Xavier Game 2

Quote from: Tha Kid on February 26, 2014, 08:32:15 AM

Lavin shouldn't be blamed for kids being lifeless in the most impt game of the season.  If you can't get up for games now while on the bubble you shouldn't be playin high level D1 ball.

Doesn't he claim to be a motivator?  Doesn't he thrive off of those speeches to rally the troops?

He does and I'm sure he tried. But again your great winning streak came to an end at nova, you are firmly on the bubble and on the right side of it, playing at home against another bubble team w achance to avenge an early season loss.  How much motivation do you need?  I wouldn't need any.  Sheed experienced a terrible tragedy and he showed life and spark.  Orlando prob hasn't slept much in days and he showed spark.  Jakarr showed life out there.  What's wrong w dlo, Greene, Dom that they can't even be showing that intensity and tenacity and urgency out there?

Played afraid for most of the game. Missed a ton a jump shots tonight. 9 points from Harrison and Greene in a game of this magnitude is stunning. I walked out the MSG wondering what on earth is going on? Anyone have any guesses?

I think Lavin screwing with the line up didn't help. Jordan didn't start, and why?

I'll field that one. Jordan didn't start so that if SJU lost the biggest game of the year Lavin could whine piously in the newspaper about how he was sparing the kid who's just gone through this and that and how there are some things more important than winning and so on, blah blah blah. Lavin was given an excuse card and he played it. He's as brave and selfless now as he was last year when he suspended Harrison. Same pathology, same behavior, same result. History repeats itself, this time as farce.

Last nights loss was inexcusable.  Most of the guys were totally lifeless out there (and rysheed and Orlando were not, for what it's worth).  The lineup Dave described was atrocious - when that lineup was put in me and my buddy were discussing how there would be no way we would perform well there. I think most of us fans could realize that - why can't coach?

That said, while the result was similar to early season, you could tell that aside from a few blunders by coach, this loss is on the players.  Lavin can't help them shoot better than 33 pct from the field or 50 pct from the line.  That's on them.  Dlo looked like he was trying out to be an extra on the walking dead.  Dom has looked clueless out there for multiple games.  Guys just standing around looking confused.  I don't know how you go on the run we did, play nova close on the road like we did, and in years most impt game we lay a huge egg.

I do think we still get in the dance by winning our next 4 and losing in BET.  Marillac is confident we get in with 21.  I say it's a 50/50 toss up at 21, and I don't like our chances considering our dearth of resume building victories. Though our SOS will help there and the fact we played nova creighton and cuse so close in losses as well. 22 is still the magic guaranteed number, the season is not over ( isn't even over if we lose the next 2 since the BET is winnable now as opposed to the last few years), but we have to play much much better than that.

Lavin shouldn't be blamed for kids being lifeless in the most impt game of the season.  If you can't get up for games now while on the bubble you shouldn't be playin high level D1 ball.

There is bigger problem at hand.  It's not the lack of X and O's or the bizarre substitution patterns.  Its at this point in late FEBRUARY where the crux of this team are juniors in age or late season sophomores where they do stand around helplessly.  Are they being told what to do?  Are they unable to comprehend it?  Are they refusing to do it?  It's impossible to pinpoint one issue.  Everyone has certain things that bug them.  To me its roster construction.  You are given 13 ships.  Yea in most cases only 10 play.  The majority of what we run out there have severe flaws in their games which lead to way too many times you are playing 4 on 5.  Playing 4 on 5 is ok if its a big man who can rebound or block as a shot as college is a guards game. 

And to tag on what Borzello said above.  I agree last night was arguably the most significant loss of Lavin's tenure IMO

Quote from: Tha Kid on February 26, 2014, 08:32:15 AM

Lavin shouldn't be blamed for kids being lifeless in the most impt game of the season.  If you can't get up for games now while on the bubble you shouldn't be playin high level D1 ball.

Doesn't he claim to be a motivator?  Doesn't he thrive off of those speeches to rally the troops? 

He credited himself with turning the season around with his halftime speech during the first Georgetown game. Maybe last night he had laryngitis.

Quote from: Tha Kid on February 26, 2014, 08:32:15 AM

Last nights loss was inexcusable.  Most of the guys were totally lifeless out there (and rysheed and Orlando were not, for what it's worth).  The lineup Dave described was atrocious - when that lineup was put in me and my buddy were discussing how there would be no way we would perform well there. I think most of us fans could realize that - why can't coach?

That said, while the result was similar to early season, you could tell that aside from a few blunders by coach, this loss is on the players.  Lavin can't help them shoot better than 33 pct from the field or 50 pct from the line.  That's on them.  Dlo looked like he was trying out to be an extra on the walking dead.  Dom has looked clueless out there for multiple games.  Guys just standing around looking confused.  I don't know how you go on the run we did, play nova close on the road like we did, and in years most impt game we lay a huge egg.

I do think we still get in the dance by winning our next 4 and losing in BET.  Marillac is confident we get in with 21.  I say it's a 50/50 toss up at 21, and I don't like our chances considering our dearth of resume building victories. Though our SOS will help there and the fact we played nova creighton and cuse so close in losses as well. 22 is still the magic guaranteed number, the season is not over ( isn't even over if we lose the next 2 since the BET is winnable now as opposed to the last few years), but we have to play much much better than that.

Lavin shouldn't be blamed for kids being lifeless in the most impt game of the season.  If you can't get up for games now while on the bubble you shouldn't be playin high level D1 ball.

There is bigger problem at hand.  It's not the lack of X and O's or the bizarre substitution patterns.  Its at this point in late FEBRUARY where the crux of this team are juniors in age or late season sophomores where they do stand around helplessly.  Are they being told what to do?  Are they unable to comprehend it?  Are they refusing to do it?  It's impossible to pinpoint one issue.  Everyone has certain things that bug them.  To me its roster construction.  You are given 13 ships.  Yea in most cases only 10 play.  The majority of what we run out there have severe flaws in their games which lead to way too many times you are playing 4 on 5.  Playing 4 on 5 is ok if its a big man who can rebound or block as a shot as college is a guards game. 

And to tag on what Borzello said above.  I agree last night was arguably the most significant loss of Lavin's tenure IMO

Agree that roster construction is poor, and then Lavin seems to have trouble recognizing individual strengths and weaknesses when coming up w lineups (hence last nights lineup where no scorers/shooters were on floor).  That said when maximizing our strengths - which we had done for the last month until last night - we are a top 25 caliber team.

Let's see if this play continues or if we snap out of it.  Still a lot of different ways this season can go.

Quote from: Moose on February 26, 2014, 08:38:29 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on February 26, 2014, 08:32:15 AM

Last nights loss was inexcusable.  Most of the guys were totally lifeless out there (and rysheed and Orlando were not, for what it's worth).  The lineup Dave described was atrocious - when that lineup was put in me and my buddy were discussing how there would be no way we would perform well there. I think most of us fans could realize that - why can't coach?

That said, while the result was similar to early season, you could tell that aside from a few blunders by coach, this loss is on the players.  Lavin can't help them shoot better than 33 pct from the field or 50 pct from the line.  That's on them.  Dlo looked like he was trying out to be an extra on the walking dead.  Dom has looked clueless out there for multiple games.  Guys just standing around looking confused.  I don't know how you go on the run we did, play nova close on the road like we did, and in years most impt game we lay a huge egg.

I do think we still get in the dance by winning our next 4 and losing in BET.  Marillac is confident we get in with 21.  I say it's a 50/50 toss up at 21, and I don't like our chances considering our dearth of resume building victories. Though our SOS will help there and the fact we played nova creighton and cuse so close in losses as well. 22 is still the magic guaranteed number, the season is not over ( isn't even over if we lose the next 2 since the BET is winnable now as opposed to the last few years), but we have to play much much better than that.

Lavin shouldn't be blamed for kids being lifeless in the most impt game of the season.  If you can't get up for games now while on the bubble you shouldn't be playin high level D1 ball.

There is bigger problem at hand.  It's not the lack of X and O's or the bizarre substitution patterns.  Its at this point in late FEBRUARY where the crux of this team are juniors in age or late season sophomores where they do stand around helplessly.  Are they being told what to do?  Are they unable to comprehend it?  Are they refusing to do it?  It's impossible to pinpoint one issue.  Everyone has certain things that bug them.  To me its roster construction.  You are given 13 ships.  Yea in most cases only 10 play.  The majority of what we run out there have severe flaws in their games which lead to way too many times you are playing 4 on 5.  Playing 4 on 5 is ok if its a big man who can rebound or block as a shot as college is a guards game. 

And to tag on what Borzello said above.  I agree last night was arguably the most significant loss of Lavin's tenure IMO

Agree that roster construction is poor, and then Lavin seems to have trouble recognizing individual strengths and weaknesses when coming up w lineups (hence last nights lineup where no scorers/shooters were on floor).  That said when maximizing our strengths - which we had done for the last month until last night - we are a top 25 caliber team.

Let's see if this play continues or if we snap out of it.  Still a lot of different ways this season can go.

I was in the corner of 21 wins gets in.  Not anymore.  Not after losing last night.  Team needs to win both and get to BE Finals.  Now will that be 2 or 3 wins depending on if we can get out of the bottom 4, that I don't know.  We now get to scoreboard watch.

Still a lot of different ways this season can go.

Not really a lot of ways. More like two. We win 4 games in a row and get a bid and lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Or we win 2 of our next three and lose in the semis of the NIT.

Last night was about players taking the night off.  We can blame coaches all we want, but I saw enough lazy defense, missed layups, and missed free throws to cost us the game .

Since when does Harrison need motivation for the biggest game of the season?  Sanchez and Jordan only ones that showed any heart.  Very disappointing.  Sampson left the defensive effort at home and missed plenty of easy ones.

I agree, that was too long of a stretch with that bad lineup in there, but lets be honest, our " good offense" wasn't doing anything either.

Last night was about players taking the night off.  We can blame coaches all we want, but I saw enough lazy defense, missed layups, and missed free throws to cost us the game .

Since when does Harrison need motivation for the biggest game of the season?  Sanchez and Jordan only ones that showed any heart.  Very disappointing.  Sampson left the defensive effort at home and missed plenty of easy ones.

I agree, that was too long of a stretch with that bad lineup in there, but lets be honest, our " good offense" wasn't doing anything either.

Back to back production in 50s speaks volumes.

Quote from: Tha Kid on February 26, 2014, 08:32:15 AM

Last nights loss was inexcusable.  Most of the guys were totally lifeless out there (and rysheed and Orlando were not, for what it's worth).  The lineup Dave described was atrocious - when that lineup was put in me and my buddy were discussing how there would be no way we would perform well there. I think most of us fans could realize that - why can't coach?

That said, while the result was similar to early season, you could tell that aside from a few blunders by coach, this loss is on the players.  Lavin can't help them shoot better than 33 pct from the field or 50 pct from the line.  That's on them.  Dlo looked like he was trying out to be an extra on the walking dead.  Dom has looked clueless out there for multiple games.  Guys just standing around looking confused.  I don't know how you go on the run we did, play nova close on the road like we did, and in years most impt game we lay a huge egg.

I do think we still get in the dance by winning our next 4 and losing in BET.  Marillac is confident we get in with 21.  I say it's a 50/50 toss up at 21, and I don't like our chances considering our dearth of resume building victories. Though our SOS will help there and the fact we played nova creighton and cuse so close in losses as well. 22 is still the magic guaranteed number, the season is not over ( isn't even over if we lose the next 2 since the BET is winnable now as opposed to the last few years), but we have to play much much better than that.

Lavin shouldn't be blamed for kids being lifeless in the most impt game of the season.  If you can't get up for games now while on the bubble you shouldn't be playin high level D1 ball.

There is bigger problem at hand.  It's not the lack of X and O's or the bizarre substitution patterns.  Its at this point in late FEBRUARY where the crux of this team are juniors in age or late season sophomores where they do stand around helplessly.  Are they being told what to do?  Are they unable to comprehend it?  Are they refusing to do it?  It's impossible to pinpoint one issue.  Everyone has certain things that bug them.  To me its roster construction.  You are given 13 ships.  Yea in most cases only 10 play.  The majority of what we run out there have severe flaws in their games which lead to way too many times you are playing 4 on 5.  Playing 4 on 5 is ok if its a big man who can rebound or block as a shot as college is a guards game. 

And to tag on what Borzello said above.  I agree last night was arguably the most significant loss of Lavin's tenure IMO

Roster construction, as noted, is core issue.

We embarrassed ourselves out there tonight. Terrible effort.  Lavin didn't coach a good game either. Bad lineups, we don't press enough, our guys played with no guts.  How do we let Reynolds get 16 rebounds and the PG get 10 assists?  We crapped the bed.  They didn't wnt it and played like pu$$ies...

Wow I think we should send someone to PA to make sure MCNPA is ok. When he starts to lose hope....
Not sure why everyone is going crazy, they play ver good D and we struggle on offense. Team played hard. We can't shoot. Those of us that watched the game saw the stat of what their D did to Cotton and Durham. If Harrison struggles who else can hit an outside shot? Our starting two guard hasn't scored 10 points in a game in about 2 months, Jordan's jumper is a work in progress and none of our three's can shoot threes which is pretty ironic.

Yesterday wasn't the killer, it was some of the early losses.   
 

Roster construction, as noted, is core issue.

What's wrong with the roster exactly? We have an NBA prospect at PG, one of the better shooting guards in SJU history at the two, an NBA prospect prototypical SF at the three, a PF who allegedly could start for the Jazz right now, and an NBA prospect shot blocking machine at center. We have two competent back up guards, two of the best three point shooters Lavin has ever seen for spot duty, a big dumb back up center in GGA, and a Cosco in a pear tree. There's nothing wrong with the roster - this is one of the more talented teams SJU has had since I've been watching basketball. If your point is that some of the players have shortcomings, name some perfect ones and explain why they'd want to come play college basketball in Jamaica. How many perfect players does Xavier have? What's perfect about that fat slob Stainbrook? The best looking part of his game are his tits.

This fish is rotting from the airhead down. How much more evidence do you need.

Thought this game was there for the taking in the first half. Harrison, Jordan, Sampson, Sanchez all on the bench and Xavier went on 8 pt run after St. John's built a 4 point lead. Can't have Branch, Greene, and Pointer out there because none of those want to or can shoot.

If you extend that 4 point lead to anything 6,8,10 then this changes the game.

The mental defensive lapses at the end of the game were unforgivable. Shooting more 3 pointers than FT is a problem.

Basically handed an inferior Xavier team a berth by going 0-2 against them.

I do agree that the lineup at that point was abig issue. When we went up three I believe, Lavin resorted to mad scientist and it hurt us. I do believe though if we played them 10 times they beat us at least 8 of them.

Quote from: MCNPA on February 25, 2014, 11:31:30 PM

We embarrassed ourselves out there tonight. Terrible effort.  Lavin didn't coach a good game either. Bad lineups, we don't press enough, our guys played with no guts.  How do we let Reynolds get 16 rebounds and the PG get 10 assists?  We crapped the bed.  They didn't wnt it and played like pu$$ies...

Wow I think we should send someone to PA to make sure MCNPA is ok. When he starts to lose hope....
Not sure why everyone is going crazy, they play ver good D and we struggle on offense. Team played hard. We can't shoot. Those of us that watched the game saw the stat of what their D did to Cotton and Durham. If Harrison struggles who else can hit an outside shot? Our starting two guard hasn't scored 10 points in a game in about 2 months, Jordan's jumper is a work in progress and none of our three's can shoot threes which is pretty ironic.

Yesterday wasn't the killer, it was some of the early losses.   
 

Did you want to discuss the first DePaul game then? What did you expect to be discussed this morning? The Crimean War? The hotly contested election of 1876? Tilden was robbed.

Quote from: Dave on February 26, 2014, 01:35:59 AM

Thought this game was there for the taking in the first half. Harrison, Jordan, Sampson, Sanchez all on the bench and Xavier went on 8 pt run after St. John's built a 4 point lead. Can't have Branch, Greene, and Pointer out there because none of those want to or can shoot.

If you extend that 4 point lead to anything 6,8,10 then this changes the game.

The mental defensive lapses at the end of the game were unforgivable. Shooting more 3 pointers than FT is a problem.

Basically handed an inferior Xavier team a berth by going 0-2 against them.

I do agree that the lineup at that point was abig issue. When we went up three I believe, Lavin resorted to mad scientist and it hurt us. I do believe though if we played them 10 times they beat us at least 8 of them.

24-21.

All downhill from there.  He tried to give Harrison a blow for minute and half before under 4 timeout.

How do we let Reynolds get 16 rebounds and the PG get 10 assists? 

Agreed especially since our Top 50 backup point guard played over 20 minutes and didn't record an assist.  Everything Branch does is flashy and he gets eaten alive on the defensive end he is just an absolutely clueless defender.

Quote from: we are sju on February 26, 2014, 09:33:47 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on February 25, 2014, 11:31:30 PM

We embarrassed ourselves out there tonight. Terrible effort.  Lavin didn't coach a good game either. Bad lineups, we don't press enough, our guys played with no guts.  How do we let Reynolds get 16 rebounds and the PG get 10 assists?  We crapped the bed.  They didn't wnt it and played like pu$$ies...

Wow I think we should send someone to PA to make sure MCNPA is ok. When he starts to lose hope....
Not sure why everyone is going crazy, they play ver good D and we struggle on offense. Team played hard. We can't shoot. Those of us that watched the game saw the stat of what their D did to Cotton and Durham. If Harrison struggles who else can hit an outside shot? Our starting two guard hasn't scored 10 points in a game in about 2 months, Jordan's jumper is a work in progress and none of our three's can shoot threes which is pretty ironic.

Yesterday wasn't the killer, it was some of the early losses.   
 

Did you want to discuss the first DePaul game then? What did you expect to be discussed this morning? The Crimean War? The hotly contested election of 1876? Tilden was robbed.

No I understand, the only thing I have an issue with is the Schizophrenic identity on this board. I have been mentioning that despite how well we have been playing that those early season Lavin induced lineup craziness could come back to haunt us. This thought was shouted down with "why worry about that, just enjoy the ride". Then we lose to two teams that are better than us and even MCNPA is about to commit Hari Kari.

The last two losses would have been acceptable had we played better ealy. You shocked we lost these two games?

Quote from: paultzman on February 26, 2014, 09:22:17 AM

Roster construction, as noted, is core issue.

What's wrong with the roster exactly? We have an NBA prospect at PG, one of the better shooting guards in SJU history at the two, an NBA prospect prototypical SF at the three, a PF who allegedly could start for the Jazz right now, and an NBA prospect shot blocking machine at center. We have two competent back up guards, two of the best three point shooters Lavin has ever seen for spot duty, a big dumb back up center in GGA, and a Cosco in a pear tree. There's nothing wrong with the roster - this is one of the more talented teams SJU has had since I've been watching basketball. If your point is that some of the players have shortcomings, name some perfect ones and explain why they'd want to come play college basketball in Jamaica. How many perfect players does Xavier have? What's perfect about that fat slob Stainbrook? The best looking part of his game are his tits.

This fish is rotting from the airhead down. How much more evidence do you need.

Certainly not minimizing the work of the head coach in making this group work. As my posts historically indicate, I have always had concerns about his strategic, in game capability.

Sanchez and Jordan only ones who played with any heart

Did Sanchez' heart slip out of his chest last night in the 2nd half.  When the game was on the line the guy was terrible on both sides of the ball.  He played one good half and everyone wants to crown him king.  Sanchez kills this team on the defensive end along with his buddy Branch.  Set a screen and those guys will run to the locker room.  Both just absolutely clueless.

Biggest myth about this underachieving team is its depth.  This team has absolutely no depth its just that the king of hype hyped the heck out of every player he recruited when maybe a total of 5 guys on this team actually have game.

And where is tool I was arguing with in here about how Harrison was not a leader of this team.  Where you at buddy?

Quote from: Foad on February 26, 2014, 09:34:59 AM

Quote from: paultzman on February 26, 2014, 09:22:17 AM

Roster construction, as noted, is core issue.

What's wrong with the roster exactly? We have an NBA prospect at PG, one of the better shooting guards in SJU history at the two, an NBA prospect prototypical SF at the three, a PF who allegedly could start for the Jazz right now, and an NBA prospect shot blocking machine at center. We have two competent back up guards, two of the best three point shooters Lavin has ever seen for spot duty, a big dumb back up center in GGA, and a Cosco in a pear tree. There's nothing wrong with the roster - this is one of the more talented teams SJU has had since I've been watching basketball. If your point is that some of the players have shortcomings, name some perfect ones and explain why they'd want to come play college basketball in Jamaica. How many perfect players does Xavier have? What's perfect about that fat slob Stainbrook? The best looking part of his game are his tits.

This fish is rotting from the airhead down. How much more evidence do you need.

Certainly not minimizing the work of the head coach in making this group work. As my posts historically indicate, I have always had concerns about his strategic, in game capability.

Quote from: Foad on February 26, 2014, 09:36:37 AM

Quote from: we are sju on February 26, 2014, 09:33:47 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on February 25, 2014, 11:31:30 PM

We embarrassed ourselves out there tonight. Terrible effort.  Lavin didn't coach a good game either. Bad lineups, we don't press enough, our guys played with no guts.  How do we let Reynolds get 16 rebounds and the PG get 10 assists?  We crapped the bed.  They didn't wnt it and played like pu$$ies...

Wow I think we should send someone to PA to make sure MCNPA is ok. When he starts to lose hope....
Not sure why everyone is going crazy, they play ver good D and we struggle on offense. Team played hard. We can't shoot. Those of us that watched the game saw the stat of what their D did to Cotton and Durham. If Harrison struggles who else can hit an outside shot? Our starting two guard hasn't scored 10 points in a game in about 2 months, Jordan's jumper is a work in progress and none of our three's can shoot threes which is pretty ironic.

Yesterday wasn't the killer, it was some of the early losses.   
 

Did you want to discuss the first DePaul game then? What did you expect to be discussed this morning? The Crimean War? The hotly contested election of 1876? Tilden was robbed.

No I understand, the only thing I have an issue with is the Schizophrenic identity on this board. I have been mentioning that despite how well we have been playing that those early season Lavin induced lineup craziness could come back to haunt us. This thought was shouted down with "why worry about that, just enjoy the ride". Then we lose to two teams that are better than us and even MCNPA is about to commit Hari Kari.

The last two losses would have been acceptable had we played better ealy. You shocked we lost these two games?

WSJU, why focus on extremes? There are many grounded posters who can view things  fairly and objectively. You are not going to change folks on far right or left sides of the equation. All in all, this is probably going to be a disappointing year, falling short of Lav's stated goal of Tourney participation. He will hopefully be judged accordingly if that occurs.