Step up Christian Jones

Poison they go hand-in-hand.  Dave's point is that some of the bench guys can provide valuable contributions, even if their overall skill set is limited.  I agree with that notion.  But aside from Year 1 with Dunlap, I have not see Lavin and this staff show that they will get anything out of the bench. 

I had no problem recruiting Jones or Felix.  Thought both would be solid contributors by now.  Felix's athleticism is off-the-charts and he seems like a really good kid.  I was impressed by Jones when I saw him as a freshman, and think he too has some skill.  But in 3 years neither has progressed at all.  So if you aren't going to develop those 4-year guys, you better bring reinforcements in every year.  I know people were down on Jakar and Sampson, but with those guys were are at worst 2-1 right now in the Big East.  Our lack of size and depth is becoming more and more apparent each game, and I don't trust this stuff to employ small ball effectively to get this team into the tournament.  And absent that, this season is a disaster, which is a shame because I want nothing more than for these particular seniors to get in the dance.

Poison they go hand-in-hand.  Dave's point is that some of the bench guys can provide valuable contributions, even if their overall skill set is limited.  I agree with that notion.  But aside from Year 1 with Dunlap, I have not see Lavin and this staff show that they will get anything out of the bench. 

I had no problem recruiting Jones or Felix.  Thought both would be solid contributors by now.  Felix's athleticism is off-the-charts and he seems like a really good kid.  I was impressed by Jones when I saw him as a freshman, and think he too has some skill.  But in 3 years neither has progressed at all.  So if you aren't going to develop those 4-year guys, you better bring reinforcements in every year.  I know people were down on Jakar and Sampson, but with those guys were are at worst 2-1 right now in the Big East.  Our lack of size and depth is becoming more and more apparent each game, and I don't trust this stuff to employ small ball effectively to get this team into the tournament.  And absent that, this season is a disaster, which is a shame because I want nothing more than for these particular seniors to get in the dance.

This season isn't a disaster anymore than Depaul's is a success. We win vs Providence, and we're back in Lunardi's NCAA field.

Lavin isn't getting recruits because his contract is up at the end of this season, and top recruits don't want to sign up to play at a school w no coach. It's not like we have a track record like Xavier of always replacing the coach that leaves with a solid younger one. As far as Jakarr goes, I don't think anyone really believes that we are better off w out him, but rather that he left before ever really accomplishing anything. Lavin's top recruits are most famous for being top recruits and then nba players.

Still, while I see so many coaches out there that are better game coaches than Lavin, firing him in March if he makes the dance is a risk as well. Lavin ain't Jay Wright, but he's also not even close to being the worst STJ coach in the post Carnesecca era. I admit that I am torn on him.

Yes, Dave.  But do you any confidence that this staff can get the most out of whatever the bench can give us?  Because I dont. Aside from year 1, when Dunlap was here as an asst, Lavin and Co. have not displayed the ability to do that. Last year should have been the most balanced team of the Lavin era and he couldn't get the team in the tourney. This year lacks size and depth because of recruiting failures and the last three games are leading me to believe that Lavs and Co aren't going to figure out a way to play small ball effectively.

This last week is as disappointed as I've been in the Lavin era. Even last year I bought into Sheed maturing and Karr staying to form a loaded squad this year.  Over the past 2 years, I don't think that any team in the conference besides Nova and maybe Gtown has had more top 50/75 guys on their roster. And yet we continue to disappoint. I cannot y justify a scenario where Seton Hall - which was a joke a year ago at this time -- makes the tourney over St John's and Lavin in year 5. And no one else should be accepting of that.

You're right. Staff has been extremely poor in creating roles and playing guys in them.

Lavin needs another Dunlap on the sidelines. It's no coincidence that the only tourney appearance they made under Lavin was when he had Dunlap handling the x's and o's.

Clearly Lavin isn't a capable in-game coach. Top recruiter, yes. The only way he ever gets this program to the next level (winning a few games in the big dance) is if he brings in a top sideline coach to handle the in-game coaching and adjustments. I don't know what his contract says about giving up some of his salary and putting it toward a top bench coach to help.

Otherwise, I fear that the current version of this team is about as good as it'll get. A borderline NCAA tourney team.

Lavin needs another Dunlap on the sidelines. It's no coincidence that the only tourney appearance they made under Lavin was when he had Dunlap handling the x's and o's.

Clearly Lavin isn't a capable in-game coach. Top recruiter, yes. The only way he ever gets this program to the next level (winning a few games in the big dance) is if he brings in a top sideline coach to handle the in-game coaching and adjustments. I don't know what his contract says about giving up some of his salary and putting it toward a top bench coach to help.

Otherwise, I fear that the current version of this team is about as good as it'll get. A borderline NCAA tourney team.

He needed Dunlap last year and the year before. This year, they are playing well, but they are short capable bodies. Maybe Dunlap could scream at Christian Jones, but I'm not sure anyone can make him a capable BE player. When Dunlap came to STJ he helped talented but poorly coached STJ players realize their potential, but if you recall that didn't include Malik Stithe or Dele Coler, because they have no talent to work with. Hardy did. Brownlee. This team doesn't have buried on the bench like them to correct. Best hope is that Amar Alibegovic and Joey Delarosa can contribute something somewhere, but there simply isn't anything close to a legit BE player. We have a bench that is weaker than probably even Fordham. What coach will fix that?

Quote from: Johnny23 on January 08, 2015, 07:36:43 AM

Lavin needs another Dunlap on the sidelines. It's no coincidence that the only tourney appearance they made under Lavin was when he had Dunlap handling the x's and o's.

Clearly Lavin isn't a capable in-game coach. Top recruiter, yes. The only way he ever gets this program to the next level (winning a few games in the big dance) is if he brings in a top sideline coach to handle the in-game coaching and adjustments. I don't know what his contract says about giving up some of his salary and putting it toward a top bench coach to help.

Otherwise, I fear that the current version of this team is about as good as it'll get. A borderline NCAA tourney team.

He needed Dunlap last year and the year before. This year, they are playing well, but they are short capable bodies. Maybe Dunlap could scream at Christian Jones, but I'm not sure anyone can make him a capable BE player. When Dunlap came to STJ he helped talented but poorly coached STJ players realize their potential, but if you recall that didn't include Malik Stithe or Dele Coler, because they have no talent to work with. Hardy did. Brownlee. This team doesn't have buried on the bench like them to correct. Best hope is that Amar Alibegovic and Joey Delarosa can contribute something somewhere, but there simply isn't anything close to a legit BE player. We have a bench that is weaker than probably even Fordham. What coach will fix that?

Depth is a huge issue for this team, no doubt. However this isn't just about capable bodies. It's about execution when they're on the floor and having a system and defined roles.

One example is I don't think Lavin takes advantage of the 4 guard lineup when they're all on the floor at the same time. For having so many capable guards on the team they should be using much more dribble pentration and drawing fouls. Still too much standing around at the top of the key, taking outside shots early in the shotclock, or players not moving without the ball to get open.

A lot of the little fundamental things that certain clubs do. Branch has shown he's a very capable driver to the hoop. Yet I only see him do it a few times a game. I wish he was a bit more selfish but I'm sure he Harrison, Greene and Jordan are in his ear about getting them the ball. Those are the type of matchups that I want to see Lavin exploit with his lineup.

There has to be several respected assistant coaches out there who have a good reputation that Lavin could target to add to his staff. I just see very little system or structure when the team's on the court. It's been that way for his entire tenure here. This team could better utilize their athletic talent more if they had a better system on the court IMO.

Quote from: Poison on January 08, 2015, 07:49:14 AM

Quote from: Johnny23 on January 08, 2015, 07:36:43 AM

Lavin needs another Dunlap on the sidelines. It's no coincidence that the only tourney appearance they made under Lavin was when he had Dunlap handling the x's and o's.

Clearly Lavin isn't a capable in-game coach. Top recruiter, yes. The only way he ever gets this program to the next level (winning a few games in the big dance) is if he brings in a top sideline coach to handle the in-game coaching and adjustments. I don't know what his contract says about giving up some of his salary and putting it toward a top bench coach to help.

Otherwise, I fear that the current version of this team is about as good as it'll get. A borderline NCAA tourney team.

He needed Dunlap last year and the year before. This year, they are playing well, but they are short capable bodies. Maybe Dunlap could scream at Christian Jones, but I'm not sure anyone can make him a capable BE player. When Dunlap came to STJ he helped talented but poorly coached STJ players realize their potential, but if you recall that didn't include Malik Stithe or Dele Coler, because they have no talent to work with. Hardy did. Brownlee. This team doesn't have buried on the bench like them to correct. Best hope is that Amar Alibegovic and Joey Delarosa can contribute something somewhere, but there simply isn't anything close to a legit BE player. We have a bench that is weaker than probably even Fordham. What coach will fix that?

Depth is a huge issue for this team, no doubt. However this isn't just about capable bodies. It's about execution when they're on the floor and having a system and defined roles.

One example is I don't think Lavin takes advantage of the 4 guard lineup when they're all on the floor at the same time. For having so many capable guards on the team they should be using much more dribble pentration and drawing fouls. Still too much standing around at the top of the key, taking outside shots early in the shotclock, or players not moving without the ball to get open.

A lot of the little fundamental things that certain clubs do. Branch has shown he's a very capable driver to the hoop. Yet I only see him do it a few times a game. I wish he was a bit more selfish but I'm sure he Harrison, Greene and Jordan are in his ear about getting them the ball. Those are the type of matchups that I want to see Lavin exploit with his lineup.

There has to be several respected assistant coaches out there who have a good reputation that Lavin could target to add to his staff. I just see very little system or structure when the team's on the court. It's been that way for his entire tenure here. This team could better utilize their athletic talent more if they had a better system on the court IMO.

Totally agree regarding Branch, but I think Jordan drives too much and in all the wrong ways. Dunlap had two 6'7 forwards who could put it on the floor, pass, shoot the 3, and that really spread the floor well. We can play 4 guards, but Greene isn't blowing past anyone, Branch is gun shy, and Harrison is soon going to be double teamed. Defenses are already playing Branch and Pointer to drive, and daring them to shoot. That might change if we use more line ups when both of them aren't out there at the same time. For that to work, Alibegovic and Stewart have to produce.

If Lavin is getting blamed for felix and jones then he should get credit for Harrison , greene , and Sampson . Plenty of fair ways to critique this guy.

Poison - Frankly, I do not believe that the contract situation is impacting recruiting that much.  We have not landed recruits the past two years.  In 2013, I chalked it up to an issue with playing time, and we still landed Jordan in an area of need.  Last year, we struck out altogether and are paying the price this season.   I think a far greater problem that is hampering recruiting is that Lavin generated a ton of buzz year 1, had a terrific season, landed really good classes the next 2 years, and yet has not made it back to the NCAA tournament.

TONY - Everyone gives Lavin credit for the players we've landed.  He is the best recruiter we've had since Fran.  But 4 years outside of the NCAA tourney, with what he is getting paid, is not acceptable under any circumstances.  Nor is the roster imbalance and failure to develop guys who are not top 50 recruits.

Poison - Frankly, I do not believe that the contract situation is impacting recruiting that much.  We have not landed recruits the past two years.  In 2013, I chalked it up to an issue with playing time, and we still landed Jordan in an area of need.  Last year, we struck out altogether and are paying the price this season.   I think a far greater problem that is hampering recruiting is that Lavin generated a ton of buzz year 1, had a terrific season, landed really good classes the next 2 years, and yet has not made it back to the NCAA tournament.

TONY - Everyone gives Lavin credit for the players we've landed.  He is the best recruiter we've had since Fran.  But 4 years outside of the NCAA tourney, with what he is getting paid, is not acceptable under any circumstances.  Nor is the roster imbalance and failure to develop guys who are not top 50 recruits.

Good post

 Felix , Christian , Marco , and Max never should have been here. That was Lavin's fault . No coach could turn any of them into big east players.  Verdict is stil out on Amare, I wouldn't bet for him. Imagine if we got 2 decent players with those scholarships.
Unlike what most of you think . I really don't love Lavin. He isn't as bad as some ( most) make out.  He has done plenty of dumb things . Providence is a huge game. Could save the season . Can't imagine any recuit coming off a bad season with a new coach .

Felix , Christian , Marco , and Max never should have been here. That was Lavin's fault . No coach could turn any of them into big east players.  Verdict is stil out on Amare, I wouldn't bet for him. Imagine if we got 2 decent players with those scholarships.
Unlike what most of you think . I really don't love Lavin. He isn't as bad as some ( most) make out.  He has done plenty of dumb things . Providence is a huge game. Could save the season . Can't imagine any recuit coming off a bad season with a new coach .

Felix and Jones were fine recruits for depth purposes.  While both have underwhelmed this year, they are not wastes of scholarships.  Max was Jakarr's best friend, helped our APR, and was only here for 2 years counting his redshirt year.  You could do worse than Marco as your 11th man. I also think Amar was worth a shot, and the jury is still out on him. 

The single biggest issue is that the guy expected to contribute meaningfully by filling in an obvious gap in the roster, Keith Thomas, is not here.  THAT is Lavin's fault.  The Cunningham kid who went to Bradley would have fit nicely.  We also could use a heat check guy off the bench to provide some scoring punch.  That, too, is on Lavin.  Those roles do not have to be filled by Top 50 kids.  That's where recruiting locally could work really well in my opinion.

All of those I would say are true except for Marco. I really feel he could have contributed more to the team had Lavin played him more. In 2012-13, he scored in double figures a few times that year and thought he would have been a vital guy off the bench last year. Instead, Lavin never used him and used Hooper much more. From what I saw marco played better defense(kinda) was definitely more athletic and could shoot the 3 as well. Really feel he should have had Hooper's minutes. IMO he should have been used around 15 mins a game last year.

Felix and Christian were recruited by some solid schools.  Both of those guys, if developed, can play at this level.  But if you don't think so, that is even more of a reason to get on coach.  We were supposed to be done with the roster imbalance, last second reaches.

Felix and Christian were recruited by some solid schools.  Both of those guys, if developed, can play at this level.  But if you don't think so, that is even more of a reason to get on coach.  We were supposed to be done with the roster imbalance, last second reaches.

Their lack of development is on coach and it's on them. Jones and Balamou have had plenty of time to sit and watch what kind of basketball effort is needed to succeed in this league. What the hell have they been doing for the last two years? Balamou is a 6'3 guard who can't shoot, dribble well or pass. Get in the gym, and practice.

Jones is slow, soft and lost. But he can throw down a wide open dunk against a D3 team. So, there's that. He had the entire year off as a redshirt. What did he spend his time doing?

All of those I would say are true except for Marco. I really feel he could have contributed more to the team had Lavin played him more. In 2012-13, he scored in double figures a few times that year and thought he would have been a vital guy off the bench last year. Instead, Lavin never used him and used Hooper much more. From what I saw marco played better defense(kinda) was definitely more athletic and could shoot the 3 as well. Really feel he should have had Hooper's minutes. IMO he should have been used around 15 mins a game last year.

Poison - Frankly, I do not believe that the contract situation is impacting recruiting that much.  We have not landed recruits the past two years.  In 2013, I chalked it up to an issue with playing time, and we still landed Jordan in an area of need.  Last year, we struck out altogether and are paying the price this season.   I think a far greater problem that is hampering recruiting is that Lavin generated a ton of buzz year 1, had a terrific season, landed really good classes the next 2 years, and yet has not made it back to the NCAA tournament.

TONY - Everyone gives Lavin credit for the players we've landed.  He is the best recruiter we've had since Fran.  But 4 years outside of the NCAA tourney, with what he is getting paid, is not acceptable under any circumstances.  Nor is the roster imbalance and failure to develop guys who are not top 50 recruits.

His contract is impacting recruiting. He's got one 3 star kid just like Norm did. As far as how good his recruiting is, I'd say it's right on par with Jarvis.

Felix and Christian were recruited by some solid schools.  Both of those guys, if developed, can play at this level.  But if you don't think so, that is even more of a reason to get on coach.  We were supposed to be done with the roster imbalance, last second reaches.

Agree that is all on Lavin. What schools were after either of these guys? Just because they are good athletes doesn't make them division 1 big east basketball players
Edit
Christian jones had offers from ok. State and auburn.
Did felix have any offers?

Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.

Quote from: Snazzy on January 08, 2015, 11:45:05 AM

All of those I would say are true except for Marco. I really feel he could have contributed more to the team had Lavin played him more. In 2012-13, he scored in double figures a few times that year and thought he would have been a vital guy off the bench last year. Instead, Lavin never used him and used Hooper much more. From what I saw marco played better defense(kinda) was definitely more athletic and could shoot the 3 as well. Really feel he should have had Hooper's minutes. IMO he should have been used around 15 mins a game last year.

Quote from: prjohnnies on January 08, 2015, 10:50:23 AM

Poison - Frankly, I do not believe that the contract situation is impacting recruiting that much.  We have not landed recruits the past two years.  In 2013, I chalked it up to an issue with playing time, and we still landed Jordan in an area of need.  Last year, we struck out altogether and are paying the price this season.   I think a far greater problem that is hampering recruiting is that Lavin generated a ton of buzz year 1, had a terrific season, landed really good classes the next 2 years, and yet has not made it back to the NCAA tournament.

TONY - Everyone gives Lavin credit for the players we've landed.  He is the best recruiter we've had since Fran.  But 4 years outside of the NCAA tourney, with what he is getting paid, is not acceptable under any circumstances.  Nor is the roster imbalance and failure to develop guys who are not top 50 recruits.

His contract is impacting recruiting. He's got one 3 star kid just like Norm did. As far as how good his recruiting is, I'd say it's right on par with Jarvis.

Agreed the contract is impacting now.  In the past it was tough because we had these players playing so many immediate minutes ti was tough to get anyone to come and compete.  Most of these kids want to see a clear path.

Now with the whole team gone the contract comes into play.

Quote from: prjohnnies on January 08, 2015, 02:17:29 PM

Felix and Christian were recruited by some solid schools.  Both of those guys, if developed, can play at this level.  But if you don't think so, that is even more of a reason to get on coach.  We were supposed to be done with the roster imbalance, last second reaches.

Agree that is all on Lavin. What schools were after either of these guys? Just because they are good athletes doesn't make them division 1 big east basketball players
Edit
Christian jones had offers from ok. State and auburn.
Did felix have any offers?

How is it all on Lavin if Balamou and Jones haven't improved? Is it entirely the teacher's fault if the student fails?