What We Learned In Atlantis

We'll see. Looking fwd to some home games.

We won't be able to take anything away from games against Delaware St, Tulane, Cal St Northridge, Fordham or LIU. What guys do in those games is essentially meaningless unless of course we lose one of them at which point this board will really be a mess. Let's see how they perform against teams like Penn St (a Big 10 team even if they aren't that good), Syracuse and Butler

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2016, 11:08:43 PM

We'll see. Looking fwd to some home games.

We won't be able to take anything away from games against Delaware St, Tulane, Cal St Northridge, Fordham or LIU. What guys do in those games is essentially meaningless unless of course we lose one of them at which point this board will really be a mess. Let's see how they perform against teams like Penn St (a Big 10 team even if they aren't that good), Syracuse and Butler

Penn State will be the team's third time at a B10 team, hopefully they win that one. That would be another  O fer is this young season.

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2016, 11:08:43 PM

We'll see. Looking fwd to some home games.

We won't be able to take anything away from games against Delaware St, Tulane, Cal St Northridge, Fordham or LIU. What guys do in those games is essentially meaningless unless of course we lose one of them at which point this board will really be a mess. Let's see how they perform against teams like Penn St (a Big 10 team even if they aren't that good), Syracuse and Butler

We're a 1 and 17 team on a 4 game losing streak.  These games you've mentioned aren't gimmes for us.

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2016, 11:08:43 PM

We'll see. Looking fwd to some home games.

We won't be able to take anything away from games against Delaware St, Tulane, Cal St Northridge, Fordham or LIU. What guys do in those games is essentially meaningless unless of course we lose one of them at which point this board will really be a mess. Let's see how they perform against teams like Penn St (a Big 10 team even if they aren't that good), Syracuse and Butler

I forgot these games don't count.

The problem I see with this team is we've got a bunch of good players (hopefully) that need a month or two to get going, but we don't have any real vets to bridge that gap.

I think Sima has played solid...his shots just aren't going down. Ahmed's future is in and near the paint and he needs another 6-12 games to understand his role and his limitations. RF will be the answer at the four before the season is over IMO, but the kid has to get used to the speed of the game. It would be easier if he was a pure PF.  Even Ellison, who I can't stand right now, should be much better in a few weeks.

.500 would be a very solid accomplishment for this group.

Quote from: goredmen on November 28, 2016, 11:23:14 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2016, 11:08:43 PM

We'll see. Looking fwd to some home games.

We won't be able to take anything away from games against Delaware St, Tulane, Cal St Northridge, Fordham or LIU. What guys do in those games is essentially meaningless unless of course we lose one of them at which point this board will really be a mess. Let's see how they perform against teams like Penn St (a Big 10 team even if they aren't that good), Syracuse and Butler

I forgot these games don't count.

Yes, they obviously count, but if we beat Delaware St by 40 and Ellison (or anybody else) scores 20 points on 10-13 shooting with 5 assists and 0 turnovers in that game but then goes a combined 6-22 against Penn St, Syracuse and Butler with 4 assists and 9 turnovers would you say that player is good because he beats up on teams like Delaware St? Of course not.

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

What makes him look even worse if possible is the way he misses shots. Sometimes he shoots like when they drag the guy out onto the court from the stands to try and make a free throw. All Ellison need is to wear a dress shirt under his jersey and he can pass for that guy

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

What makes him look even worse if possible is the way he misses shots. Sometimes he shoots like when they drag the guy out onto the court from the stands to try and make a free throw. All Ellison need is to wear a dress shirt under his jersey and he can pass for that guy

His complete inability to make a layup when driving to the basket frustrates me more than his shot does. He can be a good player without being a good shooter but he can't be a good player if he can't make layups

Quote from: we are sju on November 29, 2016, 01:05:49 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

What makes him look even worse if possible is the way he misses shots. Sometimes he shoots like when they drag the guy out onto the court from the stands to try and make a free throw. All Ellison need is to wear a dress shirt under his jersey and he can pass for that guy

His complete inability to make a layup when driving to the basket frustrates me more than his shot does. He can be a good player without being a good shooter but he can't be a good player if he can't make layups

I think part of the problem is yes he is 6-6 but he really isn't that athletic. Mussini might have a higher layup shooting % and I don't think he can touch the net.

The problem I see with this team is we've got a bunch of good players (hopefully) that need a month or two to get going, but we don't have any real vets to bridge that gap.

I think Sima has played solid...his shots just aren't going down. Ahmed's future is in and near the paint and he needs another 6-12 games to understand his role and his limitations. RF will be the answer at the four before the season is over IMO, but the kid has to get used to the speed of the game. It would be easier if he was a pure PF.  Even Ellison, who I can't stand right now, should be much better in a few weeks.

.500 would be a very solid accomplishment for this group.

IMO RF could potentially be a good player for us in the future.. He can give us some minutes at the 4, but to expect him to be the answer this year is too premature. I agree w Dave that Ahmed could be the answer at the 4 and you said his future is in the paint. For that to happen Mussini or Ellison will have to step up. Another possibility could be to play RF at the 3 and Ahmed at the 4. Who knows maybe 2 of our 3 bigs will really improve as the season progresses. We will see.

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2016, 11:49:13 AM

The problem I see with this team is we've got a bunch of good players (hopefully) that need a month or two to get going, but we don't have any real vets to bridge that gap.

I think Sima has played solid...his shots just aren't going down. Ahmed's future is in and near the paint and he needs another 6-12 games to understand his role and his limitations. RF will be the answer at the four before the season is over IMO, but the kid has to get used to the speed of the game. It would be easier if he was a pure PF.  Even Ellison, who I can't stand right now, should be much better in a few weeks.

.500 would be a very solid accomplishment for this group.

IMO RF could potentially be a good player for us in the future.. He can give us some minutes at the 4, but to expect him to be the answer this year is too premature. I agree w Dave that Ahmed could be the answer at the 4 and you said his future is in the paint. For that to happen Mussini or Ellison will have to step up. Another possibility could be to play RF at the 3 and Ahmed at the 4. Who knows maybe 2 of our 3 bigs will really improve as the season progresses. We will see.

I think RF needs to get confident and improve his speed of play. He is the eventual 3.

I'm also surprised at some point why St. John's doesn't try to go zone defensively. Would mask height problems and guard the paint with rim protector.

Quote from: ras on November 29, 2016, 03:14:31 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2016, 11:49:13 AM

The problem I see with this team is we've got a bunch of good players (hopefully) that need a month or two to get going, but we don't have any real vets to bridge that gap.

I think Sima has played solid...his shots just aren't going down. Ahmed's future is in and near the paint and he needs another 6-12 games to understand his role and his limitations. RF will be the answer at the four before the season is over IMO, but the kid has to get used to the speed of the game. It would be easier if he was a pure PF.  Even Ellison, who I can't stand right now, should be much better in a few weeks.

.500 would be a very solid accomplishment for this group.

IMO RF could potentially be a good player for us in the future.. He can give us some minutes at the 4, but to expect him to be the answer this year is too premature. I agree w Dave that Ahmed could be the answer at the 4 and you said his future is in the paint. For that to happen Mussini or Ellison will have to step up. Another possibility could be to play RF at the 3 and Ahmed at the 4. Who knows maybe 2 of our 3 bigs will really improve as the season progresses. We will see.

I think RF needs to get confident and improve his speed of play. He is the eventual 3.

I'm also surprised at some point why St. John's doesn't try to go zone defensively. Would mask height problems and guard the paint with rim protector.

I am pretty sure Chris Mullin can beat RF in a race. If he plays the 3 you are going to have to play some kind of zone and hide him and him and Mussini can never play at same time. Ever

Quote from: ras on November 29, 2016, 03:14:31 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2016, 11:49:13 AM

The problem I see with this team is we've got a bunch of good players (hopefully) that need a month or two to get going, but we don't have any real vets to bridge that gap.

I think Sima has played solid...his shots just aren't going down. Ahmed's future is in and near the paint and he needs another 6-12 games to understand his role and his limitations. RF will be the answer at the four before the season is over IMO, but the kid has to get used to the speed of the game. It would be easier if he was a pure PF.  Even Ellison, who I can't stand right now, should be much better in a few weeks.

.500 would be a very solid accomplishment for this group.

IMO RF could potentially be a good player for us in the future.. He can give us some minutes at the 4, but to expect him to be the answer this year is too premature. I agree w Dave that Ahmed could be the answer at the 4 and you said his future is in the paint. For that to happen Mussini or Ellison will have to step up. Another possibility could be to play RF at the 3 and Ahmed at the 4. Who knows maybe 2 of our 3 bigs will really improve as the season progresses. We will see.

I think RF needs to get confident and improve his speed of play. He is the eventual 3.

I'm also surprised at some point why St. John's doesn't try to go zone defensively. Would mask height problems and guard the paint with rim protector.

I'd prefer to see them press for 40 minutes as the team has depth to rotate in and out to keep the bodies fresh and 3 guys that can play the back of the zone and protect the rim. Can also drop into a zone if a team beats the press and sets up their offense

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2016, 03:25:09 PM

Quote from: ras on November 29, 2016, 03:14:31 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2016, 11:49:13 AM

The problem I see with this team is we've got a bunch of good players (hopefully) that need a month or two to get going, but we don't have any real vets to bridge that gap.

I think Sima has played solid...his shots just aren't going down. Ahmed's future is in and near the paint and he needs another 6-12 games to understand his role and his limitations. RF will be the answer at the four before the season is over IMO, but the kid has to get used to the speed of the game. It would be easier if he was a pure PF.  Even Ellison, who I can't stand right now, should be much better in a few weeks.

.500 would be a very solid accomplishment for this group.

IMO RF could potentially be a good player for us in the future.. He can give us some minutes at the 4, but to expect him to be the answer this year is too premature. I agree w Dave that Ahmed could be the answer at the 4 and you said his future is in the paint. For that to happen Mussini or Ellison will have to step up. Another possibility could be to play RF at the 3 and Ahmed at the 4. Who knows maybe 2 of our 3 bigs will really improve as the season progresses. We will see.

I think RF needs to get confident and improve his speed of play. He is the eventual 3.

I'm also surprised at some point why St. John's doesn't try to go zone defensively. Would mask height problems and guard the paint with rim protector.

I am pretty sure Chris Mullin can beat RF in a race. If he plays the 3 you are going to have to play some kind of zone and hide him and him and Mussini can never play at same time. Ever

He's not quick but damn he isn't that bad. I think it will depend on the matchup. I do think this team would benefit from mixing up defenses.

Quote from: we are sju on November 29, 2016, 03:53:05 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2016, 03:25:09 PM

Quote from: ras on November 29, 2016, 03:14:31 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2016, 11:49:13 AM

The problem I see with this team is we've got a bunch of good players (hopefully) that need a month or two to get going, but we don't have any real vets to bridge that gap.

I think Sima has played solid...his shots just aren't going down. Ahmed's future is in and near the paint and he needs another 6-12 games to understand his role and his limitations. RF will be the answer at the four before the season is over IMO, but the kid has to get used to the speed of the game. It would be easier if he was a pure PF.  Even Ellison, who I can't stand right now, should be much better in a few weeks.

.500 would be a very solid accomplishment for this group.

IMO RF could potentially be a good player for us in the future.. He can give us some minutes at the 4, but to expect him to be the answer this year is too premature. I agree w Dave that Ahmed could be the answer at the 4 and you said his future is in the paint. For that to happen Mussini or Ellison will have to step up. Another possibility could be to play RF at the 3 and Ahmed at the 4. Who knows maybe 2 of our 3 bigs will really improve as the season progresses. We will see.

I think RF needs to get confident and improve his speed of play. He is the eventual 3.

I'm also surprised at some point why St. John's doesn't try to go zone defensively. Would mask height problems and guard the paint with rim protector.

I am pretty sure Chris Mullin can beat RF in a race. If he plays the 3 you are going to have to play some kind of zone and hide him and him and Mussini can never play at same time. Ever

He's not quick but damn he isn't that bad. I think it will depend on the matchup. I do think this team would benefit from mixing up defenses.

He may get better but at this point he is the worst player on one of the worst teams in SJU history

Can't wait to hear Mullin's post-game press conf quotes.

He better step up and put some of this on him and the coaches.

Flip side, Izzo from Mich St. last week put the blame on him for the aggressive scheduling taking it's toll.

Yes, our bigs are useless but way too much rotation of players, poor lineup, not enough discipline... that's all on coaches.

We suck.