How to revive New York area’s struggling college hoops scene

Yahoo sports -
After leaving an ESPN TV gig, Lavin has been characterized as a low-motor guy in a job that demands a high-motor rebuilder. If the Jonnies don’t earn an NCAA bid next month, it’s hard to see Lavin being retained.

If you read the entire article it suggests bringing guys with local ties including the Hurley brothers or Cluess who obviously has St. John's ties. Characterizing Lavin as "low motor" I honestly can't speak to whether that is justified or not. These guys are supposedly in the know and I have no way of knowing have Lavin conducts himself on a daily basis but not a good thing for sure to be described that way. His routine is beginning to tire everyone out it seems.

@NYPost_Brazille: @YahooForde lowers the boom on Steve Lavin, calling him "low motor guy," says #sjubb needs change http://t.co/vJ129MKxc7

ouch those are strong words but I don't disagree the points made in the article. 

And it starts....

Billy the kid! Go get him

i hate that reporters and many on this board continue to believe that we must live and die with a local coach who can keep local talent.  this isn't the 80s.  kids want to go away. we've seen it time and time again.   i don't know lavin's relationships with local programs, but i do commend him for making us relevant and getting kids from across the country. 

we need a coach; a gym rat.  a guy like dunlap. someone who isn't interested in BS.  just ball. someone that can install a system. someone that can develop talent. 

i can't wait for selection Sunday so all this crap can go away.  At least for a while.

Who is Pat Forde close with....

I think it is ludicrous and outdated to suggest that our program should live and die by NYC recruits.  Yes, I want to recruit good players from NY/NJ, but as many have stated, the reality is that many of those with similar (or better) programs chasing them want to get away from the area.  We landed Harkless, Obekpa, Felix and ADR.  Missed on Briscoe, Kyle, Lawrence, and Whitehead, but not because of a lack of pursuit.  Maybe we lost McCullough because Lavin and Co. got outworked - or maybe he went to Syracuse, following the long line of NYC/NJ kids who have gone that route.    As long as we are bringing in quality players, I don't care where they are from.  I don't think anyone minds all of the good players we've brought in from the Midwest or Southeast.  That is something prior coaches couldn't do, and I give Lavin all the credit in the world for getting that done.  If I'm choosing between a local recruit and one from another state of equal skill, sure I'd like to have my fair share of NY/NJ players, because there is something to be said for keeping those in your backyard home.  But if we miss on a NY/NJ kid and get an equal caliber player from Texas, Ohio, Michigan, Louisiana, etc -- I have no issue with that.  Too long we ignored the fact that while NY/NJ kids may want to get away from the area for college, plenty of top players view NY and MSG as a destination. 

The last two recruiting cycles were not a bust because we missed on NY kids.  It was because we missed on players who could contribute meaningful minutes to this year's squad.  Had we pulled in a couple of good players from outside the area, no one would care and the lack of depth this year wouldn't be an issue.

The problem with the Lavin era has been defining player roles, X's and O's and, to some extent, player development (which goes hand in hand with defining roles).  Five of our best 6 players were ranked between 20 and 60 by most publications, and Phil was a borderline top 100 kid.  The issue is that the cover looks fairly bare next year because of the last two cycles.

Moose - I, for one, don't know.  The answer ..

Like I said weeks ago, I think the Big East is putting the pressure on St Johns..

 St. John's , as a basketball program, needs to get out of the stone age..  The game and the way teams approach it has changed..    Despite what Charles Barkley says, analytics play a huge role in basketball today...more so at the pro level due to the fact that players stick around a team longer..

St. John's basketball players have no roles..   Like the post above states, we need to recruit players that can help fill certain roles well...  Not just hope to throw a bunch of 4/5 star kids together and hope it meshes...as we have seen....A) we don't get enough of those recruits, and B) we end up missing out on 2 or 3 star kids that can be great contributors for 4 years...

Anyone know if the program has even attempted to look into this? 

St. John's , as a basketball program, needs to get out of the stone age..  The game and the way teams approach it has changed..    Despite what Charles Barkley says, analytics play a huge role in basketball today...more so at the pro level due to the fact that players stick around a team longer..

St. John's basketball players have no roles..   Like the post above states, we need to recruit players that can help fill certain roles well...  Not just hope to throw a bunch of 4/5 star kids together and hope it meshes...as we have seen....A) we don't get enough of those recruits, and B) we end up missing out on 2 or 3 star kids that can be great contributors for 4 years...

Anyone know if the program has even attempted to look into this? 

We didn't have a 4/5 star kid in the 2014 recruiting cycle.

Quote from: boo3 on February 19, 2015, 10:37:06 PM

St. John's , as a basketball program, needs to get out of the stone age..  The game and the way teams approach it has changed..    Despite what Charles Barkley says, analytics play a huge role in basketball today...more so at the pro level due to the fact that players stick around a team longer..

St. John's basketball players have no roles..   Like the post above states, we need to recruit players that can help fill certain roles well...  Not just hope to throw a bunch of 4/5 star kids together and hope it meshes...as we have seen....A) we don't get enough of those recruits, and B) we end up missing out on 2 or 3 star kids that can be great contributors for 4 years...

Anyone know if the program has even attempted to look into this? 

We didn't have a 4/5 star kid in the 2014 recruiting cycle.

  yeah, we had nobody...but that isn't the point..

I root for Lavin to do well. This program needs stability and if he can get to tourney he should stay.   I really believe his 15 class will be good. Can be Great if he can recruit obepka and Jordan to stay. 2 nba level players as upperclassmen. Something he didn't have a chance to do when he got his first big class.  However should he not get to tourney this year, all bets should be off and we bring someone else in.

If memory serves me correct, ford wrote an article a few years ago ripping calipari for his one and done Moto after he failed to get to tournament.  Cal always brings in top talent but his two best teams had upperclassmen who helped win.   I know ford is a huge Louisville guy, but still a good assessment of local teams.

I root for Lavin to do well. This program needs stability and if he can get to tourney he should stay.   I really believe his 15 class will be good. Can be Great if he can recruit obepka and Jordan to stay. 2 nba level players as upperclassmen. Something he didn't have a chance to do when he got his first big class.  However should he not get to tourney this year, all bets should be off and we bring someone else in.

If memory serves me correct, ford wrote an article a few years ago ripping calipari for his one and done Moto after he failed to get to tournament.  Cal always brings in top talent but his two best teams had upperclassmen who helped win.   I know ford is a huge Louisville guy, but still a good assessment of local teams.

I disagree with Obekpa and Jordan being NBa level players

 

Quote from: rdstr25 on February 19, 2015, 10:50:53 PM

I root for Lavin to do well. This program needs stability and if he can get to tourney he should stay.   I really believe his 15 class will be good. Can be Great if he can recruit obepka and Jordan to stay. 2 nba level players as upperclassmen. Something he didn't have a chance to do when he got his first big class.  However should he not get to tourney this year, all bets should be off and we bring someone else in.

If memory serves me correct, ford wrote an article a few years ago ripping calipari for his one and done Moto after he failed to get to tournament.  Cal always brings in top talent but his two best teams had upperclassmen who helped win.   I know ford is a huge Louisville guy, but still a good assessment of local teams.

I disagree with Obekpa and Jordan being NBa level players

 Agree with Baldi, but if we get those two back along with Sampson, Doughty, hopefully Lovett, that's a decent start...   Diallo would be the game changer in the equation.  Suddenly 2015-16 doesn't seem as bleak as many had been painting.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on February 19, 2015, 10:55:18 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on February 19, 2015, 10:50:53 PM

I root for Lavin to do well. This program needs stability and if he can get to tourney he should stay.   I really believe his 15 class will be good. Can be Great if he can recruit obepka and Jordan to stay. 2 nba level players as upperclassmen. Something he didn't have a chance to do when he got his first big class.  However should he not get to tourney this year, all bets should be off and we bring someone else in.

If memory serves me correct, ford wrote an article a few years ago ripping calipari for his one and done Moto after he failed to get to tournament.  Cal always brings in top talent but his two best teams had upperclassmen who helped win.   I know ford is a huge Louisville guy, but still a good assessment of local teams.

I disagree with Obekpa and Jordan being NBa level players

 Agree with Baldi, but if we get those two back along with Sampson, Doughty, hopefully Lovett, that's a decent start...   Diallo would be the game changer in the equation.  Suddenly 2015-16 doesn't seem as bleak as many had been painting.

Agreed. But we need alternatives to Diallo and Lovett. Too many question marks, everywhere

Imo, Jordan and obepka will get opportunities in nba. Both physically gifted to take a flier on.  Don't know how they will fare, but sometimes kids become better outside of college with everyday coaching and more time dedicated to game.