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Does St Johns finish......?

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redstorm212

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2013, 12:54:18 PM »
When was the last time we entered a season expecting to reach the sweet 16? Times are good.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 12:54:35 PM by redstorm212 »
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CC

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2013, 02:30:25 PM »
Quote from: redstorm212 on May 09, 2013, 12:54:18 PM
When was the last time we entered a season expecting to reach the sweet 16? Times are good.

The team will not be anywhere near the Sweet 16 unless they find someone who can consistently hit the 3 ball. Be a model citizen Harrison
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newsman13

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2013, 03:25:47 PM »
Quote from: RedZone Redmen on May 09, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
The curse of being in queens? Mets and St John's?
mets are the only baseball expansion team to get to four world series.  yes, they suck but sometimes the glass is half full.
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fordham96

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2013, 04:52:29 PM »
Quote from: CC on May 09, 2013, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: redstorm212 on May 09, 2013, 12:54:18 PM
When was the last time we entered a season expecting to reach the sweet 16? Times are good.

The team will not be anywhere near the Sweet 16 unless they find someone who can consistently hit the 3 ball. Be a model citizen Harrison

Being more proficient on offense is definitely needed.  A year older plus and infusion of some serious talent (Sanchez and Jordan) should bolster that in a BIG way.

But look at Marquette.  They shot 29.7% from 3 last year.  4 times they failed to break 50 points including the Final 8 game against Syracuse where they failed to break FORTY points.

They still went won 26 overall games, won a share of the BE regular season crown with a 14-4 record and went to the Elite 8.

Explain that. 

They defend and they know how to execute in critical spots in tight games.  Talented, certainly, but there are more talented teams then Marquette that did less.  More importantly their success is a sign of a cohesive and usually experienced team.

To me SJU is more talented they just need the cohesion and defensive work ethic that a Marquette has and they will put it all together.
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desco80

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2013, 08:00:20 PM »
Quote from: fordham96 on May 09, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: CC on May 09, 2013, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: redstorm212 on May 09, 2013, 12:54:18 PM
When was the last time we entered a season expecting to reach the sweet 16? Times are good.

The team will not be anywhere near the Sweet 16 unless they find someone who can consistently hit the 3 ball. Be a model citizen Harrison

Being more proficient on offense is definitely needed.  A year older plus and infusion of some serious talent (Sanchez and Jordan) should bolster that in a BIG way.

But look at Marquette.  They shot 29.7% from 3 last year.  4 times they failed to break 50 points including the Final 8 game against Syracuse where they failed to break FORTY points.

They still went won 26 overall games, won a share of the BE regular season crown with a 14-4 record and went to the Elite 8.

Explain that. 

It's pretty simple actually, but unfortunately it's not really a formula we can follow:
Marquette could afford to be a poor 3pt team because they were an excellent foul shooting team (2nd in the BE 73%), shot very well from the field (2nd in fg%) and were a very good rebounding team  (3rd in rebounding margin).

We were last or next to last in all those areas, so even with reinforcements we're likely to be average to pretty good next year at those skills.  Being a great foul shooting team, for example, just isn't in the cards for us. 

Can we make it up in other areas?  Maybe.  Probably on the defensive end a little, and we're also very good at not turning the ball over.   But you can't point to Marquette and say "see, you don't have to be a good outside shooting team to be successful".   Because they were very very good at other things which are not going to be enormous strengths for us. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 08:02:00 PM by desco80 »
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Amaseinyourface2

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2013, 08:30:11 PM »
Quote from: desco80 on May 09, 2013, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: fordham96 on May 09, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: CC on May 09, 2013, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: redstorm212 on May 09, 2013, 12:54:18 PM
When was the last time we entered a season expecting to reach the sweet 16? Times are good.

The team will not be anywhere near the Sweet 16 unless they find someone who can consistently hit the 3 ball. Be a model citizen Harrison

Being more proficient on offense is definitely needed.  A year older plus and infusion of some serious talent (Sanchez and Jordan) should bolster that in a BIG way.

But look at Marquette.  They shot 29.7% from 3 last year.  4 times they failed to break 50 points including the Final 8 game against Syracuse where they failed to break FORTY points.

They still went won 26 overall games, won a share of the BE regular season crown with a 14-4 record and went to the Elite 8.

Explain that. 

It's pretty simple actually, but unfortunately it's not really a formula we can follow:
Marquette could afford to be a poor 3pt team because they were an excellent foul shooting team (2nd in the BE 73%), shot very well from the field (2nd in fg%) and were a very good rebounding team  (3rd in rebounding margin).

We were last or next to last in all those areas, so even with reinforcements we're likely to be average to pretty good next year at those skills.  Being a great foul shooting team, for example, just isn't in the cards for us. 

Can we make it up in other areas?  Maybe.  Probably on the defensive end a little, and we're also very good at not turning the ball over.   But you can't point to Marquette and say "see, you don't have to be a good outside shooting team to be successful".   Because they were very very good at other things which are not going to be enormous strengths for us. 

Good points all around. One plus that's not mentioned a lot is that rysheed is a real good free throw shooter. Having the ball in his and dlo's hands a lot will help our ft percentage. 
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fordham96

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2013, 08:30:19 PM »
Some good stuff with Jon Rothstein and Coach:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonrothstein
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LJSA

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2013, 08:49:40 PM »
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simplyred

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2013, 08:54:48 PM »
I assume you're asking about Tim Spagnola.  Twitter profile says he blogs about Uconn.  I guess he thinks that makes him a journalist.  Just makes him classless.
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Poison

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2013, 09:04:29 PM »
Quote from: simplyred on May 09, 2013, 08:54:48 PM
I assume you're asking about Tim Spagnola.  Twitter profile says he blogs about Uconn.  I guess he thinks that makes him a journalist.  Just makes him classless.

A classless Uconn fan? Behold.
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RedStormyNight

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2013, 09:51:46 PM »
Quote from: Moose on May 08, 2013, 04:40:38 PM
Quote from: thetruth8734 on May 08, 2013, 04:29:49 PM
I think it will be pretty close to be honest. Gtown, Marquette, Butler, Nova, and Creighton have been mentioned as potential top 25 teams on some sites next year. I could see us being ranked preseason possibly as 6th behind those 5 teams. I still think we could make a nice run in the tourney though. This should be a really deep league this year, but it's anyone's to win right now. My opinion on what the preseason rankings could look like:

1. Georgetown
2. Creighton
3. Marquette
4. Butler
5. Nova
6. STJ
7. PC
8. Xavier
9. Seton Hall
10. Depaul

Butler?  They are not that good next year.

I would expect a top 4 finish. If we are any worse than top 5 in a 10 team league it will be a huge disappointment. Theoretically on paper we have the horses to be #1 but we all know the hype rarely pans out for us so I'll stick with top 4 as my expectation.

1. G'Town
2. Nova
3. Marquette
4. St. John's
5. Butler
6. Xavier
7. Creighton
8. PC
9. Seton Hall
10. DePaul

I would expect Creighton to go through a transition period getting used to playing all studs, not Bradley ish schools most of the year. Instead of playing no ranked teams like last year, they will be playing a tourney worthy team almost every conference game (8/10 minus SH and DePaul).

-Seton Hall with no Carr is a disaster.
-DePaul is just DePaul...they belong in the watered down A-10
-I had PC kind of low but they are my pick for most likely to be much better if I'm wrong
-Look for Butler to struggle more than expected...they really ran out of gas at the end in the A-10 and this league is much harder
-Xavier is kind of a wildcard
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RedStormyNight

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2013, 09:56:54 PM »
Quote from: LJSA on May 09, 2013, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: fordham96 on May 09, 2013, 08:30:19 PM
Some good stuff with Jon Rothstein and Coach:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonrothstein

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/332647956463366144?p=v

Do we know this guy?

What an AH. He's just mad that UConn is stuck in a mid major conference. Enjoy UConn! Shouldn't have sold out for football.
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crgreen

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2013, 10:09:34 PM »
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RedStormyNight

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2013, 10:13:34 PM »
Quote from: Tha Kid on May 09, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
First in the BE. 9th in the country.  Will end up a 3 seed.  Stars are aligned.

Butler and Creighton will both finish top 5 though.  They may have played in the A10/MVC but they were the class of their conferences with great coaches to boot.  It's not like we are talking the MAAC here.

Did you just say SJ will be ranked #9 in the country? There is positivity and then there is setting yourself up for certain disappointment. Hell, I hope you're right but to go from NIT to top 10 team nationally would mean Jordan turns into an unstoppable force, Sampson improves, Branch improves drastically, Hooper is auto from 3, Harrison gets his act together and is lights out, Obekpa turns in at least the same season as this past year, and Sanchez is everything we expected and more. Not sure ALL of that will happen...it would be like hitting the lotto. If we even make the Sweet 16 I will be partying.
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Moose

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2013, 10:35:31 PM »
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Amaseinyourface2

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2013, 10:39:19 PM »
Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 09, 2013, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: Tha Kid on May 09, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
First in the BE. 9th in the country.  Will end up a 3 seed.  Stars are aligned.

Butler and Creighton will both finish top 5 though.  They may have played in the A10/MVC but they were the class of their conferences with great coaches to boot.  It's not like we are talking the MAAC here.

Did you just say SJ will be ranked #9 in the country? There is positivity and then there is setting yourself up for certain disappointment. Hell, I hope you're right but to go from NIT to top 10 team nationally would mean Jordan turns into an unstoppable force, Sampson improves, Branch improves drastically, Hooper is auto from 3, Harrison gets his act together and is lights out, Obekpa turns in at least the same season as this past year, and Sanchez is everything we expected and more. Not sure ALL of that will happen...it would be like hitting the lotto. If we even make the Sweet 16 I will be partying.

If what you just described were to actually happen than we wouldn't be the 9th best team in the country. We would be top 5.

I think Kid is being very optimistic but honestly if things go right I could see us cracking the top ten. We did reach 15th with hardy and the gang.
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simplyred

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2013, 10:43:28 PM »
Tha Kid has watched a lot of Duke games.  He knows what a top 10 team looks like.
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bk8664

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2013, 10:51:33 PM »
Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 09, 2013, 10:39:19 PM
Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 09, 2013, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: Tha Kid on May 09, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
First in the BE. 9th in the country.  Will end up a 3 seed.  Stars are aligned.

Butler and Creighton will both finish top 5 though.  They may have played in the A10/MVC but they were the class of their conferences with great coaches to boot.  It's not like we are talking the MAAC here.

Did you just say SJ will be ranked #9 in the country? There is positivity and then there is setting yourself up for certain disappointment. Hell, I hope you're right but to go from NIT to top 10 team nationally would mean Jordan turns into an unstoppable force, Sampson improves, Branch improves drastically, Hooper is auto from 3, Harrison gets his act together and is lights out, Obekpa turns in at least the same season as this past year, and Sanchez is everything we expected and more. Not sure ALL of that will happen...it would be like hitting the lotto. If we even make the Sweet 16 I will be partying.

If what you just described were to actually happen than we wouldn't be the 9th best team in the country. We would be top 5.

I think Kid is being very optimistic but honestly if things go right I could see us cracking the top ten. We did reach 15th with hardy and the gang.

The other thing to remember is that hardly any teams are perfectly put together at the college level... most three point shooting teams lack size or athleticism and vice versa... or they have good back court play and lousy post play etc.   The teams that can do everything - they are few and far between.      Even teams like Duke have flaws in their team construction.

We should be better and much more well rounded team next year, and with experience to boot:   We'll have great or good point guard play for the whole game - in a guard driven college game.  Defense across the board should be good.  I think - as a surprise to some on this board - that rebounding will be just fine next year.   Turnover ratio should be good.   Shotblocking will be ridiculous.  Mid-range game should be excellent.   Transition game - when in play - should be fearsome.  Free throw shooting should be average (I hope).  Our athleticism will be off the charts. The unknown issues for us are going be can our three point shooting improve, and can we have any consistent post presence at all?

To me, that's a lot of positives that outweigh only a couple of unknowns.   That in and of itself should put us in the top 15 to 20 by season's-end.

It is going to be a fun season to watch.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 10:55:09 PM by bk8664 »
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JohnnyJungle

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #58 on: May 09, 2013, 10:55:24 PM »
Don't sleep on Creighton especially if Grant Gibbs gets 1 more year of eligibility.
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RedStormyNight

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Re: Does St Johns finish......?
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2013, 12:54:18 AM »
Quote from: Dave on May 09, 2013, 10:55:24 PM
Don't sleep on Creighton especially if Grant Gibbs gets 1 more year of eligibility.

I wouldn't sleep on them, but you have to figure they will meet a lot more resistance than ever before. This is not a league with 2 other good teams and the rest cupcakes...this is a conference stacked 1-8 and even Seton Hall and DePaul will give you more than you want many times. They have never been in a conference where almost every conference game is a NCAA tourney opponent. I expect they will still knock off some big boys but I just don't see them making a seamless transition like nothing changed.
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