Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S

thinking Thomas will be 7-7 at a minimum.  Aggressive style, additional maturity, strength and experience should lead to immediate impact.  I love getting the older guys, see Laranaga/

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Id be surprised if he averaged 9. But that 3 more is not just 3 for us, its -3 for them. 6 rebound differential if you think about it. Huge.

Quote from: desco80 on May 05, 2014, 08:55:48 PM

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Id be surprised if he averaged 9. But that 3 more is not just 3 for us, its -3 for them. 6 rebound differential if you think about it. Huge.

That's true, but it probably also means 1 less block a game too.
And how many less baskets?   It's obviously not real clear, but I just think people don't appreciate what Jakarr did.   He wasn't nearly as inept of a rebounder and defender as some people are making him out to be.

And I'm glad we got Thomas. We needed him.
But he's not the missing piece.   Our struggles were with offensive efficiency.
And to the extent that he can put back a basket or two, he'll help.
But otherwise I think he's just one more player that doesn't need attention on offense.   And with Obekpa and Dom, we already have too many of those. 

We need a few guys like Brownlee and Paris their senior years.  Guys who can score a little bit, but don't need to dominate the ball to do it.   Guys who can finish on the break, score inside a bit, hit a jumper if given space, and make free throws at a decent clip.   

Dom, Phil, Jones need to be those guys, but I don't have a lot of faith that they will be. 

Major problem at this point will be finding someone who can be creative in the paint and draw defenders to them. Our guards are going to be played very tight on D as you dont have to worry about anyone up front scoring. 

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Agree desco.  Next year isn't going to be our year.  No offense up front.  Lavin is setting up for 15' but we won't have our frontcourt primed for the big time next year.  Thomas seems like a good addition but we will be playing big time schedule. 

Major problem at this point will be finding someone who can be creative in the paint and draw defenders to them. Our guards are going to be played very tight on D as you dont have to worry about anyone up front scoring. 

+1

Quote from: desco80 on May 05, 2014, 08:55:48 PM

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Agree desco.  Next year isn't going to be our year.  No offense up front.  Lavin is setting up for 15' but we won't have our frontcourt primed for the big time next year.  Thomas seems like a good addition but we will be playing big time schedule.

Maybe they'll surprise us.   And who knows, maybe there's a transfer still out there who can stretch the floor for us.   

But as mad as I get at Lavin, he has had some bad luck.  We're a much more dangerous offensive team if Sampson returns, or Tiny doesn't weasel his way into a job. 

Either way I'm happy to have a guy like Thomas.   Don't want to sound like sour grapes.   

Last 4 or 5 posts spot on. Good job. 

Quote from: DFF6 on May 05, 2014, 02:26:48 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 05, 2014, 02:24:35 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on May 05, 2014, 02:23:13 PM

Quote from: hnk on May 05, 2014, 02:10:56 PM

I think 2 or 3.

2 would be nice.  3 would be awesome.  I mixed up Martin's eligibility issues with Thomas'. I think Martin might have only 1 year left, which if true, can't help us with him given our new-found depth at the PF position.

We don't have depth at PF. If Thomas is a 4, we now have one guy who plays that position.

Not giving any consideration to C Jones?

I'll consider Jones a power forward when he learns to rebound and play defense

Nobody kill Jones more than me, but his  defense wasn't a problem.  He doesn't budge in the post.  His problem. was rebounding.  I am not sure what to expect out of him, but I think Thomas is a quality 25-minute guy.  At the very least Pointer can pickup the rest if Jones is a complete bust, but I don't think it will be that bad.  He was slightly ahead of GG on the depth chart going into this season based on minutes they received in Europe.

Welcome aboard, Keith. 

Major problem at this point will be finding someone who can be creative in the paint and draw defenders to them. Our guards are going to be played very tight on D as you dont have to worry about anyone up front scoring. 

I think we'll see better ball movement with Obekpa and Thomas in the game. Sampson and Sanchez were very poor screeners and spent too much time floating and playing on the perimeter.  Teams will learn quickly that they can't be as aggressive on defense or they will risk leaving the glass open for Okekpa and Thomas.  Basically, if you leave Thomas to help...you've lost the rebound.  That wasn't the case last season.  If we can get a wing flying in there as well...that would just be back-breaking to the opponent.  Thomas looks like an efficient scorer when he does get it and Obekpa showed flashes at the end of last season.  We don't need Olajuwon.

Sampson and Sanchez were two of the more predictable players in the league last season....Sampson especially. 

thinking Thomas will be 7-7 at a minimum.  Aggressive style, additional maturity, strength and experience should lead to immediate impact.  I love getting the older guys, see Laranaga/

How do we know any of this? He's mature? How do we know that?

Quote from: DoodyNY33 on May 05, 2014, 02:34:38 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on May 05, 2014, 02:26:48 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 05, 2014, 02:24:35 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on May 05, 2014, 02:23:13 PM

Quote from: hnk on May 05, 2014, 02:10:56 PM

I think 2 or 3.

2 would be nice.  3 would be awesome.  I mixed up Martin's eligibility issues with Thomas'. I think Martin might have only 1 year left, which if true, can't help us with him given our new-found depth at the PF position.

We don't have depth at PF. If Thomas is a 4, we now have one guy who plays that position.

Not giving any consideration to C Jones?

I'll consider Jones a power forward when he learns to rebound and play defense

Nobody kill Jones more than me, but his  defense wasn't a problem.  He doesn't budge in the post.  His problem. was rebounding.  I am not sure what to expect out of him, but I think Thomas is a quality 25-minute guy.  At the very least Pointer can pickup the rest if Jones is a complete bust, but I don't think it will be that bad.  He was slightly ahead of GG on the depth chart going into this season based on minutes they received in Europe.

Welcome aboard, Keith. 

Jones doesn't budge from the post? He doesn't budge from the bench

Quote from: desco80 on May 05, 2014, 08:55:48 PM

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Agree desco.  Next year isn't going to be our year.  No offense up front.  Lavin is setting up for 15' but we won't have our frontcourt primed for the big time next year.  Thomas seems like a good addition but we will be playing big time schedule. 

How can you say that next year isn't going to be our year? Lavin will have 2 pre season all BE players in Jordan and Harrison, and probably a 3rd on the all defensive team, and possibly 3rd team. Sorry, but losing Jakarr doesn't kill anything. For all the good he did, he caused just as many problems.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 05, 2014, 09:02:26 PM

Quote from: desco80 on May 05, 2014, 08:55:48 PM

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Id be surprised if he averaged 9. But that 3 more is not just 3 for us, its -3 for them. 6 rebound differential if you think about it. Huge.

That's true, but it probably also means 1 less block a game too.
And how many less baskets?   It's obviously not real clear, but I just think people don't appreciate what Jakarr did.   He wasn't nearly as inept of a rebounder and defender as some people are making him out to be.

And I'm glad we got Thomas. We needed him.
But he's not the missing piece.   Our struggles were with offensive efficiency.
And to the extent that he can put back a basket or two, he'll help.
But otherwise I think he's just one more player that doesn't need attention on offense.   And with Obekpa and Dom, we already have too many of those. 

We need a few guys like Brownlee and Paris their senior years.  Guys who can score a little bit, but don't need to dominate the ball to do it.   Guys who can finish on the break, score inside a bit, hit a jumper if given space, and make free throws at a decent clip.   

Dom, Phil, Jones need to be those guys, but I don't have a lot of faith that they will be. 

Aside from the Creighton game where Jakarr really played fantastic defense on the nations best player, I think Jakarr was every bit as bad a defender as many gave him credit for. Showed no interest, lost his man, never helped, lazy really.

Quote from: MCNPA on May 05, 2014, 10:43:17 PM

Quote from: desco80 on May 05, 2014, 08:55:48 PM

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Agree desco.  Next year isn't going to be our year.  No offense up front.  Lavin is setting up for 15' but we won't have our frontcourt primed for the big time next year.  Thomas seems like a good addition but we will be playing big time schedule. 

How can you say that next year isn't going to be our year? Lavin will have 2 pre season all BE players in Jordan and Harrison, and probably a 3rd on the all defensive team, and possibly 3rd team. Sorry, but losing Jakarr doesn't kill anything. For all the good he did, he caused just as many problems.

Agree poison, its ridiculous at this point to say that next year isnt our year.

Quote from: Poison on May 06, 2014, 12:52:14 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on May 05, 2014, 10:43:17 PM

Quote from: desco80 on May 05, 2014, 08:55:48 PM

Sampson avg 6reb a game last season, good for 7th in the Big East.
No one in the conference averaged more than 9.

So even assuming Thomas could lead the conference in rebounding, we're looking at a 3 reb improvement over Sampson.   
I don't see how that offsets Sampson's offense.   Not to mention Sanchez's. 

I think we're going to be in a deep hole offensively.    Hopefully Thomas can surprise us, with that area of his game. 

Agree desco.  Next year isn't going to be our year.  No offense up front.  Lavin is setting up for 15' but we won't have our frontcourt primed for the big time next year.  Thomas seems like a good addition but we will be playing big time schedule. 

How can you say that next year isn't going to be our year? Lavin will have 2 pre season all BE players in Jordan and Harrison, and probably a 3rd on the all defensive team, and possibly 3rd team. Sorry, but losing Jakarr doesn't kill anything. For all the good he did, he caused just as many problems.

Agree poison, its ridiculous at this point to say that next year isnt our year.

I still think we are absent of any offense up front which will kill us which is why I say that.  Losing Sanchez and Sampson was a huge hit to our offense up front, and we weren't the best scorers up front to begin with.  Both Sampson and Sanchez are being undervalued here.  Both had scoring ability far beyond what we have replaced them with. 

I know our guards are good.  Up front we are going to have a big problem i think, unless we get some significant scoring out of Thomas and Jones which I can't see.  Teams will zone us to death with little offense up front and little perimeter scoring.  I hope I'm writing, but I can't see us competing with the better front courts.

Really don't know anything about Thomas other than he's supposed to be aggressive on the boards. If he's a one trick pony it will be a struggle to have him and Obekpa on the floor at the same time.

Really don't know anything about Thomas other than he's supposed to be aggressive on the boards. If he's a one trick pony it will be a struggle to have him and Obekpa on the floor at the same time.

Add pointer to that no offense mix up front.  Imo we are still in big trouble offensively up front.  Even Sanchez was light years better than any offensive option we have in our front court entering next season unless Thomas really surprises.  I'm very concerned about it. 

Quote from: Dave on May 06, 2014, 08:27:58 AM

Really don't know anything about Thomas other than he's supposed to be aggressive on the boards. If he's a one trick pony it will be a struggle to have him and Obekpa on the floor at the same time.

Add pointer to that no offense mix up front.  Imo we are still in big trouble offensively up front.  Even Sanchez was light years better than any offensive option we have in our front court entering next season unless Thomas really surprises.  I'm very concerned about it. 

If we don't get Martin, I think the combo of Obekpa and Thomas makes a strong case for using the 3 guard lineup of Harrison, Jordan and Branch for the majority of time to offset the loss of front court offense.  I'm assuming Jones is not the answer and Dom's stunted growth remains stunted.

Sampson and Sanchez were two of the more predictable players in the league last season....Sampson especially. 

Exactly: you could pencil Sampson in for 12 and 6 every night. Very predictable.