3 Star Players

Not enough focus on 3 star players IMO.  They are what build and hold programs together

http://sports.yahoo.com/bwi/basketball/recruiting/player-Abdel-Nader-108022

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/57136/abdel-nader

Should throw Buddy Heild and Isaiah Cousins in there.

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

Tariq Owens...

Damn I keep calling him Tariq Carey. Been screwing this up for years. I'll get it right sooner or later.

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

I'd rather use it on a transfer, juco, or 5th year guy. No chance Rawle comes here but I have no issue sticking it out because they are in a position to. There are other eggs in the basket.

Staff needs to find kids that have potential and have a work ethic that lead to improvement. Tyrone Grant wasn't recruited by anyone. By year 3, he was a BE starter. By year 4 he was one of the best bigs in the country. It also helps to recruit local kids who were well coached for 4 years. Lavin had the right idea w Delarosa. It didn't work out but that is this type of situation that makes sense for St.John's.

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2016, 12:08:20 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

I'd rather use it on a transfer, juco, or 5th year guy. No chance Rawle comes here but I have no issue sticking it out because they are in a position to. There are other eggs in the basket.

Seems like there are so many differing views on Rawle.  SJU79 is giving us hope and saying there's a decent chance we land Rawle, and you're saying we have no shot. Someone is being fed wrong information. Wonder who is right.

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:12:24 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2016, 12:08:20 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

I'd rather use it on a transfer, juco, or 5th year guy. No chance Rawle comes here but I have no issue sticking it out because they are in a position to. There are other eggs in the basket.

Seems like there are so many differing views on Rawle.  SJU79 is giving us hope and saying there's a decent chance we land Rawle, and you're saying we have no shot. Someone is being fed wrong information. Wonder who is right.

Don't you think that neither right? Who knows what this kid will do? He probably doesn't even know.

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:12:24 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2016, 12:08:20 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

I'd rather use it on a transfer, juco, or 5th year guy. No chance Rawle comes here but I have no issue sticking it out because they are in a position to. There are other eggs in the basket.

Seems like there are so many differing views on Rawle.  SJU79 is giving us hope and saying there's a decent chance we land Rawle, and you're saying we have no shot. Someone is being fed wrong information. Wonder who is right.

I find it hard to believe Slice, Matt and Mullin would still be spending time recruiting him if they felt there was no chance of him coming here. One of the main things in recruiting is pursuing only guys you have a chance with because you can only be one place at a time. If the staff felt as Dave did they wouldn't continue to chase this kid

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:12:24 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2016, 12:08:20 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

I'd rather use it on a transfer, juco, or 5th year guy. No chance Rawle comes here but I have no issue sticking it out because they are in a position to. There are other eggs in the basket.

Seems like there are so many differing views on Rawle.  SJU79 is giving us hope and saying there's a decent chance we land Rawle, and you're saying we have no shot. Someone is being fed wrong information. Wonder who is right.

Sharing my personal feelings and knowledge of Rawle. Not being fed or asking anyone on this. Why wouldn't the staff go after him? He's very good and one of best uncommitted. If they strikeout they are still sitting great in '16.

CM with a collection of ***. no  way!

Quote from: thetruth8734 on January 19, 2016, 01:09:52 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:12:24 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2016, 12:08:20 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

I'd rather use it on a transfer, juco, or 5th year guy. No chance Rawle comes here but I have no issue sticking it out because they are in a position to. There are other eggs in the basket.

Seems like there are so many differing views on Rawle.  SJU79 is giving us hope and saying there's a decent chance we land Rawle, and you're saying we have no shot. Someone is being fed wrong information. Wonder who is right.

I find it hard to believe Slice, Matt and Mullin would still be spending time recruiting him if they felt there was no chance of him coming here. One of the main things in recruiting is pursuing only guys you have a chance with because you can only be one place at a time. If the staff felt as Dave did they wouldn't continue to chase this kid

You can chase dreams when you have gold in the bank

Quote from: thetruth8734 on January 19, 2016, 01:09:52 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:12:24 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2016, 12:08:20 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 19, 2016, 12:02:21 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 18, 2016, 11:50:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

Nader was 6'6 180lbs in high school in the suburbs of Illinois. His physicality caught up to his skill in college and he transferred up to a system that fit him. Not sure he'd work at many schools outside of Iowa State. Not many high major schools are taking a flier on a skinny tween forward.

You can't fill your roster with these type of guys and expect to win. Stash a guy here or there. I think Carey, Williams, Amar, and Ellison are all guys who would be considered '3 stars'

Who is Carey?

I like Amar but he's not 3 star player.

Point is most of the guys we are after are either question marks to get on campus or to last 4 years. Yes I'm talking Rawle here.  Problem is we don't have history of developing these 3 stars really. If some come like Felix they never see the light of day until it's too late.  I'd rather use the last ship next year on under radar guy who is willing to take a seat for a year. Not a guy with his eyes on next level who will be gone and then were still reaching for the stars. Iowa States whole team seems to be 3 star kids

I'd rather use it on a transfer, juco, or 5th year guy. No chance Rawle comes here but I have no issue sticking it out because they are in a position to. There are other eggs in the basket.

Seems like there are so many differing views on Rawle.  SJU79 is giving us hope and saying there's a decent chance we land Rawle, and you're saying we have no shot. Someone is being fed wrong information. Wonder who is right.

Don't you think that neither right? Who knows what this kid will do? He probably doesn't even know.

Obviously one will end up being right and one wrong. Both have provided reputable information/opinions in the past, and I have a great deal of respect for both.  That's why I'm surprised that they have such opposing views on Rawle's recruitment. I'm sure both have good reason to believe what they've been saying too.

 I have no inside info and I'm basically going by what "people in the know" say so I still don't know whether or not to be hopeful or believe Dave's house money theory. That being said I'm sure Rawle probably has an idea of where he may go, but I'm sure he hasn't definitively made up his mind yet. But no offense I sure hope Dave is wrong on this one lol.

Based on the staff's recruiting prowness to date, next year is a bridge year for the program between awful and a tournament year consistently.  Rawle will help immensely, even if he is a one year player.  He would change a probable marginally competitive team into a potential tournament team.  Even if he is one and done his contribution to the program  would be meaningful. 

Quote from: Dave on January 18, 2016, 11:45:17 PM

Nader transferred. Hield was very herald out of high school definitely consensus top 100.

I agree some guys can develop but they need the physical tools to do so at certain levels. Felix was a 3 star guy (maybe even 2) but he could jump through the roof and had potential. It's a shame he didn't get his redshirt year because Lav wanted to teach a lesson or something and played him randomly. He would have been really good by next year.

Nader was 3 star that went to NIU. Why does it matter he transferred?  You're right Felix was. So was everyone's favorite Phil Greene. My point is we all focus on big fish. When the others are likely the best way to build a sustaining program.

How many consensus top 100 players are there? Anyone know?

Foad, how tall is a six foot seven player? Six-three or six-two?

The goal for every program other then those in top 5-10 range is too build a program that win consistently. A program that reloads every year instead of rebuilds every couple years like we have been doing. Having glue guys in the program is essential to this happening. These guys pass on the traditions of the program to the next generation and provide stability for the coaches and younger players. Do these guys have to be 3 star players? I would say no but a lot of them are because they tend to stay around for 4 years and slowly earn more playing time and improve their games. Take Xavier this year, they have some great glue guys who were 3 start prospects in James Farr and JP Macura. These guys might not be the best players on the team but they are glue guys and without them the team wouldn't be a top 5 team. I think Ellison and Yakwe can be glue guys for us. Four years from now they could very important cogs not only on the court but off the court where they are showing the next class of johnnies how to play winning basketball (which hopefully comes over the next couple seasons).