What is the solution?

Branch is absolutely terrible.  He looked good for a 5 minute stretch against DePaul because DePaul St Johns games are out of control like Branch likes to play.  Against disciplined teams Branch is useless and should get no more than 5 minutes of spot play.  I liked Greene the first 2 years as Lavin compared him to Rondo (LOL) but he has completely fallen off and does very little to make the team better.

I completely disagree.   He gets easy baskets for people, and is the most unselfish player on the team.
The announcer last night was right, every guy on this team gets the ball and tries to make a one on one move and then gives it up if nothings there.   No continual ball movement.  It's station to station.

Branch is the exception to that rule. 

Quote from: Dave on January 17, 2014, 01:17:32 PM

Quote from: Needs2go on January 17, 2014, 01:10:09 PM

Branch is absolutely terrible.  He looked good for a 5 minute stretch against DePaul because DePaul St Johns games are out of control like Branch likes to play.  Against disciplined teams Branch is useless and should get no more than 5 minutes of spot play.  I liked Greene the first 2 years as Lavin compared him to Rondo (LOL) but he has completely fallen off and does very little to make the team better.

Can you be more specific?

You pinpointed where he was excellent then proceeded to ride the bench where the team lost.

There is no doubt Branch has some flaws as do all players but I think he has the best court vision on the team, actually looks to penetrate and create, keeps defenses on their heels. He has a couple of bad turnovers which I could live without but again he is at least looking for his teammates.

While Phil Greene may not turnover the ball as much he takes some awful shots that count as turnovers in my stat sheet. Fran Fraschilla likes to call bad shots, "silent turnovers." This team has a lot of those.

When Phil shoots any shot I think it is a bad shot

Phil can makes these two shots very well.

1. Floater
2. Going to the left, step back.

Other than that face facts, he isn't a good shooter.

Quote from: desco80 on January 17, 2014, 01:11:34 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 17, 2014, 01:05:12 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on January 17, 2014, 12:50:42 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 17, 2014, 12:40:55 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on January 17, 2014, 12:31:14 PM

1) Make Dom take 500 jump shots after every practice.  He improved his jumper as a sophomore but is worse than his freshman year currently. 

2a) Jordan needs to play 25-30 minutes a game.
2b) One of Branch / Jordan on the floor running the point at all times

3) Free Obekpa and build your defense around him.  I think man to man is the way to go and have him guard the teams worst shooting big. 

I don't think Dom has regressed. I just think he's lost in terms of where he has to be on the floor. There was one play last night where Dom caught it on the wing, drove to the basket, euro stepped, easy layup. He looked like a knife in butter.

I can honestly say that Dom can do that more often than not yet he just simply doesn't get the ball in those situations. He looks lost.

Not to beat a dead horse, but wouldn't a more rigid offensive scheme being quarterbacked by a true PG at all times go a long way?

I think Branch and Sheed should split time at PG. I think the offense flows so much better with Branch at the helm. I don't think there should ever be a time with the exception of playing with a large lead late in game where Greene is at the point.

I don't know how the staff doesn't see this Dave.    Lavin has tried every conceivable rotation combination possible, EXCEPT playing Branch more.   Him or Rysheed should always be in the game.  And last night the two of them played about 20mins combined, in a 2OT game!   

Well I would say that it was to please Jordan yet his minutes aren't exactly shooting through the roof either. It is just odd because Phil Greene was recruited here to be a combo off the bench. He knew that coming in and was thrusted into more PT sooner than expected.

And conversely, I presume Branch was recruited to be a starter.   Like you said, he's not without flaws.  The turnovers can be frustrating.
But he creates easy baskets for his teammates sometimes.  No one else has that court vision.
And it's not as if we have a multitude of point guards on this team.  We have 2 and 1/2.   There should be more PT for him available.

Quote from: Needs2go on January 17, 2014, 01:10:09 PM

Branch is absolutely terrible.  He looked good for a 5 minute stretch against DePaul because DePaul St Johns games are out of control like Branch likes to play.  Against disciplined teams Branch is useless and should get no more than 5 minutes of spot play.  I liked Greene the first 2 years as Lavin compared him to Rondo (LOL) but he has completely fallen off and does very little to make the team better.

I completely disagree.   He gets easy baskets for people, and is the most unselfish player on the team.
The announcer last night was right, every guy on this team gets the ball and tries to make a one on one move and then gives it up if nothings there.   No continual ball movement.  It's station to station.

Branch is the exception to that rule. 

The team had 1 assist in the first 20 minutes last night. It is just puzzling.

I really want to see Harrison and Jordan on the wings with Branch.

Quote from: desco80 on January 17, 2014, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: Needs2go on January 17, 2014, 01:10:09 PM

Branch is absolutely terrible.  He looked good for a 5 minute stretch against DePaul because DePaul St Johns games are out of control like Branch likes to play.  Against disciplined teams Branch is useless and should get no more than 5 minutes of spot play.  I liked Greene the first 2 years as Lavin compared him to Rondo (LOL) but he has completely fallen off and does very little to make the team better.

I completely disagree.   He gets easy baskets for people, and is the most unselfish player on the team.
The announcer last night was right, every guy on this team gets the ball and tries to make a one on one move and then gives it up if nothings there.   No continual ball movement.  It's station to station.

Branch is the exception to that rule. 

The team had 1 assist in the first 20 minutes last night. It is just puzzling.

I really want to see Harrison and Jordan on the wings with Branch.

And of all people it was Karr with the assist.

Quote from: upstate32 on January 17, 2014, 12:31:14 PM

1) Make Dom take 500 jump shots after every practice.  He improved his jumper as a sophomore but is worse than his freshman year currently. 

2a) Jordan needs to play 25-30 minutes a game.
2b) One of Branch / Jordan on the floor running the point at all times

3) Free Obekpa and build your defense around him.  I think man to man is the way to go and have him guard the teams worst shooting big. 

I don't think Dom has regressed. I just think he's lost in terms of where he has to be on the floor. There was one play last night where Dom caught it on the wing, drove to the basket, euro stepped, easy layup. He looked like a knife in butter.

I can honestly say that Dom can do that more often than not yet he just simply doesn't get the ball in those situations. He looks lost.

I was specifically talking about Dom's jumpshot that has regressed.  That was why I said he needs to take 500 jumpers a day. 

Maybe you are right and that he is lost in the offense because it seems like he has no confidence in his jumper.  Last year, he stepping into his jump shots and took them with confidence.  I wish Dom would drive to the basket more, because he does do that well. 

Quote from: desco80 on January 17, 2014, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: Needs2go on January 17, 2014, 01:10:09 PM

Branch is absolutely terrible.  He looked good for a 5 minute stretch against DePaul because DePaul St Johns games are out of control like Branch likes to play.  Against disciplined teams Branch is useless and should get no more than 5 minutes of spot play.  I liked Greene the first 2 years as Lavin compared him to Rondo (LOL) but he has completely fallen off and does very little to make the team better.

I completely disagree.   He gets easy baskets for people, and is the most unselfish player on the team.
The announcer last night was right, every guy on this team gets the ball and tries to make a one on one move and then gives it up if nothings there.   No continual ball movement.  It's station to station.

Branch is the exception to that rule. 

The team had 1 assist in the first 20 minutes last night. It is just puzzling.

I really want to see Harrison and Jordan on the wings with Branch.

With most coaches you could have these discussions on who should play more, or why so and so doesn't play enough. Usually you can find a reason why the coach is doing something even if you don't agree with the reason. With Lavin, he is all over the place and you can't even come up with a coherant reason for some of the stuff he does. SO what is the point. That is the most frustrating part.

Even with Norm I knew if Wright hit a couple jumpers he would get some burn at least.

The Hooper subbing just made no sense. Putting him in on D and out while we were on offense. Putting him for a cold Harrison then taking him out one possesion later for an offensive challenged Pointer. None of that makes any sense at all.

 What do all of these asst. coaches do?   I mean, does Keady just sit there next to Steve and say nothing?  I don't remember his Purdue teams completely lacking any sense of basketball IQ..   What about the other guys?    Great and developing talent I thought?   Guess not..  We literally have 5 idiots sitting in a row that are doing nothing to make changes and improvements..  Quite embarrassing..

I don't know what to say that hasn't been said already. IMO the solution is to get rid of Lavin ASAP. I don't care how good a recruiter he is; if the results aren't there then get someone else.  We need more wins not PR.

Quote from: Dave on January 17, 2014, 12:40:55 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on January 17, 2014, 12:31:14 PM

1) Make Dom take 500 jump shots after every practice.  He improved his jumper as a sophomore but is worse than his freshman year currently. 

2a) Jordan needs to play 25-30 minutes a game.
2b) One of Branch / Jordan on the floor running the point at all times

3) Free Obekpa and build your defense around him.  I think man to man is the way to go and have him guard the teams worst shooting big. 

I don't think Dom has regressed. I just think he's lost in terms of where he has to be on the floor. There was one play last night where Dom caught it on the wing, drove to the basket, euro stepped, easy layup. He looked like a knife in butter.

I can honestly say that Dom can do that more often than not yet he just simply doesn't get the ball in those situations. He looks lost.

I was specifically talking about Dom's jumpshot that has regressed.  That was why I said he needs to take 500 jumpers a day. 

Maybe you are right and that he is lost in the offense because it seems like he has no confidence in his jumper.  Last year, he stepping into his jump shots and took them with confidence.  I wish Dom would drive to the basket more, because he does do that well. 

I'm not sure you can say his "jumper has regressed"

I don't think it is a fundamental issue. He's never been a good perimeter shooter but he does have good touch within 15 ft. He and others are simply not playing to their strengths. Some is on the players and some is on the coaches. Both need to look in the mirror and improve.

Dlo needs more blow during the game. Because he's our best player he's going to be the go to guy down the stretch. He's awful in the clutch, maybe because he's tired. Sampson is supposed to be big time but brings very little when we need him the most. Jordon must have the ball with 15 seconds ticking down. He has a better chance of getting to the hole and getting fouled the Dlo who loses the handle.  Sanchez should set the pick and get ready to roll and Harrison should be Jordon's option if three guys jumping out at him. Best solution will come when and if Lavin gets to turn this class over. This team has fouling down pat. Other guys will always have a way to score just by trying to go by Sampson or Sanchez. No more guys trying to get to hoop 30 feet from basket, especially Harrison who fumbles his dribble or gets trapped under the basket. He's better driving the baseline. I am so tired with Lavin getting ripped I gotta say his players were a port in a storm. Great at throwing the game away. Penn.St, Depaul, and Providence were were handed to the by coach. Here ya go guys, just close it out. Nothing fancy needed. Dlo could not have left the court thinking the coach let him down. Coach asked him to make a pass or get to the line. Lavin's mistake. Kid sees to many minutes. Now don't bother ripping Lav, tell me I'm a lunatic.  Be less boring. Oh, the class Lav inherited from Norm was better then The players he brought in. Eventually they got it. 

Dlo needs more blow during the game. 

Either that or Meth.

Here's my idea:

Continue playing this bland, slow, vanilla style of basketball throughout the regular season while working on a Louisville/VCU type press in practice for the next month and a half. Then use that press in the BET. We can rotate 10 or 11 guys in and out to keep guys fresh while the other teams may not have that luxury. Add that to the fact that the opponent may be playing their 2nd or 3rd day in a row and we can take advantage of a fatigued team, or at least fatigued guards. What do we have to lose?

Quote from: Needs2go on January 17, 2014, 01:10:09 PM

Branch is absolutely terrible.  He looked good for a 5 minute stretch against DePaul because DePaul St Johns games are out of control like Branch likes to play.  Against disciplined teams Branch is useless and should get no more than 5 minutes of spot play.  I liked Greene the first 2 years as Lavin compared him to Rondo (LOL) but he has completely fallen off and does very little to make the team better.

I completely disagree.   He gets easy baskets for people, and is the most unselfish player on the team.
The announcer last night was right, every guy on this team gets the ball and tries to make a one on one move and then gives it up if nothings there.   No continual ball movement.  It's station to station.

Branch is the exception to that rule. 

+100 I will live with is penchant for a bad turnover or 2...his skill (like outside shootng) is soemthign we are missing every game...

Quote from: we are sju on January 17, 2014, 01:19:25 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 17, 2014, 01:17:32 PM

Quote from: Needs2go on January 17, 2014, 01:10:09 PM

Branch is absolutely terrible.  He looked good for a 5 minute stretch against DePaul because DePaul St Johns games are out of control like Branch likes to play.  Against disciplined teams Branch is useless and should get no more than 5 minutes of spot play.  I liked Greene the first 2 years as Lavin compared him to Rondo (LOL) but he has completely fallen off and does very little to make the team better.

Can you be more specific?

You pinpointed where he was excellent then proceeded to ride the bench where the team lost.

There is no doubt Branch has some flaws as do all players but I think he has the best court vision on the team, actually looks to penetrate and create, keeps defenses on their heels. He has a couple of bad turnovers which I could live without but again he is at least looking for his teammates.

While Phil Greene may not turnover the ball as much he takes some awful shots that count as turnovers in my stat sheet. Fran Fraschilla likes to call bad shots, "silent turnovers." This team has a lot of those.

When Phil shoots any shot I think it is a bad shot

Phil can makes these two shots very well.

1. Floater
2. Going to the left, step back.

Other than that face facts, he isn't a good shooter.

And doesn't do much of anything else well...defense is terrible...he would be revered on these boards if he traded minutes with Branch and played off the ball...the issues we experienced in his 1st 2 years that led to his more than expected PT, emboldened him to the point that he thinks he and Harrison are the go to guys

Quote from: Dave on January 17, 2014, 12:40:55 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on January 17, 2014, 12:31:14 PM

1) Make Dom take 500 jump shots after every practice.  He improved his jumper as a sophomore but is worse than his freshman year currently. 

2a) Jordan needs to play 25-30 minutes a game.
2b) One of Branch / Jordan on the floor running the point at all times

3) Free Obekpa and build your defense around him.  I think man to man is the way to go and have him guard the teams worst shooting big. 

I don't think Dom has regressed. I just think he's lost in terms of where he has to be on the floor. There was one play last night where Dom caught it on the wing, drove to the basket, euro stepped, easy layup. He looked like a knife in butter.

I can honestly say that Dom can do that more often than not yet he just simply doesn't get the ball in those situations. He looks lost.

I was specifically talking about Dom's jumpshot that has regressed.  That was why I said he needs to take 500 jumpers a day. 

Maybe you are right and that he is lost in the offense because it seems like he has no confidence in his jumper.  Last year, he stepping into his jump shots and took them with confidence.  I wish Dom would drive to the basket more, because he does do that well. 

Problem is they play off him so much, driving becomes difficult...I thin he should be running baseline looking for garbage goals

How many of you threw a sneaker at the TV when Phil came in for Sheed after his second foul. Either Jordan or Branch need to be on the court at all times.

One thing we can all agree on is that Branch or Jordan have to be on the court at all times. This team with all its athletes has no brain to run a normal halfcourt offense. This is where a true PG comes in.

Whoever said Branch is horrible clearly just doesn't understand what his role on this team could be if coached right. Branch is the one guy on the team who shows composure and acts like a true floor general. Even moreso than Jordan because Jordan gets crazy at times and puts his head down and drives to the basket out of control.

Yet Lavin's awful, pathetic patterns are killing any type of cohesion that is trying to be developed.

One thing we can all agree on is that Branch or Jordan have to be on the court at all times. This team with all its athletes has no brain to run a normal halfcourt offense. This is where a true PG comes in.

Whoever said Branch is horrible clearly just doesn't understand what his role on this team could be if coached right. Branch is the one guy on the team who shows composure and acts like a true floor general. Even moreso than Jordan because Jordan gets crazy at times and puts his head down and drives to the basket out of control.

Yet Lavin's awful, pathetic patterns are killing any type of cohesion that is trying to be developed.

I think the frustrating thing is we don't know the reason behind the perceived madness. We are not at practice, we are not in the huddle. What if Branch didn't know the plays? I would like to think there has to be a reason for it because it doesn't make any sense.

We need to start pressing the entire game, and just see what that does.

We haven't even tried to do that...what else is there to try?