Next Season

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 26, 2013, 04:22:28 PM

Too many brothers post too many words in they posts.

No one's gonna read that.

Thank you, Choz.  I read 2 sentences and move on.

Unluckily the instructions on how to use the quote button are three sentences.

Quote from: simplyred on March 26, 2013, 05:49:53 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 26, 2013, 04:22:28 PM

Too many brothers post too many words in they posts.

No one's gonna read that.

Thank you, Choz.  I read 2 sentences and move on.

Unluckily the instructions on how to use the quote button are three sentences.

Thanks for the help, fun.  Typed on an Ipad. Doesn't always work out well.  I went back and fixed it.

Like most people I'm trying to find something to distract me from the meaningless void between birth and death.

Written like a true existentialist.

I think Hollywood played the walkons to send a message to scholarship players for next season that playing time is earned and not guaranteed.  Not a big fan of taking any action that compromises your chances this season for next season.

- Once upon a time it was popular thought here that we should root for losses as that would increase the chances of Norm getting fired. 
Hated it.

- Perhaps Double G was red shirted this season to assure a strong front line on a veteran team more posed for a run next season?
Hated it.

- Perhaps D'lo was let go this season to get him mentally on board to be a entirely bought in team Mvp next season?
Hated it.

- Walkon gate and personnel decisions made to show potential recruits big minutes are available right away here?
Hated it.

What about us the fans?  To us; late season games, BE tournament games and NIT games are not "meaningless".  Doesn't our very presence and wallets deserve an absolute 110% effort from coaches, players and staff to win this season, this tournament, this game, this half - right now?

I'm not getting any younger and I want to win yesterday...not tomorrow!

This season?
Hated it!

Quote from: shamsman2 on March 26, 2013, 10:18:43 AM

Your point being what? That Lavin is a chowderhead and simpleton, focused only on his own future, hired the 3 stooges as asst. coaches, an old guy who is on the bench for show and is gliding by on personality only. Well you may be right, time will tel.l won't it. Others here have doubts too and more patience perhaps, but not you. Have not read from anyone about "Lavin being infallible". While MCNPA is a 30% on the anxiety meter, where would you place yourself? Anxious people love certainty.

I always thought I was a pretty good writer and yet people are continually asking me what my point is. A less confident person would perhaps  re evaluate his self assessment. I am content to soldier on.

My point is: that the same people who read Harrison's tattoos like they're hieroglyphics and psychoanalyze him every time he blinks ignore or mock the idea that Lavin - a celebrity who suffered a very public humiliation at UCLA - might have some issues of his own and that those issues might manifest themselves in the way he behaves professionally. The very idea that he might suffer from the same emotions and neuroses as every other homo sapien is dismissed as the fantasy of a conspiracy theorist.

I don't suffer any anxiety about Saint John's. None. I don't even consider myself a "fan." I've had the fan beaten out of me over 30 years. Now I just follow the basketball team. It's kind of like bird watching. I don't root for the yellow bellied sapsuckers, I just like to look at them. The benefit of that POV is that when a see a grackle I don't mistake it for a bald eagle.

If you don't think Lavin is sliding by on his personality you're not paying attention. His personality is his strength: that's why he's a good recruiter and good with the media. If he wasn't telegenic and charming in his own vapid way the commentary would be quite different. People would be talking about his suits and parsing his post game comments. Lavin and Norm were both right when they played the "we're young" card. The same comments that were roundly mocked during the last administration are now greeted with knowing nods of the head. That's the cult of personality. It's not the speaker, it's the listener.

I don't understand how patience is relevant. I'm talking about what's happening in front of my eyes, today. Perhaps you mean that you're willing to categorize this season of atrocious basketball as something other than atrocious merely because next year the results might be different. I didn't expect this team to do much and wasn't surprised when it didn't. And I expect next year to be better. But I don't see what that has to do with why the walk ons are playing or why Dom Pointer is punching people or the wisdom of calling time outs while your team is on a run or any of the other questionable things that went on this season. Those things are troubling regardless.

I haven't called for Lavin's head - and in fact think the idea of calling for his head absurd. In the first place nobody cares what I think and in the second if Lavin were to leave now it would be catastrophic (relatively speaking obviously). No one except the lunatic fringe thinks Lavin should go anywhere. No one but the lunatic fringe thinks the program is not better off than it was 5 years ago. But on the other side of the lunatic fringe there are people who think everything is swell. Everything is not swell. It may be that the not swell bits are mere bumps in the road. But it may be also that they're sink holes. My point is: can Lavin tell the difference.

You are a trip! We agree on more than we disagree. I realize there are current issues that must be addressed, but believe they will or else. By patience I take a longer view, because turnarounds are messy, so my expectations are different than yours in the near term. I see progress in small steps, realize when you have to recruit 9 players in one year there is going to be trouble. So I am not surprised what has happened, par for the course. Next 2 years will really tell where we are.

But chowderhead? seriously. Enjoy your posts though you lay it all on the line, especially about yourself.

Just to give you guys an idea of how different we are from Nova in terms of student population...only because it was brought up how similar we are. I promise this is the last I talk about Nova.

SJ Student Population
***31% of students live on campus***

Villanova Student Population
***70% of students live on campus***

Those are the only numbers that matter in your list.

Quote from: RedStormyNight on March 26, 2013, 05:52:16 PM

Just to give you guys an idea of how different we are from Nova in terms of student population...only because it was brought up how similar we are. I promise this is the last I talk about Nova.

SJ Student Population
***31% of students live on campus***

Villanova Student Population
***70% of students live on campus***

Those are the only numbers that matter in your list.

Doubtful. The more diversity on a given campus, the more different views there including different hobbies and priorities i.e. seeing a soccer game instead of a basketball game. The demographics certainly play a role. To what extent is not known empirically. If you go to our games, take a look at our student section. If there are 50 students in it, maybe 5-7 are minorities. Whites are way overrepresented at basketball events...they only make 30 something percent of the entire student body, yet I would estimate anywhere from 75%-80% of basketball game attendance. I'm not implying anything or winking and nudging...just reporting the truth.

Basic flaw in the demographic (read race) makeup argument Joe presents is that due to sheer student size the 37.7% of St Johns students = 7,043 white students on the Queens campus alone, the 70% of total students at Villanova = 7,438 white students at Nova.  I guess those extra 395 white kids at Nova make all the difference.  Especially since we KNOW minorities don't like basketball.  Just a dumb argument if you know how to do basic math.

There are smart ones that he tangentially addressed.  The primary one is that for the most part St Johns is still a commuter school, only 30% of students live on campus or campus affiliated housing.  Makes a big difference.  It is also why alum/booster attendance at STJ is lower than most other schools.  There's great fans/supporters of their university on these boards but for the most part St Johns alums don't have the connection to their school that say an alum of a big state school or an ivy might have.  It's just a fact of life.  Not much anyone can do about it.

Also, it would be safe to say that the average Nova student has more disposable income than the average St Johns student based purely on the charters of the schools.  Joe's outlined often how hard it is to pay for his beer AND a ticket to game and with him being one of the majority living off campus, well let's just say the gas prices are too damn high. 

If the team wins then casual onlookers that Joe refers to, and I don't call them fans, will come out and drive up attendance but STJ is still never going to outdraw Dayton and that says something.

Basic flaw in the demographic (read race) makeup argument Joe presents is that due to sheer student size the 37.7% of St Johns students = 7,043 white students on the Queens campus alone, the 70% of total students at Villanova = 7,438 white students at Nova.  I guess those extra 395 white kids at Nova make all the difference.  Especially since we KNOW minorities don't like basketball.  Just a dumb argument if you know how to do basic math.

There are smart ones that he tangentially addressed.  The primary one is that for the most part St Johns is still a commuter school, only 30% of students live on campus or campus affiliated housing.  Makes a big difference.  It is also why alum/booster attendance at STJ is lower than most other schools.  There's great fans/supporters of their university on these boards but for the most part St Johns alums don't have the connection to their school that say an alum of a big state school or an ivy might have.  It's just a fact of life.  Not much anyone can do about it.

Also, it would be safe to say that the average Nova student has more disposable income than the average St Johns student based purely on the charters of the schools.  Joe's outlined often how hard it is to pay for his beer AND a ticket to game and with him being one of the majority living off campus, well let's just say the gas prices are too damn high. 

If the team wins then casual onlookers that Joe refers to, and I don't call them fans, will come out and drive up attendance but STJ is still never going to outdraw Dayton and that says something.

Fair, but the part you leave out is the nonexistent "unity index". If one could be created, Nova's would be way higher than ours and no doubt the vast diversity would have an influence. It's simple logic that a bunch of people who are from similar cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds will be more likely to share the same interests, thus creating more unity. There is no typical SJ student. However, you can make the case there is a typical Nova student. White, from the suburbs, upper middle class, borderline Ivy intelligence, etc. At SJ you can be a rich white kid from the north shore of Nassau sitting next to a minority from the south Bronx who is the first in his family to ever attend college. Sorry, but the unity factor is going to be less when this is the case.

Humans are tribal creatures. Most people self segregate in suburbs across America volunteerily, so I don't understand why this is foreign stuff to people. It doesn't sound politically correct, but we all know it's true. During undergrad I can tell you that students were VERY close as friends and showed a ton of school spirit. The connection to the school was deep and everyone understood each other since we were all essentially carbon copies of each other from similar neighborhoods. Not saying that's good or bad, just saying how it affects these things. There is no question diversity adversely impacts student body unity and thus school spirit, the only question is to what extent.

Quote from: yankcranker on March 26, 2013, 08:05:21 PM

Basic flaw in the demographic (read race) makeup argument Joe presents is that due to sheer student size the 37.7% of St Johns students = 7,043 white students on the Queens campus alone, the 70% of total students at Villanova = 7,438 white students at Nova.  I guess those extra 395 white kids at Nova make all the difference.  Especially since we KNOW minorities don't like basketball.  Just a dumb argument if you know how to do basic math.

There are smart ones that he tangentially addressed.  The primary one is that for the most part St Johns is still a commuter school, only 30% of students live on campus or campus affiliated housing.  Makes a big difference.  It is also why alum/booster attendance at STJ is lower than most other schools.  There's great fans/supporters of their university on these boards but for the most part St Johns alums don't have the connection to their school that say an alum of a big state school or an ivy might have.  It's just a fact of life.  Not much anyone can do about it.

Also, it would be safe to say that the average Nova student has more disposable income than the average St Johns student based purely on the charters of the schools.  Joe's outlined often how hard it is to pay for his beer AND a ticket to game and with him being one of the majority living off campus, well let's just say the gas prices are too damn high. 

If the team wins then casual onlookers that Joe refers to, and I don't call them fans, will come out and drive up attendance but STJ is still never going to outdraw Dayton and that says something.

Fair, but the part you leave out is the nonexistent "unity index". If one could be created, Nova's would be way higher than ours and no doubt the vast diversity would have an influence. It's simple logic that a bunch of people who are from similar cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds will be more likely to share the same interests, thus creating more unity. There is no typical SJ student.

Back in the day when I was in school there was.  Guido's&Guidette's.

Heck this Irishman even put a gold chain license plate on my toyota corolla back then in school

we definitely have some questions going into next season.  my biggest complaint with lavin is how he doesn't appreciate the importance of having guards on the team.  we only had one true point guard on this team, if that, and he was available for only a handful of games.  thats rediculous.  point guard is the most important position on the team.  he's the quarterback.  u need three point guards on the roster.  and experimenting with harrison and pointer at the point is a very bad idea.  not only are they not true point guards, but the move creates holes at the wings as well.  and at shooting guard, its a better situation...but still, if harrison is not in it gets ugly real fast.  and we still have this problem next year...unless we get jordan, which is a longshot.

Quote from: yankcranker on March 26, 2013, 08:05:21 PM

Basic flaw in the demographic (read race) makeup argument Joe presents is that due to sheer student size the 37.7% of St Johns students = 7,043 white students on the Queens campus alone, the 70% of total students at Villanova = 7,438 white students at Nova.  I guess those extra 395 white kids at Nova make all the difference.  Especially since we KNOW minorities don't like basketball.  Just a dumb argument if you know how to do basic math.

There are smart ones that he tangentially addressed.  The primary one is that for the most part St Johns is still a commuter school, only 30% of students live on campus or campus affiliated housing.  Makes a big difference.  It is also why alum/booster attendance at STJ is lower than most other schools.  There's great fans/supporters of their university on these boards but for the most part St Johns alums don't have the connection to their school that say an alum of a big state school or an ivy might have.  It's just a fact of life.  Not much anyone can do about it.

Also, it would be safe to say that the average Nova student has more disposable income than the average St Johns student based purely on the charters of the schools.  Joe's outlined often how hard it is to pay for his beer AND a ticket to game and with him being one of the majority living off campus, well let's just say the gas prices are too damn high. 

If the team wins then casual onlookers that Joe refers to, and I don't call them fans, will come out and drive up attendance but STJ is still never going to outdraw Dayton and that says something.

Fair, but the part you leave out is the nonexistent "unity index". If one could be created, Nova's would be way higher than ours and no doubt the vast diversity would have an influence. It's simple logic that a bunch of people who are from similar cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds will be more likely to share the same interests, thus creating more unity. There is no typical SJ student. However, you can make the case there is a typical Nova student. White, from the suburbs, upper middle class, borderline Ivy intelligence, etc. At SJ you can be a rich white kid from the north shore of Nassau sitting next to a minority from the south Bronx who is the first in his family to ever attend college. Sorry, but the unity factor is going to be less when this is the case.

Humans are tribal creatures. Most people self segregate in suburbs across America volunteerily, so I don't understand why this is foreign stuff to people. It doesn't sound politically correct, but we all know it's true. During undergrad I can tell you that students were VERY close as friends and showed a ton of school spirit. The connection to the school was deep and everyone understood each other since we were all essentially carbon copies of each other from similar neighborhoods. Not saying that's good or bad, just saying how it affects these things. There is no question diversity adversely impacts student body unity and thus school spirit, the only question is to what extent.

So you're a segregationist?  But seriously, that Unity can transcend race, religion, socio economic status or even gender.  But again the commuter aspect of the university also hurts that.  On a traditional residential campus this is much easier because you live side by side with folks different than you but when you finish class and immediately jump in your car to return to your boring sheltered white bread life it is a bit more difficult.  I may have been raised in the suburbs but I've lived an urban lifestyle since college.  And let me say I am so happy that my kids classes and even circle of friends looks more like the UN than Long Island.  I'd be very sad if it was any different. 

The Unity will come when the Winning comes. Gotta have something to unify around.

Quote from: RedStormyNight on March 26, 2013, 08:17:27 PM

Quote from: yankcranker on March 26, 2013, 08:05:21 PM

Basic flaw in the demographic (read race) makeup argument Joe presents is that due to sheer student size the 37.7% of St Johns students = 7,043 white students on the Queens campus alone, the 70% of total students at Villanova = 7,438 white students at Nova.  I guess those extra 395 white kids at Nova make all the difference.  Especially since we KNOW minorities don't like basketball.  Just a dumb argument if you know how to do basic math.

There are smart ones that he tangentially addressed.  The primary one is that for the most part St Johns is still a commuter school, only 30% of students live on campus or campus affiliated housing.  Makes a big difference.  It is also why alum/booster attendance at STJ is lower than most other schools.  There's great fans/supporters of their university on these boards but for the most part St Johns alums don't have the connection to their school that say an alum of a big state school or an ivy might have.  It's just a fact of life.  Not much anyone can do about it.

Also, it would be safe to say that the average Nova student has more disposable income than the average St Johns student based purely on the charters of the schools.  Joe's outlined often how hard it is to pay for his beer AND a ticket to game and with him being one of the majority living off campus, well let's just say the gas prices are too damn high. 

If the team wins then casual onlookers that Joe refers to, and I don't call them fans, will come out and drive up attendance but STJ is still never going to outdraw Dayton and that says something.

Fair, but the part you leave out is the nonexistent "unity index". If one could be created, Nova's would be way higher than ours and no doubt the vast diversity would have an influence. It's simple logic that a bunch of people who are from similar cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds will be more likely to share the same interests, thus creating more unity. There is no typical SJ student. However, you can make the case there is a typical Nova student. White, from the suburbs, upper middle class, borderline Ivy intelligence, etc. At SJ you can be a rich white kid from the north shore of Nassau sitting next to a minority from the south Bronx who is the first in his family to ever attend college. Sorry, but the unity factor is going to be less when this is the case.

Humans are tribal creatures. Most people self segregate in suburbs across America volunteerily, so I don't understand why this is foreign stuff to people. It doesn't sound politically correct, but we all know it's true. During undergrad I can tell you that students were VERY close as friends and showed a ton of school spirit. The connection to the school was deep and everyone understood each other since we were all essentially carbon copies of each other from similar neighborhoods. Not saying that's good or bad, just saying how it affects these things. There is no question diversity adversely impacts student body unity and thus school spirit, the only question is to what extent.

So you're a segregationist?  But seriously, that Unity can transcend race, religion, socio economic status or even gender.  But again the commuter aspect of the university also hurts that.  On a traditional residential campus this is much easier because you live side by side with folks different than you but when you finish class and immediately jump in your car to return to your boring sheltered white bread life it is a bit more difficult.  I may have been raised in the suburbs but I've lived an urban lifestyle since college.  And let me say I am so happy that my kids classes and even circle of friends looks more like the UN than Long Island.  I'd be very sad if it was any different.

No. I'm a free associationalist. In other words, if you want to go to an all white school that's fine and you shouldn't take crap from anyone for it. If that's what you are comfortable with by all means do it. On the other hand, if you want to go to a diverse campus like SJ for school, that is fine as well and by all means do it. It just depends on the person. Some people want diversity, some don't. Neither is right...it's about preference. My view is that it just shouldn't be forced on anyone whether they only associate with whites or with a diverse population. Obviously I went to SJ by choice knowing it was diverse so I don't mind. Just saying in general.

That's your choice for your kids, good for you that you are proud of their group of friends reflecting the UN. Just remember that many people don't think there's anything wrong with living on LI thus the massive population here. People came here to escape the city crime and stuffy living quarters 50-60 years ago. I like being halfway between NYC and the Hamptons. It allows me to do whatever I want and have the best of both worlds. I can pick if I want an action packed city night or a nice relaxing day at Robert Moses/the Hamptons. I agree with you that unity can transcend race and different cultures, but that's often a utopian idea that doesn't have much evidence in the real world. Think of the most diverse cities...are they really unified? You can go a full day in the city and not hear anyone speaking english. Not saying that's a good or bad thing, but that certainly doesn't unify.

"I consider those basketball programs sleeping giants," Greenberg added. "They just need the right guy -- I hope Steve Lavin is the right guy to do it at St. John’s, we’ll see. They just need the right guy to come in there and turn that negative into a positive, and I think those could be powerhouse programs."

“@ESPNNewYork: Is #StJohns a sleeping giant? http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/colleges/post/_/id/5898/is-st-johns-a-sleeping-giant @KieranDarcy #SJU #redstorm #NCAA”

"sleeping giants" like what:  the loch ness monster??  we've been sleeping longer than rip van winkle.

the program is in a coma like snow white...and we're stuck hoping the handsome prince can wake her.

it's tiresome listening to hosts who don't follow college hoops re-warm the same old lines. 

sorry to be debbie downer...and not to rewarm the same old argument...but 13 of the remaining sweet 16 teams are BCS schools.  the best we can hope for down the road is second tier top 25...ekeing into the NCAA tournament more often than not...and if we're ever in the sweet 16, we'll be billed as a cinderella story.

it didn't have to be that way.  instead the college presidents are counting the instant cash while listening to radio talk show hosts verbally stroke their privates.

Next Season - Catholic 6 + Butler Creighton Xavier.

What is interesting is we were 5-5 against the old Big East and only 3-6 against the Catholic 7 and 2 0f the 3 were wins over De Paul. Gtwn 0-2 Villanova 0-2 Providence 0-1 and Marquette 0-1 and Seton Hall 1-0.

What is interesting is we were 5-5 against the old Big East and only 3-6 against the Catholic 7 and 2 0f the 3 were wins over De Paul. Gtwn 0-2 Villanova 0-2 Providence 0-1 and Marquette 0-1 and Seton Hall 1-0.

I wouldn't read too much into that. We could have easily beaten Marquette (lost by 1 at buzzer), and Villanova the first time (blew big lead lost in OT), and I would expect us to beat Providence at home, and on the road with a full team.

Quote from: 96 Schermerhorn Street on March 27, 2013, 04:20:28 PM

What is interesting is we were 5-5 against the old Big East and only 3-6 against the Catholic 7 and 2 0f the 3 were wins over De Paul. Gtwn 0-2 Villanova 0-2 Providence 0-1 and Marquette 0-1 and Seton Hall 1-0.

I wouldn't read too much into that. We could have easily beaten Marquette (lost by 1 at buzzer), and Villanova the first time (blew big lead lost in OT), and I would expect us to beat Providence at home, and on the road with a full team.

But we didn't and come next fall we'll all  see foolish predictions as if we had won those games.