SJUBB misinformation

Quote from: Marillac on April 05, 2014, 04:16:54 PM

Quote from: MullinJaxBerry on April 05, 2014, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: ras on April 05, 2014, 12:10:38 PM

I think if we keep everyone ,have the Delarosa bros and the Westchester JC transfer we can be ok. We have a lot of talent and exp in our back court. But if we loose more players  ,next year is going to be a long year.

The Delarosa borthers plus the kid from westchester to replace Sampson and CO. Maybe 17 wins at best, and that`s if Jordan doesn`t transfer.

C'mon.  Sampson was a speed boat with an engine that could do 50 mph with holes all over the hull.  What good does such a good engine do when the thing can't float?

ADR and the WCC kid don't have that engine but have less holes.  We did so many things poorly last year....awful rebounding, next to no lost defense, nobody that could body a big man, horrible mistakes and mental lapses, big men that thought they were guards, etc. 

There is no way this team I worse than this past season with the trio of Joey, ADR, and this WCC kid alongside CJ.  No way . There were stretches were it looked like we had nobody playing defense at all down low.

Speed boat engine has been downgraded but hopefully the holes have been patched.  CO had a horrible attitude.  This kid from WCC said in a recent article "I will outwork you."  Last year's team needed some of that.  His college coach called him a modern day Dennis Rodman with better offensive skills.

I have seen both brothers through the years and have my reservations that either can contribute much in year one. I have never seen Thomas. Have you seen these guys or are you just judging from videos? Thanks.

I've never seen any of them play in person.  I've see ADR play games online...never saw Joey.  I watched a 20 minute game clip of WCC with Thomas.  I don't think any of the three are better players than Sampson or CO.  They all have much lower ceilings...especially Joey, but they also seem to understand their position and role better than Sampson and Sanchez ever could.

Thomas goes after everything.  He's in the middle of every single play....on the floor, boxing out like a beast, and he even has a few decent moves from the mid-post in--although I would not expect scoring from him.  His role will be defense and rebounding wherever he goes, and he clearly accepts that.  He never too more than two dribbles and usually got rid of the ball before even taking one.

CO is a much bigger loss than either Sampson or Sanchez, but he only played 20 mpg.  I have my doubts on how long we can expect to play with the DelaRosa brothers, and I'd expect that smaller guys like Thomas or Jones would have to fill in at the five.  I don't like that, but all three of the new guys (assuming we get the other two) will be playing near the basket and won't hold any ideas about being a two or a three. 

Our front court was a big weakness this past season.  We had next to no low post offense, defense was non-existent with CO out of the game, our bigs floated on the perimeter and outside of CO screened very poorly.  Rebounding was poor as well.

I keep saying that what Crean and other coaches preach:  you have to be good before you can be great.  It's nice to have a PF that can stretch a defense like Cleanthony Early on Wichita...but you cannot do that stuff unless you do what you HAVE TO as a PF first:  rebound, screen, d-up.  Sampson did not do those things.   Sanchez did not do those things.  CO started to late, but he was never on the floor.   We didn't lose Ty Grant and Jason Williams...we lost some guys that could be really, really good, but did not do enough for St. John's to be successful.  From the sound of it, I would have traded Sampson for this Thomas kid last season in a heart beat....doesn't mean he's better just means he's better for us.

Quote from: paultzman on April 05, 2014, 04:23:44 PM

Quote from: Marillac on April 05, 2014, 04:16:54 PM

Quote from: MullinJaxBerry on April 05, 2014, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: ras on April 05, 2014, 12:10:38 PM

I think if we keep everyone ,have the Delarosa bros and the Westchester JC transfer we can be ok. We have a lot of talent and exp in our back court. But if we loose more players  ,next year is going to be a long year.

The Delarosa borthers plus the kid from westchester to replace Sampson and CO. Maybe 17 wins at best, and that`s if Jordan doesn`t transfer.

C'mon.  Sampson was a speed boat with an engine that could do 50 mph with holes all over the hull.  What good does such a good engine do when the thing can't float?

ADR and the WCC kid don't have that engine but have less holes.  We did so many things poorly last year....awful rebounding, next to no lost defense, nobody that could body a big man, horrible mistakes and mental lapses, big men that thought they were guards, etc. 

There is no way this team I worse than this past season with the trio of Joey, ADR, and this WCC kid alongside CJ.  No way . There were stretches were it looked like we had nobody playing defense at all down low.

Speed boat engine has been downgraded but hopefully the holes have been patched.  CO had a horrible attitude.  This kid from WCC said in a recent article "I will outwork you."  Last year's team needed some of that.  His college coach called him a modern day Dennis Rodman with better offensive skills.

I have seen both brothers through the years and have my reservations that either can contribute much in year one. I have never seen Thomas. Have you seen these guys or are you just judging from videos? Thanks.

I've never seen any of them play in person.  I've see ADR play games online...never saw Joey.  I watched a 20 minute game clip of WCC with Thomas.  I don't think any of the three are better players than Sampson or CO.  They all have much lower ceilings...especially Joey, but they also seem to understand their position and role better than Sampson and Sanchez ever could.

Thomas goes after everything.  He's in the middle of every single play....on the floor, boxing out like a beast, and he even has a few decent moves from the mid-post in--although I would not expect scoring from him.  His role will be defense and rebounding wherever he goes, and he clearly accepts that.  He never too more than two dribbles and usually got rid of the ball before even taking one.

CO is a much bigger loss than either Sampson or Sanchez, but he only played 20 mpg.  I have my doubts on how long we can expect to play with the DelaRosa brothers, and I'd expect that smaller guys like Thomas or Jones would have to fill in at the five.  I don't like that, but all three of the new guys (assuming we get the other two) will be playing near the basket and won't hold any ideas about being a two or a three. 

Our front court was a big weakness this past season.  We had next to no low post offense, defense was non-existent with CO out of the game, our bigs floated on the perimeter and outside of CO screened very poorly.  Rebounding was poor as well.

I keep saying that what Crean and other coaches preach:  you have to be good before you can be great.  It's nice to have a PF that can stretch a defense like Cleanthony Early on Wichita...but you cannot do that stuff unless you do what you HAVE TO as a PF first:  rebound, screen, d-up.  Sampson did not do those things.   Sanchez did not do those things.  CO started to late, but he was never on the floor.   We didn't lose Ty Grant and Jason Williams...we lost some guys that could be really, really good, but did not do enough for St. John's to be successful.  From the sound of it, I would have traded Sampson for this Thomas kid last season in a heart beat....doesn't mean he's better just means he's better for us.

Thx Marillac. Could you post that video? Would like to take a look at Thomas.

Thomas goes after everything.  He's in the middle of every single play....on the floor, boxing out like a beast, and he even has a few decent moves from the mid-post in--although I would not expect scoring from him.  His role will be defense and rebounding wherever he goes, and he clearly accepts that.  He never too more than two dribbles and usually got rid of the ball before even taking one.

Achiewa was a first team all american and JC player of the year as a soph, averaging 22 points and 11 rebounds, top 10 in the country in both. He shot 56 percent from the floor and 36 percent from three at Erie. He scored more than 30 points 4 times. He was 3rd team AA as a freshman and Region 111 player of the year twice in two years. Somehow that did not translate to the Big East.

Quote from: MullinJaxBerry on April 05, 2014, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: ras on April 05, 2014, 12:10:38 PM

I think if we keep everyone ,have the Delarosa bros and the Westchester JC transfer we can be ok. We have a lot of talent and exp in our back court. But if we loose more players  ,next year is going to be a long year.

The Delarosa borthers plus the kid from westchester to replace Sampson and CO. Maybe 17 wins at best, and that`s if Jordan doesn`t transfer.

C'mon.  Sampson was a speed boat with an engine that could do 50 mph with holes all over the hull.  What good does such a good engine do when the thing can't float?

ADR and the WCC kid don't have that engine but have less holes.  We did so many things poorly last year....awful rebounding, next to no lost defense, nobody that could body a big man, horrible mistakes and mental lapses, big men that thought they were guards, etc. 

There is no way this team I worse than this past season with the trio of Joey, ADR, and this WCC kid alongside CJ.  No way . There were stretches were it looked like we had nobody playing defense at all down low.

Speed boat engine has been downgraded but hopefully the holes have been patched.  CO had a horrible attitude.  This kid from WCC said in a recent article "I will outwork you."  Last year's team needed some of that.  His college coach called him a modern day Dennis Rodman with better offensive skills.

A modern day Rodman huh? Well with all the hype from Lavin, comparing incoming players to nba stars, and then being disappointed.
I`ll wait to see with my own eyes before getting excited.

Quote from: Marillac on April 05, 2014, 04:43:44 PM

Thomas goes after everything.  He's in the middle of every single play....on the floor, boxing out like a beast, and he even has a few decent moves from the mid-post in--although I would not expect scoring from him.  His role will be defense and rebounding wherever he goes, and he clearly accepts that.  He never too more than two dribbles and usually got rid of the ball before even taking one.

Achiewa was a first team all american and JC player of the year as a soph, averaging 22 points and 11 rebounds, top 10 in the country in both. He shot 56 percent from the floor and 36 percent from three at Erie. He scored more than 30 points 4 times. He was 3rd team AA as a freshman and Region 111 player of the year twice in two years. Somehow that did not translate to the Big East.

GG played D-2 in a weaker area.  WCC is D-1 and they play a more difficult schedule.  15.7 rebounds per game is really an absurd total...higher than GG, higher than Sanchez, higher than Jarrid Famous, higher than Cleanthony Early.  If he can rebound and play defense, he would be a welcome addition. 

Dom Pointer should be running in the gym jump shooting 10 hours a day right now

I would rather him walk to the gym and instead take jump shots for 11 hours a day.

If we only land Delarosa and a jc power forward, our front court will be atrocious next year.

If we only land Delarosa and a jc power forward, our front court will be atrocious next year.

The fruits of an abysmal recruiting effort this year.  You don't have to be a genius to know Sampson would possibly leave. Scrambling this late is sad & was avoidable.

So the rumor of Donovan coming to SJU if he loses in the Final 4 is not true?

So the rumor of Donovan coming to SJU if he loses in the Final 4 is not true?

Ray Donovan more likely.

Quote from: mjmaherjr on April 05, 2014, 04:28:57 PM

Dom Pointer should be running in the gym jump shooting 10 hours a day right now

I would rather him walk to the gym and instead take jump shots for 11 hours a day.

I'm sure his new staff will have him doing just that during his redshirt season.

GG played D-2 in a weaker area.  WCC is D-1 and they play a more difficult schedule.  15.7 rebounds per game is really an absurd total...higher than GG, higher than Sanchez, higher than Jarrid Famous, higher than Cleanthony Early.  If he can rebound and play defense, he would be a welcome addition. 

I find it hard to believe that the difference in junior college basketball within NY state is so significant that a two time All American in Buffalo is substantially less skilled and faced substantially lesser competition than a similarly situated player in Westchester. Of course I haven't studied the matter, as you obviously have, so I'll defer.

Considering recent events we should be thankful anyone wants to come play for Bozo the Lavin, much less the best rebounder since Dennis Rodman. For that reason alone he'd be a welcome addition. BB wise nearly anyone would, because we have nothing up front. If he were to average 10 rebounds a game - what JC transfer Walter Berry averaged when he was D1 POTY - that's plus 4 rebounds a game from what Sampson gave "us." (And Sampson was a terrible rebounder.) On the bright side this Thomas fellow shoots 57 percent from the free throw line, which is higher than the three front court players he's replacing, so there's that.

Quote from: Marillac on April 05, 2014, 05:51:36 PM

GG played D-2 in a weaker area.  WCC is D-1 and they play a more difficult schedule.  15.7 rebounds per game is really an absurd total...higher than GG, higher than Sanchez, higher than Jarrid Famous, higher than Cleanthony Early.  If he can rebound and play defense, he would be a welcome addition. 

I find it hard to believe that the difference in junior college basketball within NY state is so significant that a two time All American in Buffalo is substantially less skilled and faced substantially lesser competition than a similarly situated player in Westchester. Of course I haven't studied the matter, as you obviously have, so I'll defer.

Considering recent events we should be thankful anyone wants to come play for Bozo the Lavin, much less the best rebounder since Dennis Rodman. For that reason alone he'd be a welcome addition. BB wise nearly anyone would, because we have nothing up front. If he were to average 10 rebounds a game - what JC transfer Walter Berry averaged when he was D1 POTY - that's plus 4 rebounds a game from what Sampson gave "us." (And Sampson was a terrible rebounder.) On the bright side this Thomas fellow shoots 57 percent from the free throw line, which is higher than the three front court players he's replacing, so there's that.

Marital  is correct, the Division that GG was/is weaker.

 Pointer in the gym won't help him learn to shoot or play smart. He' s what he is and won't get better.

Walter Berry , at his current age, would average 10 RPG .. He is one of our All Time greats.

Most of us saw early on with Lavin that his Coaching skills were not equal to most of his competitors in the BE, old or new. And, his management of the team and program are , at this moment, suspect.  Too much hype about the quality of his recruits waned as we saw their games did not equal the press clippings. And, bizarre Coaching line ups and lack of a gameplan are troubling.
And, the defections the past years and certainly now, are sounding alarms.

Putting the DLR bothers and Thomas into next year's equation and forecasting their performance contributions are premature. More  pressing is whether we need a new Coach and, will we retain the players we have now on the team?

After Monday nites game, the post season circus will begin in earnest. Stay Tuned, BOPPERS.

Quote from: nudginator59 on April 05, 2014, 07:50:55 PM

So the rumor of Donovan coming to SJU if he loses in the Final 4 is not true?

Ray Donovan

Donovan Leitch.  Instead of rap the team will be forced to listen to 60s folk music.  This will make them so angry that they will roll over everyone in their pat

Quote from: Marillac on April 05, 2014, 05:51:36 PM

GG played D-2 in a weaker area.  WCC is D-1 and they play a more difficult schedule.  15.7 rebounds per game is really an absurd total...higher than GG, higher than Sanchez, higher than Jarrid Famous, higher than Cleanthony Early.  If he can rebound and play defense, he would be a welcome addition. 

I find it hard to believe that the difference in junior college basketball within NY state is so significant that a two time All American in Buffalo is substantially less skilled and faced substantially lesser competition than a similarly situated player in Westchester. Of course I haven't studied the matter, as you obviously have, so I'll defer.

Considering recent events we should be thankful anyone wants to come play for Bozo the Lavin, much less the best rebounder since Dennis Rodman. For that reason alone he'd be a welcome addition. BB wise nearly anyone would, because we have nothing up front. If he were to average 10 rebounds a game - what JC transfer Walter Berry averaged when he was D1 POTY - that's plus 4 rebounds a game from what Sampson gave "us." (And Sampson was a terrible rebounder.) On the bright side this Thomas fellow shoots 57 percent from the free throw line, which is higher than the three front court players he's replacing, so there's that.

I coached in that region and played most of the schools those teams faced.  There are changes from year to year, but schools tend to stay the same.  Some schools are so bad it is ridiculous....Ulster, Rockland, etc.  Some schools are solid...some a very good and can compete with anyone nationally (Sullivan, Monroe, Globe, etc). 
This year Harkum had more size than SJU and WCC played them 3x.  There really aren't a lot of of good D-2 teams in NY...there are actually better D-3 teams in the area.  Outside of Erie, there are not many good teams up there.

I wouldn't get too hung up on All-American status outside of D1 JuCos.  There was a kid that Norm cut as a walkon at St. John's that went on to be a two-time All-American JUCo and even player of the year as a soph. 

Quote from: Foad on April 06, 2014, 06:32:10 AM

Quote from: Marillac on April 05, 2014, 05:51:36 PM

GG played D-2 in a weaker area.  WCC is D-1 and they play a more difficult schedule.  15.7 rebounds per game is really an absurd total...higher than GG, higher than Sanchez, higher than Jarrid Famous, higher than Cleanthony Early.  If he can rebound and play defense, he would be a welcome addition. 

I find it hard to believe that the difference in junior college basketball within NY state is so significant that a two time All American in Buffalo is substantially less skilled and faced substantially lesser competition than a similarly situated player in Westchester. Of course I haven't studied the matter, as you obviously have, so I'll defer.

Considering recent events we should be thankful anyone wants to come play for Bozo the Lavin, much less the best rebounder since Dennis Rodman. For that reason alone he'd be a welcome addition. BB wise nearly anyone would, because we have nothing up front. If he were to average 10 rebounds a game - what JC transfer Walter Berry averaged when he was D1 POTY - that's plus 4 rebounds a game from what Sampson gave "us." (And Sampson was a terrible rebounder.) On the bright side this Thomas fellow shoots 57 percent from the free throw line, which is higher than the three front court players he's replacing, so there's that.

I coached in that region and played most of the schools those teams faced.  There are changes from year to year, but schools tend to stay the same.  Some schools are so bad it is ridiculous....Ulster, Rockland, etc.  Some schools are solid...some a very good and can compete with anyone nationally (Sullivan, Monroe, Globe, etc). 
This year Harkum had more size than SJU and WCC played them 3x.  There really aren't a lot of of good D-2 teams in NY...there are actually better D-3 teams in the area.  Outside of Erie, there are not many good teams up there.

I wouldn't get too hung up on All-American status outside of D1 JuCos.  There was a kid that Norm cut as a walkon at St. John's that went on to be a two-time All-American JUCo and even player of the year as a soph. 

I think all I'm suggesting is that I don't expect much immediately from an unheralded JC player, or even a heralded one. Those JCs who've had immediate success  at SJ were great players who had academic issues: eg Berry and Boo Harvey. Even superior JC players - eg James Scott and Hardy - take a year to get acclimated. Even transfer wise for every successful one (Reggie Carter) we get a two Paul Berwangers. I agree that this year's team lacked a blue collar presence. I disagree that one coming in at Sampson's expense is a net positive.

Quote from: Marillac on April 06, 2014, 02:58:05 PM

Quote from: Foad on April 06, 2014, 06:32:10 AM

Quote from: Marillac on April 05, 2014, 05:51:36 PM

GG played D-2 in a weaker area.  WCC is D-1 and they play a more difficult schedule.  15.7 rebounds per game is really an absurd total...higher than GG, higher than Sanchez, higher than Jarrid Famous, higher than Cleanthony Early.  If he can rebound and play defense, he would be a welcome addition. 

I find it hard to believe that the difference in junior college basketball within NY state is so significant that a two time All American in Buffalo is substantially less skilled and faced substantially lesser competition than a similarly situated player in Westchester. Of course I haven't studied the matter, as you obviously have, so I'll defer.

Considering recent events we should be thankful anyone wants to come play for Bozo the Lavin, much less the best rebounder since Dennis Rodman. For that reason alone he'd be a welcome addition. BB wise nearly anyone would, because we have nothing up front. If he were to average 10 rebounds a game - what JC transfer Walter Berry averaged when he was D1 POTY - that's plus 4 rebounds a game from what Sampson gave "us." (And Sampson was a terrible rebounder.) On the bright side this Thomas fellow shoots 57 percent from the free throw line, which is higher than the three front court players he's replacing, so there's that.

I coached in that region and played most of the schools those teams faced.  There are changes from year to year, but schools tend to stay the same.  Some schools are so bad it is ridiculous....Ulster, Rockland, etc.  Some schools are solid...some a very good and can compete with anyone nationally (Sullivan, Monroe, Globe, etc). 
This year Harkum had more size than SJU and WCC played them 3x.  There really aren't a lot of of good D-2 teams in NY...there are actually better D-3 teams in the area.  Outside of Erie, there are not many good teams up there.

I wouldn't get too hung up on All-American status outside of D1 JuCos.  There was a kid that Norm cut as a walkon at St. John's that went on to be a two-time All-American JUCo and even player of the year as a soph. 

I think all I'm suggesting is that I don't expect much immediately from an unheralded JC player, or even a heralded one. Those JCs who've had immediate success  at SJ were great players who had academic issues: eg Berry and Boo Harvey. Even superior JC players - eg James Scott and Hardy - take a year to get acclimated. Even transfer wise for every successful one (Reggie Carter) we get a two Paul Berwangers. I agree that this year's team lacked a blue collar presence. I disagree that one coming in at Sampson's expense is a net positive.

Sampson had the physical ability to be one of the best  rebounders in the country.  His lack of work on his body, defense, and  positioning--instead hoisting 500 treys a day--and coming in with the mindset of being a three killed this team.  I've never seen a trio with such a low basketball IQ as Sanchez-Pointer-Sampson.  None of them did the little things you have to do first...things that don't take elite athleticism to do. 

I could see it being a net positive.  At the very least, I'd rather lose with lesser talented kids giving everything they've got than win with elite athletes that are just scraping the surface of their potential. 

We'd be better off if Sampson just told Lavin no when they first spoke in 2010. 

His lack of work on his body, defense, and  positioning--instead hoisting 500 treys a day--and coming in with the mindset of being a three killed this team. 

His fouling the Penn State 3 point shooter with 6 seconds remaining and missing the go ahead layup in the final minute of the BE tournament killed this team.

Dom Pointer should be running in the gym jump shooting 10 hours a day right now

Why do you want our starting center shooting jumpers? Needs to work on rebounding and growing.
Btw we will go from 1st in blocked shots to not blocking a shot all year.