Sima v. Obekpa

As others have noted, Obekpa changed the way opposing teams played against us. That's not going to show up in the box score.

Actually it might show up in the box score. In Obekpa's three years SJU was 2-1 (.66) in games where Obekpa DNP. In games that he played 20 minutes or fewer SJU was 5-1 (2013), 9-6 (2014) and 3-2 (2015). For a grand total of 19-10 (also .66) in games where Obekpa played < 20 minutes. As opposed to 59-41 (.59) over all and 40-31 (.56) in games where he played > 20 minutes.

So in whose favor exactly did he change the way opposing teams played?

Fwiw, a guy who evaluates NBA potential & worked with Nets previously I believe, has Sima #3 most promising BE player for NBA behind Dunn &  Ellenson. I respect that opinion over board posters like myself. This evaluator saw Sima play a number of times in Europe, not just pulling "stuff" out of the sky.

I sense Sima is going to be somewhat similar to Roy Hibbert when he was at Georgetown (although, Sima may already be slightly ahead of Hibbert at the same stage).  You can see the potential early on, and there will be games where you're wow'ed by him and others where he'll struggle a bit.  He'll continue to get better, and will be a legit NBA prospect by his junior season. 

Quote from: paultzman on November 25, 2015, 10:19:43 AM

Fwiw, a guy who evaluates NBA potential & worked with Nets previously I believe, has Sima #3 most promising BE player for NBA behind Dunn &  Ellenson. I respect that opinion over board posters like myself. This evaluator saw Sima play a number of times in Europe, not just pulling "stuff" out of the sky.

I sense Sima is going to be somewhat similar to Roy Hibbert when he was at Georgetown (although, Sima may already be slightly ahead of Hibbert at the same stage).  You can see the potential early on, and there will be games where you're wow'ed by him and others where he'll struggle a bit.  He'll continue to get better, and will be a legit NBA prospect by his junior season. 

Agree Dink

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 25, 2015, 10:32:17 AM

As others have noted, Obekpa changed the way opposing teams played against us. That's not going to show up in the box score.

Actually it might show up in the box score. In Obekpa's three years SJU was 2-1 (.66) in games where Obekpa DNP. In games that he played 20 minutes or fewer SJU was 5-1 (2013), 9-6 (2014) and 3-2 (2015). For a grand total of 19-10 (also .66) in games where Obekpa played < 20 minutes. As opposed to 59-41 (.59) over all and 40-31 (.56) in games where he played > 20 minutes.

So in whose favor exactly did he change the way opposing teams played?

Let's say that Obekpa had earned the attention of opposing players after his inaugural debut where he seemed to block everything that Detroit threw up in the second half. And let's say that because he had such a dominant debut, teams like Murray State decided to drive and dish to 3 point shooters who were undoubtedly left unguarded by Phil Greene, D'Angelo Harrison, Margo Bourgault and whoever else we had on the perimeter.

It wasn't until last season that we were able to turn the d up all around and defend the 3 ball.

We know he took too many chances in trying to block shots, and that he was called for goaltending pretty often, but we'd need some advanced statistics to really understand how he impacted the entire game. I recall watching a lot of games Obekpa's freshman year where it really seemed like everyone played lazy defense, and if their man got by them, it was no problem because Obekpa would take care of it.

In fairness to Sima, he is smart player it appears & realizes he has to stay out of foul trouble with no one behind him. Thus, In my opinion, he tends to avoid contact in the post. It is fair, however, to note he has a learning curve in terms of getting good position, fronting the post, etc. All in all this kid, unlike Obekpa, has no baggage, is skilled, maintains a positive attitude & responds to coaching. Give me him anytime.

Sima has a great attitude, and that is refreshing to see. That much no one can debate.

Quote from: Foad on November 25, 2015, 11:00:42 AM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 25, 2015, 10:32:17 AM

As others have noted, Obekpa changed the way opposing teams played against us. That's not going to show up in the box score.

Actually it might show up in the box score. In Obekpa's three years SJU was 2-1 (.66) in games where Obekpa DNP. In games that he played 20 minutes or fewer SJU was 5-1 (2013), 9-6 (2014) and 3-2 (2015). For a grand total of 19-10 (also .66) in games where Obekpa played < 20 minutes. As opposed to 59-41 (.59) over all and 40-31 (.56) in games where he played > 20 minutes.

So in whose favor exactly did he change the way opposing teams played?

Let's say that Obekpa had earned the attention of opposing players after his inaugural debut where he seemed to block everything that Detroit threw up in the second half. And let's say that because he had such a dominant debut, teams like Murray State decided to drive and dish to 3 point shooters who were undoubtedly left unguarded by Phil Greene, D'Angelo Harrison, Margo Bourgault and whoever else we had on the perimeter.

It wasn't until last season that we were able to turn the d up all around and defend the 3 ball.

We know he took too many chances in trying to block shots, and that he was called for goaltending pretty often, but we'd need some advanced statistics to really understand how he impacted the entire game. I recall watching a lot of games Obekpa's freshman year where it really seemed like everyone played lazy defense, and if their man got by them, it was no problem because Obekpa would take care of it.

For whatever reason, SJU won games at a higher percentage when Obekpa played less than they did when he played more. I suppose it could be a coincidence. Or it could be eg that when he played he committed a lot of fouls, which resulted in a lot of points for the bad guys. Last year eg in January he committed 30 fouls in 7 games, 4.3 per game. MOst of those were probably in the act near the rim and likely contributed to SJU going into the bonus. He had 20 blocks over the same period and averaged 6 pts a game. He averaged about 30 minutes a game and SJU was 2 and 5. Like I said, could be coincidence. And yes, there are a lot of variables. And yes, CO was an amazing shot blocker. But I thought you were what your record said you were?

PS In his first 4 college games Obekpa had 17 blocks. Sima had 14.

with Obekpa SJU had a 4 man offense and he was a mediocre rebounder because of his obsession with blocked shots.  Enough said

Remember when they used to have those King Kong vs Godzilla and Godzilla vs Mothra movies on Thanksgiving day? That is what this thread title reminded me of

This team needs to rely on Sima for a lot more than Lavin's team had to rely on Obekpa. I think Sima is having a start that's as good anything we could have hoped for, but there is one difference between the two centers that is glaring IMO, and it won't show up in the box score.

In the last two games we saw guards, forwards and centers attack the basket at will. Again, Sima is off to a very good start overall, but no one is changing their game plan because he's starting at center for us. With Obekpa, yes, we know he had flaws, but he changed the opposing team's approach to their offense in just about every game as a freshman.

You could not be more wrong about Obekpa.  It was astounding how little he changed the other team's strategy to take it at him his first two years considering all the blocks he had.  They just kept coming.  I commented on it many times as did countless others.  Their plan was to go at him all game and not get deterred by his blocks because he would move out of the way and let you by to go for the block.  If he missed, which he often did, it was an easy layup.

He was also good for a foul every few minutes and a pair of goaltending violations a game followed by a huge smile with arms extended in disbelief and a head shake. Every game.

This is just a random game from last year, but Obekpa is owned in nearly every play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcwNbl3IATo

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2015, 11:23:50 PM

This team needs to rely on Sima for a lot more than Lavin's team had to rely on Obekpa. I think Sima is having a start that's as good anything we could have hoped for, but there is one difference between the two centers that is glaring IMO, and it won't show up in the box score.

In the last two games we saw guards, forwards and centers attack the basket at will. Again, Sima is off to a very good start overall, but no one is changing their game plan because he's starting at center for us. With Obekpa, yes, we know he had flaws, but he changed the opposing team's approach to their offense in just about every game as a freshman.

You could not be more wrong about Obekpa.  It was astounding how little he changed the other team's strategy to take it at him his first two years considering all the blocks he had.  They just kept coming.  I commented on it many times as did countless others.  Their plan was to go at him all game and not get deterred by his blocks because he would move out of the way and let you by to go for the block.  If he missed, which he often did, it was an easy layup.

He was also good for a foul every few minutes and a pair of goaltending violations a game followed by a huge smile with arms extended in disbelief and a head shake. Every game.

I don't think this is correct. My memory recalls guards settling for mid range shots or sheepishly flinging the ball towards the rim after a couple of their shots being swatted. Until the weed thing, most people on this board loved him. Many claimed he was the reason we didn't beat SDSU, a game we lost by double digits. Amazing how smoking weed lessens your previous accomplishments as a basketball player.

His offense was bad, his rebounding wasn't great, his defense while being posted up wasn't spectacular, but he had the best shot blocking instincts I've ever seen.

watch some BIll Russell tapes for shotblocking, and he got 20+ bounds a game

I'm not sure how people are trying to pretend Obekpa didn't affect opposing teams' games.  Yes, he was horrible offensively.  Yes, he should have been a better rebounder.  Yes, he was a schmuck.  But on the defensive side, few players have had more of an impact on the college game in recent years.  A few times every game players would miss layups because they THOUGHT he was going to be there.  I think when all is said and done, Sima will be the better player (let's hope, anyway), but as a pure shot blocker, few have been as dominant as Obekpa, and few have had as much of an impact defensively.

Sima is currently number 5 in the country at blocked shots: 3.5 per game.

Quote from: paultzman on November 25, 2015, 10:39:17 AM

In fairness to Sima, he is smart player it appears & realizes he has to stay out of foul trouble with no one behind him. Thus, In my opinion, he tends to avoid contact in the post. It is fair, however, to note he has a learning curve in terms of getting good position, fronting the post, etc. All in all this kid, unlike Obekpa, has no baggage, is skilled, maintains a positive attitude & responds to coaching. Give me him anytime.

Sima has a great attitude, and that is refreshing to see. That much no one can debate.

Obekpa was all about Thug life, glad he's gone

In fairness to Sima, he is smart player it appears & realizes he has to stay out of foul trouble with no one behind him. Thus, In my opinion, he tends to avoid contact in the post. It is fair, however, to note he has a learning curve in terms of getting good position, fronting the post, etc. All in all this kid, unlike Obekpa, has no baggage, is skilled, maintains a positive attitude & responds to coaching. Give me him anytime.

biggest pleasant surprise of the team for me is Sima. I thought Mussini was going to be good just based on what we had been hearing about him for so long but never did I think Sima would show this type of promise this early.

Going to be real fun watching him develop

Obekpa was an excellent shot blocker, but I'll take Sima every day and twice on Sunday.  Sima is a vastly better offensive player and is already a better rebounder than Obekpa was as a freshman.  Sima also blocks shots pretty well when he goes at them but doesn't need it to be effective.  Much better overall player. 

I think Simas offense as a frosh is better than CO as a jr.

I think Simas offense as a frosh is better than CO as a jr.

agree. I'm not sure there is any aspect of the game that Obekpa was better than Sima other than smoking weed playing xbox

Sima's  better and it's not even close.  Obekpa killed our offense, especially his first two years.  When he was lucky enough to even catch the ball, it just stuck there without him even looking at the basket.

As far as his defense goes, he only blocked shots of players he wasn't guarding. He should have stayed home more because opponents learned to just drive at him, and dish to the player he was supposed to be guarding.  He was terrible at guarding his own man in the post.  Sima is good at this, and he gets a lot of his blocks on his own man.  Obekpa was a decent rebounder but Sima is a better rebounder.  Sima is a good passer and Obekpa was horrendous passing the ball.  There is no doubt about it, Sima is much better overall.