Xavier Game Thread

I dont hate Lavin, im glad he is the head of our program but he needs to give up this every game is a new canvas shit and stick to a solid rotation

Lavin is both an awful coach and the best thing that's happened to SJ basketball since Louie retired. That's the sad reality.

Like a blind squirrel Fran finds a nut and he didn't even have to drop his pants. Just give Jordan the damned ball already.

You can bash Lavin for alot, but not the starting lineup.  They opened up a 9-0 lead. 

Not true.  Subs were brought in at 5-0.  The starting lineup in the second half was a -9 when all were on the floor though, which means they were a -4 in total for the game.

I fear lavin simply is not a good game coach and dunlap deserves even more credit for that ncaa season...is he still available?

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 11:15:34 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on December 31, 2013, 10:20:06 PM

carmine I don't see how the starting lineup today can be justified by ANYONE.

And I don't see how the starting lineup can not be justified by EVERYONE.  It was an undeniable, unmitigated success.

Actually I lied.  I do see how the starting line up can not be justified by EVERYONE as I've been an student of psychology and gynecology my entire adult life.  It is just human nature to place blame and seek scapegoats when bad events occur and I recognize and understand that.  If we would have won the starting lineup change would be just a passing, humorous blip on the board amidst the celebration, congratulations and positive posts.  It's nothing we haven't seen from Hollywood before.  Since we lost,  you get the other direction.  I get it.

Haha you must not be dealing with the facts then.  We were a -4 all-in-all with this lineup today (+5 in the first half and -9 in the second half).  Not much of a success there based on any sort of factual reasoning. 

My original point was simply that the starting lineup was a success in this game and I presented evidence to back it up.  Now you are responding with game long plus/minus totals and second half numbers.  I think you and Moose might be reading more into it than I intended.

Others are making ridiculous woulda/coulda/shoulda statements like we would have had a blank??? point lead if we only had started Jordan and CO.  Pure conjecture and speculation.  We also might have fallen behind by blank??? points.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

You watched it didnt you. Xavier missed open shots, we werent exactly shutting them down because of our defense. We had a perfect opportunity to turn a nice 9 point lead into a 15+ pt advantage but lavin waited 5+ minutes to put his point guard into the game. Did we have one easy basket yesterday? In the half court, seriously I cant remember an easy basket.

You coached didnt you? Isnt a huge part of basketball chemistry? Id argue it might be the biggest factor, kids need to get into a rhythm playing with each other. Lineups shouldnt be thrown together each and every day like its paint on a wall, they should be developed. There was absolutely no reason to start that lineup. None.

I am a big Lavin supporter (stil cringe thinking of 6 years under Norm) but a significant part of this debacle is on him.  8 man rotation and no more. The only time Gift should see the floor is if we need 5 fouls.  Hooper, Felix, Marco et al should be used rarely, if ever. Bringing Felix back from redshirt still confuses me unless Coach thinks the issue with Rysheed's mom will continue to be a challenge throughout the year.

Had a chance to put X away in the first 7 minutes and we didn't.  Then lost the game in the first 3 minutes of the 2nd half.  Team looked confused and dazed.  Basically watched themselves get taken apart by a superior schooled and disciplined team.

Extremely disappointed with reasonable but high expectations.  Season ticket holder since '88 - I haven't lost the faith but right now we need a win on Saturday against a disciplined Gtown team on the road.

That pretty much contradicts your cause and effect reasoning but very well. Thanks

Not surprising.  Rachel Ray once told me that my logic is akin to a contradiction tossed with a conundrum wrapped in an enigma.

Going into the game boarding figured to be a big factor. X-men were cold to start the game, but had we gave them extra chances they would have shot their way to a lead pronto. We had the board edge by 2 in the first half, just what we lead by. Second half they won the glass by 9. Among other things, thats the game. No boards, no run outs. We can find fault with plenty, but it don't have to be complicated. We can win road games or beat a good team only if we play a hard 40 minutes. That hides a multitude of things we don't do well. No doubt at the half Mack told his guys they were dead if they did not get after it off the boards. I have no doubt our staff told the guys win the boards, we win the game. Our guys don't play the whole 40. Coming out for the 2ed half we should not only have guarded tight, but deny guys the ball. You break guys and make them miserable with good D.  Thats playing hard, and it's something we are capable of doing. This team wins with defense.  I was very wordy telling you guys something you all know.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 09:04:00 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

You watched it didnt you. Xavier missed open shots, we werent exactly shutting them down because of our defense. We had a perfect opportunity to turn a nice 9 point lead into a 15+ pt advantage but lavin waited 5+ minutes to put his point guard into the game. Did we have one easy basket yesterday? In the half court, seriously I cant remember an easy basket.

You coached didnt you? Isnt a huge part of basketball chemistry? Id argue it might be the biggest factor, kids need to get into a rhythm playing with each other. Lineups shouldnt be thrown together each and every day like its paint on a wall, they should be developed. There was absolutely no reason to start that lineup. None.

Agree...Stainbrook is an OK player...not a reason to insert GG in lineup...

Interesting comments by Philmore...insinuates that Johnnies not as disciplined as Xavier...D'Lo agreed and says teams see it

not wrong

Going into the game boarding figured to be a big factor. X-men were cold to start the game, but had we gave them extra chances they would have shot their way to a lead pronto. We had the board edge by 2 in the first half, just what we lead by. Second half they won the glass by 9. Among other things, thats the game. No boards, no run outs. We can find fault with plenty, but it don't have to be complicated. We can win road games or beat a good team only if we play a hard 40 minutes. That hides a multitude of things we don't do well. No doubt at the half Mack told his guys they were dead if they did not get after it off the boards. I have no doubt our staff told the guys win the boards, we win the game. Our guys don't play the whole 40. Coming out for the 2ed half we should not only have guarded tight, but deny guys the ball. You break guys and make them miserable with good D.  Thats playing hard, and it's something we are capable of doing. This team wins with defense.  I was very wordy telling you guys something you all know.

Unfortunately we had our best PG and #1/2 defender on the bench when the game turned...

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I dont hate Lavin, im glad he is the head of our program but he needs to give up this every game is a new canvas shit and stick to a solid rotation

Lavin is both an awful coach and the best thing that's happened to SJ basketball since Louie retired. That's the sad reality.

.

That is 100% spot on!
I am at the point where I am not even going to comment on the random sub patterns and ever shifting rotation. Lavin does this for reasons only he knows or even he might not? I am just going to hope we win despite this. Bottom line is if the players we have play well we will win around 20 and have a shot at tourney. Concentrating on the odd lineups and substitutions Lavin comes up is senseless. Coach has the good sense to play Harrison no matter what. Once he figures that out about Jordan as well than I think no matter what else he does we will be fine.

One side thought. Is it possible that coach does not want to fully commit to Jordan because there is truth to all the rumors and he is not sure how long he will have him? Just a thought.

It's rough having four really good guards on the team when Harrison and Jordan probably should be playing 30 minutes a game when not in foul trouble. Branch should be #3 and Phil #4. Phil is a better scorer but he is maddening and not a true point guard. Everytime he takes a long two (foot on the three point line) a angel loses its wings.

Phil is a better scorer but he is maddening and not a true point guard. Everytime he takes a long two (foot on the three point line) a angel loses its wings.

Go ahead and knock his shot selection.  He's shooting 48% from the field and 40% from three???

Quote from: Foad on January 01, 2014, 10:05:10 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I dont hate Lavin, im glad he is the head of our program but he needs to give up this every game is a new canvas shit and stick to a solid rotation

Lavin is both an awful coach and the best thing that's happened to SJ basketball since Louie retired. That's the sad reality.

.

That is 100% spot on!
I am at the point where I am not even going to comment on the random sub patterns and ever shifting rotation. Lavin does this for reasons only he knows or even he might not? I am just going to hope we win despite this. Bottom line is if the players we have play well we will win around 20 and have a shot at tourney. Concentrating on the odd lineups and substitutions Lavin comes up is senseless. Coach has the good sense to play Harrison no matter what. Once he figures that out about Jordan as well than I think no matter what else he does we will be fine.

One side thought. Is it possible that coach does not want to fully commit to Jordan because there is truth to all the rumors and he is not sure how long he will have him? Just a thought.

I have no idea about the rumors, but while he is there Lavin should be utilizing him as much as possible.  Once again, he was the best player on the floor for St. John's yesterday.

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on January 01, 2014, 02:13:41 PM

Phil is a better scorer but he is maddening and not a true point guard. Everytime he takes a long two (foot on the three point line) a angel loses its wings.

Go ahead and knock his shot selection.  He's shooting 48% from the field and 40% from three???

That doesn't change the fact that the long two is the worst shot in basketball.

Has Whitesell made any impact whatsoever?

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on January 01, 2014, 02:13:41 PM

Phil is a better scorer but he is maddening and not a true point guard. Everytime he takes a long two (foot on the three point line) a angel loses its wings.

Go ahead and knock his shot selection.  He's shooting 48% from the field and 40% from three???

OK, so he can back D'Angelo up at the 2 and if we choose to go small he can play the 3. 

Phil Greene has played 323 minutes this season and has 19 assists.  Rysheed has only played 219 minutes but has 29 assists. 

Quote from: TRabinowitz on December 31, 2013, 11:39:13 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 11:15:34 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on December 31, 2013, 10:20:06 PM

carmine I don't see how the starting lineup today can be justified by ANYONE.

And I don't see how the starting lineup can not be justified by EVERYONE.  It was an undeniable, unmitigated success.

Actually I lied.  I do see how the starting line up can not be justified by EVERYONE as I've been an student of psychology and gynecology my entire adult life.  It is just human nature to place blame and seek scapegoats when bad events occur and I recognize and understand that.  If we would have won the starting lineup change would be just a passing, humorous blip on the board amidst the celebration, congratulations and positive posts.  It's nothing we haven't seen from Hollywood before.  Since we lost,  you get the other direction.  I get it.

Haha you must not be dealing with the facts then.  We were a -4 all-in-all with this lineup today (+5 in the first half and -9 in the second half).  Not much of a success there based on any sort of factual reasoning. 

My original point was simply that the starting lineup was a success in this game and I presented evidence to back it up.  Now you are responding with game long plus/minus totals and second half numbers.  I think you and Moose might be reading more into it than I intended.

Others are making ridiculous woulda/coulda/shoulda statements like we would have had a blank??? point lead if we only had started Jordan and CO.  Pure conjecture and speculation.  We also might have fallen behind by blank??? points.

I don't believe its a ridiculous statement to suggest we may have had a larger lead if Jordan started in place of Greene. Our offense is stagnant, we have no one that can create a shot for themselves or others, except for Jordan. Here is a stat for you 3. That is the combined amount of free throw attempts our starters had for the entire game, Jordan had 8. My issue isn't starting Gift over Obekpa, I just don't believe under any circumstance Greene should be starting over Jordan or Branch. We need play makers. Jordan gets to the line and could get their players in foul trouble. Your right though that its pure speculation we may have scored more, and nothing should have suggested going with a different starting five to begin the second half based on how they preformed to begin the game. It will be very interesting to see the starting five on Saturday.