Game 12: St. Joe's

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 21, 2017, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 20, 2017, 06:32:21 PM

Another ugly game. Nothing else to say except we survived again without Lovett.  10-2 is 10-2. We've beaten everyone worse than us and lost to the two teams that were equal or better.

It's a good thing the staff is taking your advice never to play Simon at the end of games, he sucks...

Marillac is in love with Ponds. If you say anything positive about Lovett or Simon, Marillac takes that as a criticism of Ponds.

Have you conceded yet that  Ponds is clearly best player on the team?

I like Ponds. Other than Anthony Mason jr I have always liked team's best player.
Unless your name is Marcus Hatten you are not making the tourney with only one good player. Team needs Lovett who is is their best shooter which is what I said I believe. 

So you don’t think that Owens, Ahmed, Clark and Simon are good players?

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 02:37:18 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 21, 2017, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 20, 2017, 06:32:21 PM

Another ugly game. Nothing else to say except we survived again without Lovett.  10-2 is 10-2. We've beaten everyone worse than us and lost to the two teams that were equal or better.

It's a good thing the staff is taking your advice never to play Simon at the end of games, he sucks...

Marillac is in love with Ponds. If you say anything positive about Lovett or Simon, Marillac takes that as a criticism of Ponds.

Have you conceded yet that  Ponds is clearly best player on the team?

I like Ponds. Other than Anthony Mason jr I have always liked team's best player.
Unless your name is Marcus Hatten you are not making the tourney with only one good player. Team needs Lovett who is is their best shooter which is what I said I believe. 

So you don’t think that Owens, Ahmed, Clark and Simon are good players?

Yes the team has 6 quality players. It sort of reminds me of a less talented Artest Elite 8 team.

Team really only has 3 legit scorers and I don't trust Ahmed to be option 2.

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 02:37:18 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 21, 2017, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 20, 2017, 06:32:21 PM

Another ugly game. Nothing else to say except we survived again without Lovett.  10-2 is 10-2. We've beaten everyone worse than us and lost to the two teams that were equal or better.

It's a good thing the staff is taking your advice never to play Simon at the end of games, he sucks...

Marillac is in love with Ponds. If you say anything positive about Lovett or Simon, Marillac takes that as a criticism of Ponds.

Have you conceded yet that  Ponds is clearly best player on the team?

I like Ponds. Other than Anthony Mason jr I have always liked team's best player.
Unless your name is Marcus Hatten you are not making the tourney with only one good player. Team needs Lovett who is is their best shooter which is what I said I believe. 

So you don’t think that Owens, Ahmed, Clark and Simon are good players?

Should have said ONE GOOD SCORER not player.

Quote from: Poison on December 21, 2017, 02:58:26 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 02:37:18 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 21, 2017, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 20, 2017, 06:32:21 PM

Another ugly game. Nothing else to say except we survived again without Lovett.  10-2 is 10-2. We've beaten everyone worse than us and lost to the two teams that were equal or better.

It's a good thing the staff is taking your advice never to play Simon at the end of games, he sucks...

Marillac is in love with Ponds. If you say anything positive about Lovett or Simon, Marillac takes that as a criticism of Ponds.

Have you conceded yet that  Ponds is clearly best player on the team?

I like Ponds. Other than Anthony Mason jr I have always liked team's best player.
Unless your name is Marcus Hatten you are not making the tourney with only one good player. Team needs Lovett who is is their best shooter which is what I said I believe. 

So you don’t think that Owens, Ahmed, Clark and Simon are good players?

Should have said ONE GOOD SCORER not player.

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Size, depth,  and experience favors the Hatten supporting cast over Ponds' crew.

Quote from: Poison on December 21, 2017, 02:58:26 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 02:37:18 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 21, 2017, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 20, 2017, 06:32:21 PM

Another ugly game. Nothing else to say except we survived again without Lovett.  10-2 is 10-2. We've beaten everyone worse than us and lost to the two teams that were equal or better.

It's a good thing the staff is taking your advice never to play Simon at the end of games, he sucks...

Marillac is in love with Ponds. If you say anything positive about Lovett or Simon, Marillac takes that as a criticism of Ponds.

Have you conceded yet that  Ponds is clearly best player on the team?

I like Ponds. Other than Anthony Mason jr I have always liked team's best player.
Unless your name is Marcus Hatten you are not making the tourney with only one good player. Team needs Lovett who is is their best shooter which is what I said I believe. 

So you don’t think that Owens, Ahmed, Clark and Simon are good players?

Yes the team has 6 quality players. It sort of reminds me of a less talented Artest Elite 8 team.

Team really only has 3 legit scorers and I don't trust Ahmed to be option 2.

This team absolutely needs Ahmed to keep being the guy he was yesterday. He keeps doing that, we'll keep winning. It's unreasonable to compare the 98-99 team this one. That team had developed talent, including 2 McDonald's kids.

That said, it hinges on LoVett's knee. Then again, maybe they are alike. LoVett's knee and Grant's hand. We always seem to be 1 injury away from really competing in that season that we could be special.

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 03:18:56 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 21, 2017, 02:58:26 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 02:37:18 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 21, 2017, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 20, 2017, 06:32:21 PM

Another ugly game. Nothing else to say except we survived again without Lovett.  10-2 is 10-2. We've beaten everyone worse than us and lost to the two teams that were equal or better.

It's a good thing the staff is taking your advice never to play Simon at the end of games, he sucks...

Marillac is in love with Ponds. If you say anything positive about Lovett or Simon, Marillac takes that as a criticism of Ponds.

Have you conceded yet that  Ponds is clearly best player on the team?

I like Ponds. Other than Anthony Mason jr I have always liked team's best player.
Unless your name is Marcus Hatten you are not making the tourney with only one good player. Team needs Lovett who is is their best shooter which is what I said I believe. 

So you don’t think that Owens, Ahmed, Clark and Simon are good players?

Yes the team has 6 quality players. It sort of reminds me of a less talented Artest Elite 8 team.

Team really only has 3 legit scorers and I don't trust Ahmed to be option 2.

This team absolutely needs Ahmed to keep being the guy he was yesterday. He keeps doing that, we'll keep winning. It's unreasonable to compare the 98-99 team this one. That team had developed talent, including 2 McDonald's kids.

That said, it hinges on LoVett's knee. Then again, maybe they are alike. LoVett's knee and Grant's hand. We always seem to be 1 injury away from really competing in that season that we could be special.

Didn't say they were going to make Elite 8. Not sure they will make tourney. I do think they will. Just meant small rotation, small team and guard orientated.

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds?  We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds?  We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Wow when is the wedding. Now people praising Hatten is somehow a slight at Ponds?
Simon and Lovett would be the 2nd and 3rd best players Hatten played with.

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 03:19:48 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 21, 2017, 02:58:26 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 02:37:18 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 21, 2017, 01:01:51 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 20, 2017, 07:40:40 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 20, 2017, 06:32:21 PM

Another ugly game. Nothing else to say except we survived again without Lovett.  10-2 is 10-2. We've beaten everyone worse than us and lost to the two teams that were equal or better.

It's a good thing the staff is taking your advice never to play Simon at the end of games, he sucks...

Marillac is in love with Ponds. If you say anything positive about Lovett or Simon, Marillac takes that as a criticism of Ponds.

Have you conceded yet that  Ponds is clearly best player on the team?

I like Ponds. Other than Anthony Mason jr I have always liked team's best player.
Unless your name is Marcus Hatten you are not making the tourney with only one good player. Team needs Lovett who is is their best shooter which is what I said I believe. 

So you don’t think that Owens, Ahmed, Clark and Simon are good players?

Should have said ONE GOOD SCORER not player.

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Size, depth,  and experience favors the Hatten supporting cast over Ponds' crew.

This is bananas. When did Marcus Hatten get to rely on Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakite or anyone for that matter?
When Ponds gets LoVett back, he'll have a backcourt partner unlike anyone Hatten ever played with here.

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds? 

Much better. Not even close better.

 

We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Anthony Glover was a beast and Fordham was the best on ball defender SJU has ever had. Willie Shaw was a one trick pony and the rest of the ones you mentioned - even the walk ons - were somewhere between mediocre and awful. Kuffe was among the softest players to have ever played at SJ's. although he showed heart during his seniot year. King ahd potential but was run out of town, Emmanuel was a joke for three years and Diakete wasn't vaguely funny. Tristan Smith and Tim Doyle were the best players on those teams and you didn't mention them.

Hatten was magic. He's a top ten player at SJU in my lifetime. Veneration of Ponds skills - which are prodigious - don't require slandering his team mates or past players and in fact it cheapens him when you do so.

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds? 

Much better. Not even close better.

 

Quote

We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Anthony Glover was a beast and Fordham was the best on ball defender SJU has ever had. Willie Shaw was a one trick pony and the rest of the ones you mentioned - even the walk ons - were somewhere between mediocre and awful. Kuffe was among the softest players to have ever played at SJ's. although he showed heart during his seniot year. King ahd potential but was run out of town, Emmanuel was a joke for three years and Diakete wasn't vaguely funny. Tristan Smith and Tim Doyle were the best players on those teams and you didn't mention them.

Hatten was magic. He's a top ten player at SJU in my lifetime. Veneration of Ponds skills - which are prodigious - don't require slandering his team mates or past players and in fact it cheapens him when you do so.

Hatten was awesome, but I don't think Ponds would have done worse than what Hatten's senior team did if he had those teammates. Those teams had 3-4 guys that could handle the ball to let him spot up and play off the ball 10-15 minutes like they didn for Hatten.

I think Ponds is better than Hatten, but I also think Ponds is the best player we've had since Barkley.

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 05:34:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds? 

Much better. Not even close better.

 

Quote

We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Anthony Glover was a beast and Fordham was the best on ball defender SJU has ever had. Willie Shaw was a one trick pony and the rest of the ones you mentioned - even the walk ons - were somewhere between mediocre and awful. Kuffe was among the softest players to have ever played at SJ's. although he showed heart during his seniot year. King ahd potential but was run out of town, Emmanuel was a joke for three years and Diakete wasn't vaguely funny. Tristan Smith and Tim Doyle were the best players on those teams and you didn't mention them.

Hatten was magic. He's a top ten player at SJU in my lifetime. Veneration of Ponds skills - which are prodigious - don't require slandering his team mates or past players and in fact it cheapens him when you do so.

Hatten was awesome, but I don't think Ponds would have done worse than what Hatten's senior team did if he had those teammates. Those teams had 3-4 guys that could handle the ball to let him spot up and play off the ball 10-15 minutes like they didn for Hatten.

I think Ponds is better than Hatten, but I also think Ponds is the best player we've had since Barkley.

Only a Soph so could still change assuming he doesn't decide to play in Uruguay next year, but here is how I have him ranked with similar players:
1. Hatten
2. Hardy
3. Ponds
4. Harrison
And I liked all of those guys so it is no slight.

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 06:16:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 05:34:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds? 

Much better. Not even close better.

 

Quote

We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Anthony Glover was a beast and Fordham was the best on ball defender SJU has ever had. Willie Shaw was a one trick pony and the rest of the ones you mentioned - even the walk ons - were somewhere between mediocre and awful. Kuffe was among the softest players to have ever played at SJ's. although he showed heart during his seniot year. King ahd potential but was run out of town, Emmanuel was a joke for three years and Diakete wasn't vaguely funny. Tristan Smith and Tim Doyle were the best players on those teams and you didn't mention them.

Hatten was magic. He's a top ten player at SJU in my lifetime. Veneration of Ponds skills - which are prodigious - don't require slandering his team mates or past players and in fact it cheapens him when you do so.

Hatten was awesome, but I don't think Ponds would have done worse than what Hatten's senior team did if he had those teammates. Those teams had 3-4 guys that could handle the ball to let him spot up and play off the ball 10-15 minutes like they didn for Hatten.

I think Ponds is better than Hatten, but I also think Ponds is the best player we've had since Barkley.

Only a Soph so could still change assuming he doesn't decide to play in Uruguay next year, but here is how I have him ranked with similar players:
1. Hatten
2. Hardy
3. Ponds
4. Harrison
And I liked all of those guys so it is no slight.

That's crazy that you don't think Ponds is already better than Hardy. He's twice the athlete and he has superior vision and passing.

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 05:34:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds? 

Much better. Not even close better.

 

Quote

We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Anthony Glover was a beast and Fordham was the best on ball defender SJU has ever had. Willie Shaw was a one trick pony and the rest of the ones you mentioned - even the walk ons - were somewhere between mediocre and awful. Kuffe was among the softest players to have ever played at SJ's. although he showed heart during his seniot year. King ahd potential but was run out of town, Emmanuel was a joke for three years and Diakete wasn't vaguely funny. Tristan Smith and Tim Doyle were the best players on those teams and you didn't mention them.

Hatten was magic. He's a top ten player at SJU in my lifetime. Veneration of Ponds skills - which are prodigious - don't require slandering his team mates or past players and in fact it cheapens him when you do so.

Hatten was awesome, but I don't think Ponds would have done worse than what Hatten's senior team did if he had those teammates. Those teams had 3-4 guys that could handle the ball to let him spot up and play off the ball 10-15 minutes like they didn for Hatten.

I think Ponds is better than Hatten, but I also think Ponds is the best player we've had since Barkley.

Ponds is a much better shooter than Hatten was, despite which they're equivalent volume scorers. They're relatively equivalent rebounders and passers. Hatten was miles beyond Ponds in defense, it's not even close. And Hatten was a winner, something Ponds has not yet been. In four years maybe we'll look back at Ponds and he'll be have been better than Hatten. But as of today he's nothing more than a talented sophomore with unlimited upside.

Quote from: we are sju on December 21, 2017, 07:17:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 06:16:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 05:34:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds? 

Much better. Not even close better.

 

Quote

We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Anthony Glover was a beast and Fordham was the best on ball defender SJU has ever had. Willie Shaw was a one trick pony and the rest of the ones you mentioned - even the walk ons - were somewhere between mediocre and awful. Kuffe was among the softest players to have ever played at SJ's. although he showed heart during his seniot year. King ahd potential but was run out of town, Emmanuel was a joke for three years and Diakete wasn't vaguely funny. Tristan Smith and Tim Doyle were the best players on those teams and you didn't mention them.

Hatten was magic. He's a top ten player at SJU in my lifetime. Veneration of Ponds skills - which are prodigious - don't require slandering his team mates or past players and in fact it cheapens him when you do so.

Hatten was awesome, but I don't think Ponds would have done worse than what Hatten's senior team did if he had those teammates. Those teams had 3-4 guys that could handle the ball to let him spot up and play off the ball 10-15 minutes like they didn for Hatten.

I think Ponds is better than Hatten, but I also think Ponds is the best player we've had since Barkley.

Only a Soph so could still change assuming he doesn't decide to play in Uruguay next year, but here is how I have him ranked with similar players:
1. Hatten
2. Hardy
3. Ponds
4. Harrison
And I liked all of those guys so it is no slight.

That's crazy that you don't think Ponds is already better than Hardy. He's twice the athlete and he has superior vision and passing.

Best player on a tournament team. Ponds can tie him if they make the tourney.

I get that Hardy wasn't as talented as Ponds, and probably had a better supporting cast. But there was a level of confidence I had, when he had the ball in his hands in the waning minutes of games that has not been close to replicated in Harrison or Ponds.

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

Has to be sarcasm. He actually mentioned Mo Diakate who last I heard was still searching for his first basket as a collegian.

You felt that way about Hardy because of how that season progressed.  If I asked you if you felt that way when Hardy was a junior - when Norm didn't know what he had with him or Brownlee - you wouldn't have felt better with him having the ball at any time than Ponds.

I get that Hardy wasn't as talented as Ponds, and probably had a better supporting cast. But there was a level of confidence I had, when he had the ball in his hands in the waning minutes of games that has not been close to replicated in Harrison or Ponds.

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 06:16:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 05:34:38 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 21, 2017, 04:08:57 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 21, 2017, 03:55:20 PM

I think we tend to give Hatten too much credit by completely diminishing his supporting cast. Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Mo Diakate, and Anthony Glover were all top 60 recruits -- I believe Glover was too 15-20. The first year he also had Sharif Fordham and he had Andre Stanley both years. Plus Eric King and Donald Emmanuel

Is this sarcasm?

How much better do you think the supporting cast is for Ponds? 

Much better. Not even close better.

 

Quote

We have no size or depth. Glover averaged over 10 and 5 as a freshman for a top 15 team that won the Big East championship. Willie Shaw averaged 13.6 of as a frosh. Sharif Fordham was one of the best defenders we ever had.

Anthony Glover was a beast and Fordham was the best on ball defender SJU has ever had. Willie Shaw was a one trick pony and the rest of the ones you mentioned - even the walk ons - were somewhere between mediocre and awful. Kuffe was among the softest players to have ever played at SJ's. although he showed heart during his seniot year. King ahd potential but was run out of town, Emmanuel was a joke for three years and Diakete wasn't vaguely funny. Tristan Smith and Tim Doyle were the best players on those teams and you didn't mention them.

Hatten was magic. He's a top ten player at SJU in my lifetime. Veneration of Ponds skills - which are prodigious - don't require slandering his team mates or past players and in fact it cheapens him when you do so.

Hatten was awesome, but I don't think Ponds would have done worse than what Hatten's senior team did if he had those teammates. Those teams had 3-4 guys that could handle the ball to let him spot up and play off the ball 10-15 minutes like they didn for Hatten.

I think Ponds is better than Hatten, but I also think Ponds is the best player we've had since Barkley.

Ponds is a much better shooter than Hatten was, despite which they're equivalent volume scorers. They're relatively equivalent rebounders and passers. Hatten was miles beyond Ponds in defense, it's not even close. And Hatten was a winner, something Ponds has not yet been. In four years maybe we'll look back at Ponds and he'll be have been better than Hatten. But as of today he's nothing more than a talented sophomore with unlimited upside.

Correct.