Next Season

These are all very sad facts considerin what was STJ.


St. John's 83rd winning season in history and second of The Lavin Era is only its fifth since 1999-2000. The Red Storm's 2011 NCAA berth and 2013 NIT appearance under Lavin mark the first time since 2002 and 2003 during which St. John's reached the postseason twice in three-year span. The Red Storm's 63-61 March 19 NIT Opening Round win over Saint Joseph's was the first non-vacated postseason victory since the 2001 NCAA Tournament.

Band aid over bullet hole facts

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 24, 2013, 05:45:31 PM

These are all very sad facts considerin what was STJ.


St. John's 83rd winning season in history and second of The Lavin Era is only its fifth since 1999-2000. The Red Storm's 2011 NCAA berth and 2013 NIT appearance under Lavin mark the first time since 2002 and 2003 during which St. John's reached the postseason twice in three-year span. The Red Storm's 63-61 March 19 NIT Opening Round win over Saint Joseph's was the first non-vacated postseason victory since the 2001 NCAA Tournament.

Band aid over bullet hole facts

very adept metaphor, nephew.

 Just imagine if we didn't have that "inept, lunkhead" of a coach on the bench?  Hell, we might have been in the post season 3 out of 3 years....

( note: Lavin was not on the bench the one season that STJ didn't make the postseason)

 We are.....

I'll just say this.... to reach some y'all's lofty expectations of the 2013-2014, this team has a lot of work to do.

Not sayin it can't be done. Just sayin, it needs a LOT of work.

Just imagine if we didn't have that "inept, lunkhead" of a coach on the bench?  Hell, we might have been in the post season 3 out of 3 years....

( note: Lavin was not on the bench the one season that STJ didn't make the postseason)

 We are.....

I'm glad there are at least some sane posters left on here.

I'll just say this.... to reach some y'all's lofty expectations of the 2013-2014, this team has a lot of work to do.

Not sayin it can't be done. Just sayin, it needs a LOT of work.

Choz-

Do you feel that if the don't dance next year there are issues.  (Tough to say since we don't know about Harrison and/or Jordan and the rest of the team etc).  Just figured I'd ask your opinion.

How many of our better players won't be here for one reason or another?

I'll just say this.... to reach some y'all's lofty expectations of the 2013-2014, this team has a lot of work to do.

Not sayin it can't be done. Just sayin, it needs a LOT of work.

NCAA bid doesn't seem too lofty to me.   But maybe I'm blinded by my fandom
Expecting more than that though might be asking too much.

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 24, 2013, 05:55:00 PM

I'll just say this.... to reach some y'all's lofty expectations of the 2013-2014, this team has a lot of work to do.

Not sayin it can't be done. Just sayin, it needs a LOT of work.

Choz-

Do you feel that if the don't dance next year there are issues.  (Tough to say since we don't know about Harrison and/or Jordan and the rest of the team etc).  Just figured I'd ask your opinion.

Look, I know some y'all start mocking the "young team" thing as the season go along.

But hell.... its a damn young team.

Evrybdy shoulda know it was gonna be this way ever since Norm took on DH and JB2 way back when.

Anyways theres always hope that things click. Cause these are the players that will be representin STJ next year.

Quote from: Moose on March 24, 2013, 05:56:22 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 24, 2013, 05:55:00 PM

I'll just say this.... to reach some y'all's lofty expectations of the 2013-2014, this team has a lot of work to do.

Not sayin it can't be done. Just sayin, it needs a LOT of work.

Choz-

Do you feel that if the don't dance next year there are issues.  (Tough to say since we don't know about Harrison and/or Jordan and the rest of the team etc).  Just figured I'd ask your opinion.

Look, I know some y'all start mocking the "young team" thing as the season go along.

But hell.... its a damn young team.

Evrybdy shoulda know it was gonna be this way ever since Norm took on DH and JB2 way back when.

Anyways theres always hope that things click. Cause these are the players that will be representin STJ next year.

Only rebuttal to the young team was that there are a lot of other young teams out there doing pretty good.  Plus I thought we were told with all the minutes the group played last year it would accelerate their development.

No doubt you watch these other teams and there always seem to be 1 or 2 seniors on each team.  Sure helps if its a guard too.

“Extending our season with the opportunity to participate in the NIT was a valuable experience for our young team,” Lavin said. “This season served as an important building block in continuing our efforts to elevate the St. John’s basketball into a sustainable winner.”

My expectation is the elevation of program to "sustainable winner" status, consistent with what Lavin said. Hopefully that level's horizon is not three years out.


“@NYPost_Brazille: St. John's season ends in second round of NIT - http://NYPOST.com http://nyp.st/16RKlWQ via @nypost #stjbb”

i'll just cut and paste from the the other site...comments??

this is one of the most disappointing seasons i can remember. if we had a worse shooting team in school history, i'd like to find out which year. this was downright embarassing. yes, we made a post season tournament as we did when looie coached. the difference is these guys were highly touted. the coaches were highly touted. so what happened?

besides the consistant embarassment at the three point line and the foul line...our number two problem is no point guard. can you imagine a big east team with no point guard? there's a reason quarterbacks in football get paid the big bucks. someone has to run the show. maybe we get jordan...maybe...but is he really a savior? maybe harvard hooper is being taught to run the point. i'd guess he's smart enough. no one else is at this point. maybe branch or greeneIV will have epiphanies. it happened to david cain back in the day. right now, branch gets a C with an E for effort playing hurt. greene merits no more than a D. maybe he turns lavin's head in practice...but on the floor he's horrendous.

harrison gets a C-. i'm being generous here. sure, he was third leading scorer in the big east. he's the consummate chucker who occasionally finds the basket. he's a cancer in the locker room. he hasn't learned basketball is a game where you're supposed to have fun and not a war. his attitude takes most of the fun out of watching the games. i'd prefer lavin tell him to stay home and let him go out and find a high schooler who plays no D but scores 30 odd points a game on high percentage shooting.

garrett is also a C player based on his skill set and how that translated to what he brought to the floor.

pointer and obekpa are B's. both improved enough to warrant higher grades than the others. maybe obekpa could get extra credit for being second in the nation in blocked shots. as with the others...these guys must take a thousand shots a day to bring that portion of their games to respectability. the same with sampson. yes, he was the big east rookie of the year. someone is seeing something. i'm missing it. he's another bricklayer.

incompletes go to jones, balamou and bourgault. jones played himself out of a starting spot...but who expected him to start anyway? balamou didn't want to red shirt. he looked good at first, then he didn't. bourgault's failure is on the coach. you bring in a player who has a history of shooting 40 percent from three. you play him single digit minutes and pull him after one miss...thus screwing up his confidence. the only reason i can see for this is lavin wanted to keep up with his mantra that "we're the youngest team in the country". when someone pointed out bourgault is skewing that number...frenchie sat.

i'm generous giving the coaching staff a C. we have nba coaches...and not much improvement in player skills. maybe the players aren't smart enough to get it in one year. not everyone can be reached. we have a hall of famer in keady. we have lavin whose record at ucla is something we'd dream about here. i don't know what happened. the recruiting was fine when it came to getting top 100 players. we're not even talking to mcdonald aa's or top ten high schoolers. without them, we're condemned to remain at the usual high level of mediocrity we experienced during the looie years.

sanchez? he averaged maybe a dozen points and eight rebounds in junior college. the skill levels are much lower there. don't believe the hype that he can play in the nba today. he'll be a good player. he won't be a savior. god's gift. he might be the savior we're looking for.

at least real baseball is about a week away. there's always something for the sports fan.

Branch has been a major disappointment. Flashes aren't going to get it done. Maybe he's still hurt, but I have very little confidence that he can lead us where we want to go next year. He hasn't shot well and he's not looking to score. To me, he has a lot to prove.

i'll just cut and paste from the the other site...comments??

this is one of the most disappointing seasons i can remember. if we had a worse shooting team in school history, i'd like to find out which year. this was downright embarassing. yes, we made a post season tournament as we did when looie coached. the difference is these guys were highly touted. the coaches were highly touted. so what happened?

besides the consistant embarassment at the three point line and the foul line...our number two problem is no point guard. can you imagine a big east team with no point guard? there's a reason quarterbacks in football get paid the big bucks. someone has to run the show. maybe we get jordan...maybe...but is he really a savior? maybe harvard hooper is being taught to run the point. i'd guess he's smart enough. no one else is at this point. maybe branch or greeneIV will have epiphanies. it happened to david cain back in the day. right now, branch gets a C with an E for effort playing hurt. greene merits no more than a D. maybe he turns lavin's head in practice...but on the floor he's horrendous.

harrison gets a C-. i'm being generous here. sure, he was third leading scorer in the big east. he's the consummate chucker who occasionally finds the basket. he's a cancer in the locker room. he hasn't learned basketball is a game where you're supposed to have fun and not a war. his attitude takes most of the fun out of watching the games. i'd prefer lavin tell him to stay home and let him go out and find a high schooler who plays no D but scores 30 odd points a game on high percentage shooting.

garrett is also a C player based on his skill set and how that translated to what he brought to the floor.

pointer and obekpa are B's. both improved enough to warrant higher grades than the others. maybe obekpa could get extra credit for being second in the nation in blocked shots. as with the others...these guys must take a thousand shots a day to bring that portion of their games to respectability. the same with sampson. yes, he was the big east rookie of the year. someone is seeing something. i'm missing it. he's another bricklayer.

incompletes go to jones, balamou and bourgault. jones played himself out of a starting spot...but who expected him to start anyway? balamou didn't want to red shirt. he looked good at first, then he didn't. bourgault's failure is on the coach. you bring in a player who has a history of shooting 40 percent from three. you play him single digit minutes and pull him after one miss...thus screwing up his confidence. the only reason i can see for this is lavin wanted to keep up with his mantra that "we're the youngest team in the country". when someone pointed out bourgault is skewing that number...frenchie sat.

i'm generous giving the coaching staff a C. we have nba coaches...and not much improvement in player skills. maybe the players aren't smart enough to get it in one year. not everyone can be reached. we have a hall of famer in keady. we have lavin whose record at ucla is something we'd dream about here. i don't know what happened. the recruiting was fine when it came to getting top 100 players. we're not even talking to mcdonald aa's or top ten high schoolers. without them, we're condemned to remain at the usual high level of mediocrity we experienced during the looie years.

sanchez? he averaged maybe a dozen points and eight rebounds in junior college. the skill levels are much lower there. don't believe the hype that he can play in the nba today. he'll be a good player. he won't be a savior. god's gift. he might be the savior we're looking for.

at least real baseball is about a week away. there's always something for the sports fan.

Ok, I'll bite.

First off, if a season in which St. John's had a winning record is "one of the most disappointing you can remember" then you must've missed the past decade of STJ hoops. "Down right embarrassing"? Sure, we could've done better, but I think that's a bit over the top. We have highly rated recruits, but we were a young team, and young teams tend to make a lot of mistakes, we saw that.

I think Branch will end up being a fine PG for us next year. He was basically a Freshman this year.

I agree with you that the shooting needs to be addressed. I'm not giving up on Bourgault just yet, as I think he could improve. Hopefully Hooper can give us a 3pt threat. Having Harrison back would be huge. I also think Branch is a better jumpshooter than he showed this year, I'd like to see him shoot a little more.

How the hell you can give Amir a higher grade than D'Angelo is beyond me. And a C- for the 3rd BE scorer? You're lost.

Obekpa will get better. Probably a lot better next year. We all know he can block shots, but I think his offensive game will develop too.

Sanchez has been touted by some as being NBA quality.

To be honest, I think your post is probably the most glass half empty summary of this season that could possibly be written, congrats.

We got 17 wins with just Freshman and Sophomores, and now it seems like many of you think it's impossible for us to add 3-5 wins next year with a more experienced team. Not sure why you feel that way, but for me, if we get Harrison back, I'm going to be really, really excited for next season.

This team could easily have won 3 more games this year ( Nova OT, Rutgers missed shot at the end, Marquette OT).  There is no reason, if Harrison gets his head on straight, we add Gift and Sanchez, that this same squad can't win 20+ and get a bid.

Obviously anything can happen to derail a season but if everything runs normally, we should have a better year.  If we add Rysheed, I think we will be significantly better.

As I said in another thread somewhere, we should be ranked in the top 25 ---based on an intact roster returning.  We will have to produce on the court to remain there.

This team could easily have won 3 more games this year ( Nova OT, Rutgers missed shot at the end, Marquette OT).  There is no reason, if Harrison gets his head on straight, we add Gift and Sanchez, that this same squad can't win 20+ and get a bid.

Obviously anything can happen to derail a season but if everything runs normally, we should have a better year.  If we add Rysheed, I think we will be significantly better.

As I said in another thread somewhere, we should be ranked in the top 25 ---based on an intact roster returning.  We will have to produce on the court to remain there.

Asheville is the biggest most sure thing win they missed.  Followed by Rutgers at home.

Yeah, I just pulled 3 conference games off the top of my head but you're right Bout UNCA.

We played guys who don't belong in a BE rotation, but don't wanna be nasty and say. Marco and Amir must be spoken to by Lavs because they might have better options then they do here. A couple of the guys must know the difference between chippy and tough. They got to here from Steve if they can't hold a rebound, he can't use'em. No more mom and pop stuff. CO got ability but can't waste it. Pointer and Sampson have a lot more to give. Branch and Green both have spots on the team but can be better. Sanchez has the age on him to lead, as does Gift and I hope they play like men. CO got that nervous giggle and a little hook or drop step will better serve him. If Harrison wants to be part of a team, I think the coach will lay out the plan. It will be up to him if he wants to go along. Coach lucky he can find maybe three more guys got a chance to be part of something. Steve gonna wanna win. He play 7 guys if thats all thats serious to make the trip with him. He's gonna have to make up his mind who he must get rid of all together if they think playing for SJU a joke. If he stays, we will end up with a good team.  And it will stay good.My concern, he wants to be here.

[...] God's Gift.  He might be the savior we're looking for.

um... I'm sorry, what?   I keep trying to reread that to see if it says what I think it does, but my vision has become blurry and I think my head is about to explode.

Billy Madison - Everyone is now dumber
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.  At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.  I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

he's a cancer in the locker room. he hasn't learned basketball is a game where you're supposed to have fun and not a war

Generally I thought your post a fair assessment, although I'd grade Lavin a D+ and I don't see how you can give Harrison and Garrett the same grade unless Garrett was polishing your apple every day after school. This cancer bit though is a bit over the top. In the first place there's no evidence of what Harrison exactly did, unless you believe the rumors. I don't. I have my own ideas as to why DH was suspended and they have nothing to do with anybody rolling their eyes. Leaving that aside, SJ won 15 games with Harrison and about 3 without him. If he was the cancer the patient died after the tumor was removed.

Re fun I can think of a lot of athletes who thought sport was war and some of them were pretty good at it. Some were died in the wool psychopaths - Ty Cobb. Dick Butkus. Ron Artest - and some were merely incredibly focused, eg everyone's favorite un-tattooed player floor slapping dope Matt Brust. If I recall correctly you're the same guy who for many years complained that SJ would forever be small time because it was not treating its basketball program like the big business that it was. In this instance you seem to be advocating for something closer to tether ball: gosh darn it that D'Angelo Harrison just needs to remember to have more fun out there, then everything will be swell. Mayhaps it is that this is how he has fun and how he behaves on the court is how he expresses having had it, rather than grinning from ear to ear every time he commits a foul or does something boneheaded, as does Chris Obekpa. Who if I were going to suspend somebody for their facial expressions, he'd be the first to go.