that plays in the post season.  I like his stroke and his long arms can cause match up problems.  But he is also young and prone to slumps.

But again SJU has won 4 in a row.  I can't bring myself to complain about a lot at this point.  That's just me.

Quote from: Moose on January 29, 2013, 11:40:12 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:36:41 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 29, 2013, 11:24:05 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

I am not against critquing players.  But to me the stuff about Phil has just been piling on lately especially considering they have won 4 in a row.

He was going thru a slump no doubt.  It happens and as others point out he is not a true point guard and he is not 100% healthy. 

That's all cut him some slack.  I mean do we really have to complain about him after a 10 point no turnover performance in which they won the game?

The problem is certain posters think Phil is the best think since sliced bread.  And if he gets thru a game with less than 2 turnovers and shoots above 35% without slipping on the ground he needs to be 1st team BE.  So they egg on those who call him Dribbles or the Human Circle and it ensues.  I'm the first one to say we don't need to compare him and Branch every game.  But if someone says the offense runs better thru Branch, the Greene machine doesn't need to start comparing numbers to numbers because like you said they have won 4 in a row.

Also he hasn't been healthy since NJIT.

Well I guess I don't read the baord that closely because I don't know people who think Phil is that good.  I do think he is the type of player who can paly major minutes on a good team that plays in the post season.  I like his stroke and his long arms can cause math up problems.  But he is also young and prone to slumps.

But again SJU has won 4 in a row.  I can't bring myself to complain about a lot at this point.  That's just me.

He is the perfect 6th man to me.  He looks slow but I'm sure his hip is seriously effecting that.  His tear drop in the lane is so sweet to watch.  He still can't keep a D honest from 3 and he takes good care of the ball, almost too good though.

He was the lowest ranked kid throw a ton of minutes and even more once Nuri left.  He is growing up too fast.   He needs to stay healthy and I think we would all be happier.

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:46:09 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 29, 2013, 11:40:12 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:36:41 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 29, 2013, 11:24:05 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on January 29, 2013, 11:18:27 AM

I'm with Carmine on this.  I think people are getting carried away with the Phil Greene negative stuff.

Clearly he was slumping offensively lately.  But he is a solid player for SJU who is important whether coming off the bench or starting.

I also like the fact that Phil doesn't pout and doesn't carry on even when he is struggling.  In other words he is really good character guy on the team.  And the team has won 4 straight.

I don't understand why we need to be negative towards him or anyone at this point.

Why can't we critique a players game though.  Are people coming up with some nicknames and driving points home?  Yea.  But that is nothing different than anyone else that posts on these sites and drives home their points.  Same as those who rip Harrison and his attitude, Obekpa and his FT's, Branch and his TO's, Jones and his disappearance, Marco and his lack of foot speed, etc....

I am not against critquing players.  But to me the stuff about Phil has just been piling on lately especially considering they have won 4 in a row.

He was going thru a slump no doubt.  It happens and as others point out he is not a true point guard and he is not 100% healthy. 

That's all cut him some slack.  I mean do we really have to complain about him after a 10 point no turnover performance in which they won the game?

The problem is certain posters think Phil is the best think since sliced bread.  And if he gets thru a game with less than 2 turnovers and shoots above 35% without slipping on the ground he needs to be 1st team BE.  So they egg on those who call him Dribbles or the Human Circle and it ensues.  I'm the first one to say we don't need to compare him and Branch every game.  But if someone says the offense runs better thru Branch, the Greene machine doesn't need to start comparing numbers to numbers because like you said they have won 4 in a row.

Also he hasn't been healthy since NJIT.

Well I guess I don't read the baord that closely because I don't know people who think Phil is that good.  I do think he is the type of player who can paly major minutes on a good team that plays in the post season.  I like his stroke and his long arms can cause math up problems.  But he is also young and prone to slumps.

But again SJU has won 4 in a row.  I can't bring myself to complain about a lot at this point.  That's just me.

He is the perfect 6th man to me.  He looks slow but I'm sure his hip is seriously effecting that.  His tear drop in the lane is so sweet to watch.  He still can't keep a D honest from 3 and he takes good care of the ball, almost too good though.

He was the lowest ranked kid throw a ton of minutes and even more once Nuri left.  He is growing up too fast.   He needs to stay healthy and I think we would all be happier.

Exactly too.  He was the lowest ranked kid and there was a feeling when he was recruited that he would be a bench player his first two years.

To me he is like a John Beilein 4 year kid.  Not highly recruited by anyone butafter 4 years you look back and say he was a really solid player for SJU.

The problem is certain posters think Phil is the best think since sliced bread.  And if he gets thru a game with less than 2 turnovers and shoots above 35% without slipping on the ground he needs to be 1st team BE.  So they egg on those who call him Dribbles or the Human Circle and it ensues.  I'm the first one to say we don't need to compare him and Branch every game.  But if someone says the offense runs better thru Branch, the Greene machine doesn't need to start comparing numbers to numbers because like you said they have won 4 in a row.

Also he hasn't been healthy since NJIT. 


Moose
Isn't that what these sites are about? The back and forth. Unfortunately we don't root for Duke, so we can't all come on here and  agree on how great everything is. As a rule I don't like to bash the players and I really have only done it to three guys and I least I try to do it in a fun way. Unless Dave, whoever runs Redmen and fun(HAAAAA) agree to outlaw bashing of players it is going to continue. Guys like Burrell(good player) and Harrison (shade under great player) have gotten bashed, so under those rules Greene is def fair game.