Does Lavin deserve an extension

Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck?  That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any).  Objection to him should be based on results.  I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets.  Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court.  If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?

Exactly!  That is how I convey that particular argument, as well.

Quote from: desco80 on March 03, 2015, 12:13:49 PM

Quote from: shamsman2 on March 03, 2015, 12:07:21 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 11:50:14 AM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on March 03, 2015, 11:34:07 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 11:28:55 AM

Take a look at the big picture

And what is the big picture in your mind?

It is what it is. These kids will get  to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.

And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.

Not comparable.   They had talent returning.  Wells, Layman, Pack etc  And they had Trimble inked.   

If Sheed was as good as Trimble is this freshman year, do you think we have danced last year. I suppose he was coached up by Turgeon. When you are rebuilding it takes some luck and skill of course. Remember that 5 UMD players transferred out last year, do you think they were all stiffs. I live down here and nobody was happy with him. Prior to the Wisconsin game my friends didn't trust him at all, now they are warming up, but worry if Trimble declares will they go back to last years performance.

Few fans are rarely happy with their coach, everyone is smarter.

Trimble came in college ready. Really steady, quiet, humble kid. Also he's an old freshman too. That helps.

Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck?  That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any).  Objection to him should be based on results.  I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets.  Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court.  If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?

The bigger question.  When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?

This is a great post.

Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck?  That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any).  Objection to him should be based on results.  I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets.  Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court.  If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?

The bigger question.  When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?

I'm with you on most of this.   
I just hope the school doesn't go back to paying someone 300k per year. 
The only argument I think Lavin's salary is relevant to is when we discuss him vs. Norm.    Because Norm didn't get the resources (salaries for his staff, travel budget etc) that Lavin has gotten.
Other than that, how much Lavin's salary is doesn't matter.   Unless the school has to buy him out, which obviously becomes an issue.

But in terms of criticizing the coach's performance, I agree.   His salary shouldn't be a major factor.

And simplyred, i don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Lavin will be retained.   But if he is, I will continue to express my displeasure.  But much less frequently if he's extended long term. 

Quote from: shamsman2 on March 03, 2015, 01:12:14 PM

Quote from: desco80 on March 03, 2015, 12:13:49 PM

Quote from: shamsman2 on March 03, 2015, 12:07:21 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 11:50:14 AM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on March 03, 2015, 11:34:07 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 11:28:55 AM

Take a look at the big picture

And what is the big picture in your mind?

It is what it is. These kids will get  to the NCAA despite Lavins shenanigans. Good for them. There will be plenty of time in the offseason to pick the Lavin situation apart.

And everyone will come to their same conclusions! It's like the Republicans with Obama, he hasn't made a correct decision since he was elected and never will. What will happen will happen with no input from this Board. Funny this is the same conversation Terp fans were having about Turgeon last year, look at the big picture, which wasn't too good. Today different story.

Not comparable.   They had talent returning.  Wells, Layman, Pack etc  And they had Trimble inked.   

If Sheed was as good as Trimble is this freshman year, do you think we have danced last year. I suppose he was coached up by Turgeon. When you are rebuilding it takes some luck and skill of course. Remember that 5 UMD players transferred out last year, do you think they were all stiffs. I live down here and nobody was happy with him. Prior to the Wisconsin game my friends didn't trust him at all, now they are warming up, but worry if Trimble declares will they go back to last years performance.

Few fans are rarely happy with their coach, everyone is smarter.

Trimble came in college ready. Really steady, quiet, humble kid. Also he's an old freshman too. That helps.

I agree, really mature kid, makes a difference especially at the point guard position.

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 03, 2015, 12:31:08 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 12:29:26 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 03, 2015, 12:25:37 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 12:19:26 PM

What are the reasons he deserves an extension?

3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.

From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?

Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either.  To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish.  If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back.  I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.

He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.

when has SJU ever been STACKED..?

Quote from: simplyred on March 03, 2015, 01:09:10 PM

Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck?  That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any).  Objection to him should be based on results.  I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets.  Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court.  If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?

The bigger question.  When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?

I'm with you on most of this.   
I just hope the school doesn't go back to paying someone 300k per year. 
The only argument I think Lavin's salary is relevant to is when we discuss him vs. Norm.    Because Norm didn't get the resources (salaries for his staff, travel budget etc) that Lavin has gotten.
Other than that, how much Lavin's salary is doesn't matter.   Unless the school has to buy him out, which obviously becomes an issue.

But in terms of criticizing the coach's performance, I agree.   His salary shouldn't be a major factor.

And simplyred, i don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Lavin will be retained.   But if he is, I will continue to express my displeasure.  But much less frequently if he's extended long term. 

Hey Desco, like the guys who have been guaranteeing that he is gone (without any basis), I take the opposite position that he is guaranteed to be extended.  Just as baseless (other than the teams success this year).  I said weeks ago that we would make the dance and Lavin will be extended.  I certainly have no reason to back off now.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 12:33:58 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 03, 2015, 12:31:08 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 12:29:26 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 03, 2015, 12:25:37 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 03, 2015, 12:19:26 PM

What are the reasons he deserves an extension?

3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.

From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?

Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either.  To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish.  If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back.  I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.

He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.

when has SJU ever been STACKED..?

When has SJU ever had a GM?

Quote from: desco80 on March 03, 2015, 01:23:17 PM

Quote from: simplyred on March 03, 2015, 01:09:10 PM

Why is everyone so concerned with Lavin's paycheck?  That's between him, the school and the people woh fund his salary (if any).  Objection to him should be based on results.  I'm sick of hearing from people (not necessarily you, Baldi) who go to 2 games a year complaining about his salary as if it is coming out of their pockets.  Stick to the argument that he hasn't produced on the court.  If we bring in a coach a 300k, will the same fans be satisfied with 10 wins a year?

The bigger question.  When Lavin is extended, will you posters keep this argument going for the next four years, or can we go back to talking basketball?

I'm with you on most of this.   
I just hope the school doesn't go back to paying someone 300k per year. 
The only argument I think Lavin's salary is relevant to is when we discuss him vs. Norm.    Because Norm didn't get the resources (salaries for his staff, travel budget etc) that Lavin has gotten.
Other than that, how much Lavin's salary is doesn't matter.   Unless the school has to buy him out, which obviously becomes an issue.

But in terms of criticizing the coach's performance, I agree.   His salary shouldn't be a major factor.

And simplyred, i don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Lavin will be retained.   But if he is, I will continue to express my displeasure.  But much less frequently if he's extended long term. 

Hey Desco, like the guys who have been guaranteeing that he is gone (without any basis), I take the opposite position that he is guaranteed to be extended.  Just as baseless (other than the teams success this year).  I said weeks ago that we would make the dance and Lavin will be extended.  I certainly have no reason to back off now.

Fair enough SR. 

The funny part is that if everyone hated Lavin, Baldi would be saying he is a god and that we don't deserve him.

Baldi is a God and we don't deserve him.

Baldi is a God and we don't deserve him.

Took you awhile..

The funny part is that if everyone hated Lavin, Baldi would be saying he is a god and that we don't deserve him.

Fwiw, I thought Lavin was a great hire at the time

I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.

But how does he dress?

But how does he dress?

In the dark

I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.

YOU can't believe CO or RJ won't come back.   But everyone else knows that's a possibility.   
And yes, to some degree it is his fault if they don't return.    He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here. 

It's definitely because of how he dresses.

Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history.  And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.

Desco, please compare Coach Lavin's first five years at St. John's  to Coach K's first five year at Duke.   Then you can think about the following:

Is the program getting better?  Is the product getting better and fun to watch?  Are the players getting better? 

Are we in the hunt  for elite recruiting prospects?  Have we expanded our recruiting nationally and internationally?  Is the glass one quarter empty or three quarters full?  Have we lost players (too soon) to the NBA?

What is it you really want and is it reasonable?  Are our facilities really comparable to Kentucky, Duke , Notre Dame and the government supported institutions (Fla., NC, NC State, Ohio State, Mich., Michigan State, Ariz.  etc.)?

Do some people just like to whine and complain or troll and trouble make?

Is the program perfect? No.  Do you expect it to be perfect? Is Coach Lavin perfect? No (I hate the overuse of timeouts after made baskets for example....and sometimes the p.r. mumble jumble.)   

Has Coach Lavin built a professional team of assistants?  Do you come close to meeting the same standards you expect from Coach Lavin?

Should we believe you or our own eyes?

If you are too busy enjoying the season (which I certainly am), you can simply skip this discussion and save it for when we lose (which will will certainly do at some point) and will make whining and complaining more timely.

Is St. John's basketball back on the map?

What map are you asking about? The national map? Not yet. We're not ranked. We can be for this season at least, but in year 5, to be in a position where we have no idea who will be in the team next season is troubling. What would we be buying into next year?

Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?