Phil Greene Off the Ball

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 01, 2013, 01:18:38 PM

Are you kidding me carmine? You bring up the play in which Phil made the pass to branch 4 seconds to late?.

I think you are getting confused Mase.  4 seconds is the legnth of an average love making session between you and your domestic partner.  The play I was describing had the square up in the air for a jump shot attempt,  showing tremendous court awareness - he realizes in the last split second that the Aggie had become free under the basket, showing great athleticism and timing, he changes his mind instantaneously in mid-air and rifles right on time a perfect feed to Branch underneath.  Unfortunately, Jamal was too short and didn't go up strong and got his shot squaapped - twice.

Everybit as beautiful a feed as the Obekpa gem earlier.  That's the play I was referring to.

First, we are thinking of the same play, you must have missed branch just as your BF phil did wide open on the cut. Seriously, go back and watch it, it was obvious. Secondly, 4 seconds is giving me far to much credit

Larry Wright shot a lot of threes. His 3 point % is acceptable. That is a perfect example of a factor skewing stats

I have no stats to support this but Greene takes a lot of long jumpers.  Should he drive to the basket more? Yes. We saw his sweet spot Wednesday night and once teams start to recognize it more he will have more lanes to the hoop to drive.  Right now the book on St Johns is to pack it in and make them shoot.  Phil is one of the few guys we have who can help change this IMO.

Phil obviously needs to improve.  Who knows the extent of his injury and how it is affecting his game?  Who is going to fill the roles he has to right now?  Harrison and Branch treat the ball like it is on fire.  Greene takes care of the ball better than most anyone in the country.  Who else is going to create shots when the defense is all over Harrison?  My biggest problem with Greene is his defense, but I think his offense will be just fine if he stays confident.

Who knows the extent of his injury and how it is affecting his game?

I bet Lavin does. If the injury is serious why is Lavin risking his health by playing him at all? If the injury is affecting his game why isn't he convalescing instead of playing 43 minutes against DePaul? I thought we had all this depth and all sorts of options and interchangeable parts and so on? Instead it turns out that we have to wheel poor crippled Phil Greene out there because nobody else can "do what he does"  - dribble around aimlessly and shoot 30 percent from the floor? Not buying it.

Quote from: Marillac on February 01, 2013, 11:41:04 PM

Who knows the extent of his injury and how it is affecting his game?

I bet Lavin does. If the injury is serious why is Lavin risking his health by playing him at all? If the injury is affecting his game why isn't he convalescing instead of playing 43 minutes against DePaul? I thought we had all this depth and all sorts of options and interchangeable parts and so on? Instead it turns out that we have to wheel poor crippled Phil Greene out there because nobody else can "do what he does"  - dribble around aimlessly and shoot 30 percent from the floor? Not buying it.

Shooting mechanics can be thrown off by very minor injuries.  I think Phil definitely has to improve, but I realize that he is capable of creating some very good looks for himself on the offensive end.  Harrison and Branch are the only other two guys on the team that can consistently do that, and I don't think Branch does it enough.

He didn't play trerrible, but after great start I think he finished 5-15.

He didn't play trerrible, but after great start I think he finished 5-15.

Got the ball to the rim well. Shot the ball well from the perimeter and missed some shots late in the shot clock. Rich man's Geno

Ordinary player.

I actually thought Phil played good today, would love to see that kind of performance consistently

As everyone has beaten to death, he is fine off the ball when we have other options teams are focusing on and he can get some open mid range jumpers.  He isn't a PG at this point by any means, and doesn't push the ball well in the open floor.  That is why Branch's injury will be an absolute killer for us if he is out for any prolonged period.  Just having Branch on the floor with D-lo, Sampson and Dom gives us soooo much of a better chance offensively.

He's fine off the ball?   He's been here for 50 games now and he shoots 25% from 3pt, and 35% from the field.
I really don't want to beat up on PG, I have nothing against him personally, and I wasn't part of the original bash-Phil Fan Club;  but on what planet are those acceptable numbers from a shooting guard? 


He is NOT fine when he's off the ball.   He's below average.   That doesn't mean I think he kills baby seals on the weekend, or curses at his grandmother....but it is what it is.    We've seen him in both roles of a "combo" guard, and he's not particularly good at either.

But, as Carmine will quickly point out - he's not the only problem.   You can live with a below average guard, if your center and forward pick up the slack offensively.  But, we get no offense from Obekpa, Sampson hasn't shot well of late, and Dangelo was ice cold.   

We lose by 20+ without Greene today.  You guys need to get off this kid's back.  His squad stands around and three guys on the court can't score the ball without someone creating a shot for them.  Greene creates his own looks.  He is run into the ground with too many minutes and has no legs to finish games.  80 total minutes the last two games.  Coach has got to get Greene so rest. 

Let me rephrase Desco.  For purposes of our team this year, he is far more useful to us off the ball then logging major minutes at the point.  That is all I meant.  As Moose pointed out in this thread or another, with a healthy Branch, we could perhaps give Marco some of Greene's minutes.  Or when Branch is not playing well (like the Depaul road game), we go with Branch/D-Lo in the back court and Dom at the 3.

+1 Marillac.  Less minutes will equal more productivity, I bet. 

Honestly if Branch is out for a few games, I'd be inclined to let D-Lo log major minutes at the point, and give Marco some of Greene's minutes.

Let me rephrase Desco.  For purposes of our team this year, he is far more useful to us off the ball then logging major minutes at the point.  That is all I meant.  As Moose pointed out in this thread or another, with a healthy Branch, we could perhaps give Marco some of Greene's minutes.  Or when Branch is not playing well (like the Depaul road game), we go with Branch/D-Lo in the back court and Dom at the 3.

you must mean the depaul home game in regards to jamal

Phil Greene off the ball? Maybe, but would prefer him off the court!. Not really, just joking, couldn't resist. I would like to apologize to all those I may have offended.

I meant in my post above when Greene wasn't off to a hot start (like the Depaul road game), we had the option of going with the Branch/D-Lo backcourt and Dom at the 3.

Phil by the number-break the season into 3 phases: Phase A-the first 7 games; Phase B-the next 9 games, prior to the 5 game win streak; and Phase C-the last six games including 5 win streak plus Gtown.
Phase A 47% overall; 32% from 3PT line and 52% inside the arc.  FT's 7-10
Phase B 19% overall; 17% from 3PY line.  FT's 1-3
Phase C 33% overall; 16% from 3PT line and 40% inside the arc.  FT's 7-9

Something happened in Phase B that is out of the norm.  The rumor that he has been injured could be true.  One thing he is not is a 3PT shooter at this phase of his career but when he was playing well in the first 7 games it seemed that he had shown improvement from the prior year. 

For the balance of year, hopefully he concentrates on shooting inside the arc (last 5 games he has averaged 2 three point shots per game vs the 5  previous games where he averaged 5 shots beyond the arc) and dishing to the open wing on BOTH his left and right.

Phil by the number-break the season into 3 phases: Phase A-the first 7 games; Phase B-the next 9 games, prior to the 5 game win streak; and Phase C-the last six games including 5 win streak plus Gtown.
Phase A 47% overall; 32% from 3PT line and 52% inside the arc.  FT's 7-10
Phase B 19% overall; 17% from 3PY line.  FT's 1-3
Phase C 33% overall; 16% from 3PT line and 40% inside the arc.  FT's 7-9

Something happened in Phase B that is out of the norm.  The rumor that he has been injured could be true.  One thing he is not is a 3PT shooter at this phase of his career but when he was playing well in the first 7 games it seemed that he had shown improvement from the prior year. 

For the balance of year, hopefully he concentrates on shooting inside the arc (last 5 games he has averaged 2 three point shots per game vs the 5  previous games where he averaged 5 shots beyond the arc) and dishing to the open wing on BOTH his left and right.

I could be wrong but hasn't the injury been around since the beginning of the year?

Quote from: redslope on February 04, 2013, 11:59:56 AM

Phil by the number-break the season into 3 phases: Phase A-the first 7 games; Phase B-the next 9 games, prior to the 5 game win streak; and Phase C-the last six games including 5 win streak plus Gtown.
Phase A 47% overall; 32% from 3PT line and 52% inside the arc.  FT's 7-10
Phase B 19% overall; 17% from 3PY line.  FT's 1-3
Phase C 33% overall; 16% from 3PT line and 40% inside the arc.  FT's 7-9

Something happened in Phase B that is out of the norm.  The rumor that he has been injured could be true.  One thing he is not is a 3PT shooter at this phase of his career but when he was playing well in the first 7 games it seemed that he had shown improvement from the prior year. 

For the balance of year, hopefully he concentrates on shooting inside the arc (last 5 games he has averaged 2 three point shots per game vs the 5  previous games where he averaged 5 shots beyond the arc) and dishing to the open wing on BOTH his left and right.

I could be wrong but hasn't the injury been around since the beginning of the year?

The first time the hip was mentioned was pre game USF and Lavin said it happened the previous game, NJIT.