Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear

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Since the board has nuthin to talk about 'cept its obsession wit Hooper and Phil, I offer y'all the following:

Goin back thru the histry, they was some key moments and decisions that coulda change STJ's fortune in ways most dramatic.

Hindsight is hindsight, but aint none of these is far fetch.

So what if.....

1965: Joe Lapchick wasn't forced to retire and could recruit Lew Alcindor?
"If Joe Lapchick was still the coach when I left high school, it would have been a much tougher decision for me," - Kareem
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/kareem-abdul-jabbar-star-ucla-los-angeles-lakers-considered-st-john-article-1.441973


1970: Al McGuire was hired to replace Lou C when he left for the Nets?


1980: Akeem Olajuwon's recruiting trip was scheduled in the summer?
In the fall of 1980, a 17-year-old Olajuwon arrived in America for the first time to visit St. John’s University. He found New York unbearably cold, and he left for Houston after only a few hours.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/77626/dream-land

1986: Walter Berry came back for his senior year.
Two weeks ago, Berry said that he intended to return to St. John's for his senior season because he wasn't assured of being the first overall draft pick. Had Berry stayed at St. John's, he most likely would have been the top draft pick in 1987.
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-05-06/sports/sp-4208_1_walter-berry

1987: Lou C did not shun STJ-fan Gary Payton.
St. John's coach, Lou Carnesecca, reneged on a scholarship offer at the 11th hour. "When I make a mistake, it's a real whopper," says Carnesecca now.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1137078/2/index.htm

1992: Rick Majerus was hired to replace Lou C.
Parking only for NYCHA permit holders.

jr49

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 01:54:44 PM »
For me having Brian take over for Lou was the knife. If Lou was done, being an ambassador was as much job as he needed. He left with the brass thinking there is no need in paying a coach. We were big time and they turned us into mom and pop stuff. If we had a strong AD who had it in mind to treat us as big time things would have been different. 

Poison

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 02:05:15 PM »
1992 - hiring Mahoney
1998 - firing Fran
1999 - hiring Jarvis
2004 - firing Jarvis
2004 - hiring Roberts
2005 - not firing Roberts
2006 - not firing Roberts
2007 - not firing Roberts
2008 - not firing Roberts
2009 - not firing Roberts

ras

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 02:25:52 PM »
Calipari maybe a bit of a snake and Lou didn't want him. But, what if we hired him to replace Lou?

Poison

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 02:57:44 PM »
Calipari maybe a bit of a snake and Lou didn't want him. But, what if we hired him to replace Lou?

If we hired Calipari, we could have wound up on probation. Oh wait.

Foad

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 02:59:09 PM »
Calipari maybe a bit of a snake and Lou didn't want him. But, what if we hired him to replace Lou?

We'd have a lovely VACATED banner hanging in the rafters of Alumni Hall.

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 03:02:54 PM »
GREAT thread.

first mistake pre-dated all the above... making it impossible for frank mcguire to stay after his final four season.  he went to north carolina and began the pipeline that sent nyc greats out of town.

part ownership of the nit left a soft landing spot for the mediocrity that followed.  there's really no incentive to play with the big boys when you can make money here in town with little effort.

i believe ucla super booster $am gilbert had more to do with alcindor going west than joe lapchick's forced retirement.  jabbar is in denial, but other players on his team admitted getting paid.  why not the best player?

al mcguire was too much of a loose cannon to be hired by st john's. maybe more accurate, he marched to a different drummer.  st john's was always a good ole boys job. loyalist and former outstanding player frank mulzoff was brought in to warm looie's seat in the event he tanked as nets coach.  he tanked and mulzoff was unceremoniously jettisoned. 

i heard olajuwan was accidently left at the airport, so he hopped on the plane to houston.  that makes more sense since it really isn't cold in the fall.

i would have LOVED to have had berry back for a senior season. the problem was looie only managed to recruit marco baldi after our final four season.  that would have left berry playing center while not developing the skill sets he'd need for the nba.  what was the wooden award winner's incentive to stay?  he was already the best player in the country.

walter payton was a huge mistake.  him with jayson williams, malik sealy and rob werdann would have been top five. 

i don't think majerus wanted to come here.  in any event, we would have avoided the horrendous years that followed, but it would have been a clone of the looie years.

calipari??  see al mcguire. 

the fact is, st john's has always had mediocrity in its dna.  there's a reason we're the flea running up an elephant's leg with carnal thoughts.  it's the dna.

desco80

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 03:03:58 PM »
For me having Brian take over for Lou was the knife. If Lou was done, being an ambassador was as much job as he needed. He left with the brass thinking there is no need in paying a coach. We were big time and they turned us into mom and pop stuff. If we had a strong AD who had it in mind to treat us as big time things would have been different.

Absolutely agree.   We had a chance to take a huge step forward in the early 90s after Lou retired.   We had relative momentum, and Jayson and Malik were doing well in the league (along with Chris, mark, Wennington etc)

And I agree with Newsier as well, Majerus would have run things very similar to Lou.  But I would've signed up for those results after seeing what Mahoney and then Fran/Jarvis gave us, aside from the elite 8 season there was nothing. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 03:07:07 PM by desco80 »

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 04:05:20 PM »
Re Hakkem's visit:

http://coachgeorgeraveling.com/dont-wake-me-im-dreaming/

"A number of college visits were arranged and Hakeem’s first stop was actually in New York City to visit St. John’s University in Queens. (Am I the only one thinking that this Coming to America story could’ve given Eddie Murphy’s movie a run for its money?) He took a flight from Lagos to JFK Airport in October of 1980 armed with an itinerary that also included visits to Providence College, the University of Georgia, the University of North Carolina and Houston.

But the frigid, wintery conditions, coupled with the fact that no one from St John’s bothered to show up and meet him at the airport, killed what could have been a dream scenario for any New York City hoops addict."
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 05:13:55 PM by simplyred »

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 06:30:50 PM »
it must have been an UNUSUALLY COLD october.

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 06:36:10 PM »
It doesn't have to be that cold if you're coming from Nigeria.

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 07:12:05 PM »
i'd think the october weather in new york would be refreshing compared to the heat, rain and humidity you'd find in lagos.  my guess is the no show at the airport with no one pitching new york, msg and the big east screwed us. 

boo3

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 07:49:47 PM »
Imagine Ewing and Olajuwon going head to head in the big east for 3 years?  Wow..

 The Gary Payton thing is pure stupidity on Louie's part..  dumb, dumb, dumb..

 '86-'87 team with Jackson and Berry and Shelton would have been fun to watch..

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2013, 08:06:35 PM »
Choz4Life, great post - those links are incredible!

Poison

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 08:42:44 AM »
1991, the hiring of the Dark Lord, Father Harrington.

TONYD3

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2013, 08:45:18 AM »
I remember praying that jarvis wouldnt go to the Wizards. Clearly that worked out.

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2013, 09:14:09 AM »
The thing about Mahoney is he did overachieve his first year with a bad roster, then had the best recruiting class we ever had.It turned out he was an overmatched coach, but you can really only say they kept him one year too long. Unlike the Norm debacle....

Gumby

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2013, 09:22:54 AM »
As I have posted on other topics, according to Coach C., his two worst recruiting decisions were not bringing in Gary Payton and that kid from L.I., who became Dr. J.

Foad

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Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2013, 09:42:08 AM »
it must have been an UNUSUALLY COLD october.

Turns out it was.

Record lows in NYC 1980: October 13, 14, 26, 30 and 31.

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/History.aspx?month=10

We forget now because of all the nonsense about global warming but back then the big fear was the coming of a new Ice Age.

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/the-1970s-ice-age-scare/

Re: Pivotal decisions over half a century that kept STJ in 2nd gear
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2013, 10:50:53 AM »
All that high-flying, out of control dunking by that Julius kid would never translate to Looie's system.  Smart move not recruiting him.