Chicken/Egg -- Recruits/Extension

If jordan and obekpa come back , we should be fine next year. If they leave why is it his fault ? I know these guys want to go pro but it so crazy for me to accept that. They are not even close to being ready. Plenty of very good college players never make the NBA . 
The only way he gets fired is if the team implodes and we don't make the tournament . Look at our schedule . Besides Duke no team has more talent. We are going to win a lot of games. He is not getting fired winning 23 plus games. He hasn't done that yet but that is what I expect . Scheule is set up perfectly for a good year. Last year wasn't as awful as you guys remeber. Even with the 0-5 start we were very close to the tournament . 
About recruting- don't understand any critiques . He has been a head coach for about 10 years . His teams always have good players on them . I expect that we will replace this years seniors with another strong class. I say that not because I love him, but because he always brings in players. 

Does the new president come to any of the games?

If he hasn't been at every game its pretty damn close.

Sampson's 30 only emerged in late, late Spring......It was obvious Jordan and CO would get more minutes this year (especially if they stayed out of foul trouble.)

Jordan and Chris both played 20+ last season.   Sure they were slated to get more minutes, but they were already playing a lot.  There was considerable playing time available, especially in the front court.   Staff was counting on Jones, Thomas, and ADR.  And so far you have to conclude that was mistake, because they've collectively given us nothing.  

Quote from: hnk on December 08, 2014, 10:26:53 AM

We start out behind these other school (and always or almost always will)....then this year and last year w had limited playing time to offer. I believe Delarosa overtime will turn out to be fine.......time to stop complaining and start rooting loudly....and time for an extension. It's not time to complain about the 2015 recruiting class until May or even later. Can anyone honestly say our players have not improved? CO, PG, DP. etc.? Did anyone watch us break the Cuse zone? Hold Cooney? Hit foul shots? Limit turnovers? Hang in against unfair calls? Handle the crowd and the forum?

Chris has improved.  But it took a trip to John Lucas it seems.
Dom was arguably the highest ranked player of that class.  4 years is a long time to finally hit stride.  That falls on both him and the staff.  Him and Phil both are examples of not being used properly.
More than 80% of the 2015 class is committed elsewhere.  I don't have the time or energy to look again but its likely 85-90%.  Yes we are still in it with Diallo and Sampson from an elite level.  But we could be facing a team next year where Jones and Stewart at 7 or 8 mpg are leading returners.
I know we stand on two sides of the line here.  And as Desco pointed out I'm happy this thread exists and we have kept it civil.  We wont a great game on Saturday but still doesnt mean the whole thing should be immune to constructive discussion from everyone for and against where we are headed.

I'm not hoping for a bad loss, but it would be interesting to see how this team would react. Right now they are having a lot of fun out there, making the extra pass to find the open teammate, etc. Going crazy when a teammate makes a great play. In the past it seemed like most were playing with a me first attitude.

We just see what happens on game day. There is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that happens that only the team and SJU admins know about. All should and will be taken into consideration by the people deciding if Lavin should be extended or let go.

When I was working in the SJU athletic office each student athlete that was graduating/transferring had an exit interview with a SJU admin to discuss their time at SJU and under their coach. This use to play a major role in the decision if a coach was kept or let go (not just men's basketball).

Who in their right mind thinks Obekpa and Jordan are coming back? And if they did, there are still too many question marks going into year 6. Time to move on

If jordan and obekpa come back , we should be fine next year. If they leave why is it his fault ? I know these guys want to go pro but it so crazy for me to accept that. They are not even close to being ready. Plenty of very good college players never make the NBA . The only way he gets fired is if the team implodes and we don't make the tournament . Look at our schedule . Besides Duke no team has more talent. We are going to win a lot of games. He is not getting fired winning 23 plus games. He hasn't done that yet but that is what I expect . Scheule is set up perfectly for a good year. Last year wasn't as awful as you guys remeber. Even with the 0-5 start we were very close to the tournament . About recruting- don't understand any critiques . He has been a head coach for about 10 years . His teams always have good players on them . I expect that we will replace this years seniors with another strong class. I say that not because I love him, but because he always brings in players.

It's his 'fault' because you build a team that can compete every year. You don't build it for a hurrah and then start over.  You know they type of player you are recruiting and how much they have their eye on the next level.  And because of that you make sure the role players get time.

I agree they shouldnt go.  And them coming back are two good blocks to build on.  But one almost left last year and the other speaks about the NBA every single day including direct statements saying he will be running point there next year.  I know talk is cheap but if you were a betting man the odds are in your favor.

You cannot succeed living in the Spring signing period.  If they are available in the spring there is a reason.  And most of the time its not a good one.

You can always move on (or move back) to Iona.

Would SJU consider that 5 year rollover contract similar to what they gave Norm?

I don't remember the details. Was it a low buy out?

If SJU was going to give him an extension, it would've happened by now.   The president has been in place since the spring, there's been ample time to do this.
I think it's telling that there is no extension.    I also think there is a lot of concern about how it would look to the university community to buy-out the basketball coach's contract for over a million dollars.   That is not chump change, and to pay it to someone to not work isn't great optics. 

If SJU was going to give him an extension, it would've happened by now. The president has been in place since the spring, there's been able time to do this. I think it's telling that there is no extension. I also think there is a lot of concern about how it would look to the university community to buy-out the basketball coach's contract for over a million dollars. That is not chump change, and to pay it to someone to not work isn't great optics.

They've been paying someone not to work for years

If SJU was going to give him an extension, it would've happened by now.   The president has been in place since the spring, there's been able time to do this.
I think it's telling that there is no extension.    I also think there is a lot of concern about how it would look to the university community to buy-out the basketball coach's contract for over a million dollars.   That is not chump change, and to pay it to someone to not work isn't great optics.

I do agree that it's telling that there is no extension. I disagree about the concern on how it would look to the university community. Last 3 coaches were bought out. Not sure the dollar amounts but in the past SJU hasn't been shy in letting go of their basketball coach.

1. Really great discussion.
2. The new President is restructuring the way SJU operates...It seems SJU BBall always has these weird situations where a tough decision needs to be made about basketball. 
3. I understand the opposing view of letting Lavin go, I just think we are setting up the next coach for failure by waiting until spring it find a replacement and that replacement then has to start recruiting...I think Jordan, CO will defiantly leave, and maybe a few other players may leave. New coaches tend to do that with programs.
4. Lavin was been working on all these undecided recruits so Spring should be the result of hard work not the beginning of recruitment for SJU.
5. When should SJU make a decision on resigning him? After recruitment (if he succeeds keep him) or right after the season and hope the AD has had an ideal for a new head coach the whole time and he can start interviewing peoe right away?

I am a Lavin supporter. I would be very happy to see him Coach at St. John's for the next 10 to 20 years.

I think SJU is in a tough position here. Unless they just can't afford to pony up the cash Lavin wants how could they get rid of him if he wins 20+ games this year. The media would be all over that story.

Also it would be hard to sell another well known coach to take over a program that just got rid of a coach that won 20 games in back to back seasons.

I think SJU is in a tough position here. Unless they just can't afford to pony up the cash Lavin wants how could they get rid of him if he wins 20+ games this year. The media would be all over that story. Also it would be hard to sell another well known coach to take over a program that just got rid of a coach that won 20 games in back to back seasons.

Add the fact that in his 5 years we went to  NIT 2x & NCAA 2x.
I know I am getting a head of myself with the 2nd NCAA.

Virginia Tech and Seth Greenberg mean anything, unfortunately, could happen......I think he had 3 26-win seasons and he was gone.  Failure to make NCAAs....and Desco wasn't even an alum.

Let's resign Coach Lavin now and end the uncertainty.

Maybe that big donor alumn who had a $ay in the last hire can help with the buyout?

if he stays , I think We will be fine next year . Firing him at end of season will kill us for 2 years atleast

if he stays , I think We will be fine next year . Firing him at end of season will kill us for 2 years atleast

Fine? How so?

I think SJU is in a tough position here. Unless they just can't afford to pony up the cash Lavin wants how could they get rid of him if he wins 20+ games this year. The media would be all over that story. Also it would be hard to sell another well known coach to take over a program that just got rid of a coach that won 20 games in back to back seasons.

I don't think anyone has any interest in getting a well known coach.   If Lavin goes, my guess is it will be someone fresh.  
And if he doesn't make the tournament, again, it won't be a very hard sell.  The papers will be calling for him to be fired.