Trust the Process

Mussini went home to Italy to play for money rather than spend another year here to be our fourth guard. We're we supposed to pay him to keep him here? Ellison practiced against Simon for a year and could tell what we all can tell: Simon is better. He left for a better chance at playing time at Pitt.

 I wish both had stayed, but all teams deal with roster turnover. Next year we'll be in better shape to deal with whatever comes up. Are we going to blame the staff because UConn recruited Sid Wilson after he was already enrolled and taking summer classes?

Mussini went home to Italy to play for money rather than spend another year here to be our fourth guard. We're we supposed to pay him to keep him here? Ellison practiced against Simon for a year and could tell what we all can tell: Simon is better. He left for a better chance at playing time at Pitt.

 I wish both had stayed, but all teams deal with roster turnover. Next year we'll be in better shape to deal with whatever comes up. Are we going to blame the staff because UConn recruited Sid Wilson after he was already enrolled and taking summer classes?

Stat for foady- he loves stats- St. John’s 8-30 in the big east since Lavin was fired. Lavin same cupard, google his record. 38 games is a big sample size. Assume we are in wainwright Purnell territory if not worse

Lavin brought plenty of unwanted drama with player eligibility, attitude problems, questionable characters such as Nurideen Lindsay and Rysheed Jordan and an overall lack of control over his program.

That said, when they fired Lavin, we lost Brandon Sampson, Chris Obekpa and Rysheed Jordan. All three might have started for St.John’s had their coach remained with the program. The University and a big chunk of the fan base had enough of the Lavin circus. I am one of those people.

That doesn’t mean that our response is to hire a coach with zero coaching experience. Maybe we could have hired Bobby or Danny Hurley, or maybe they are smart enough to avoid the STJ braintrust.

Mussini went home to Italy to play for money rather than spend another year here to be our fourth guard. We're we supposed to pay him to keep him here? Ellison practiced against Simon for a year and could tell what we all can tell: Simon is better. He left for a better chance at playing time at Pitt.

 I wish both had stayed, but all teams deal with roster turnover. Next year we'll be in better shape to deal with whatever comes up. Are we going to blame the staff because UConn recruited Sid Wilson after he was already enrolled and taking summer classes?

No. Not specifically. It’s not fair to call out a specific player or situation and judge the staff on it. We started the season with 9 players. The fact that we are short handed now is 100% their fault. I don’t care why Wilson pulled that shit. It’s not the point. The staff f’d around all summer and just may have ruined what could have been a tournament season.

Quote from: Foad on January 04, 2018, 06:11:23 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 04, 2018, 05:46:04 PM

Still would take Lavin back in a heartbeat,

That's because you're dumb.

No because Lavin is a Basketball coach .

No, Lavin is a bulbous vacuous jibber jabbering buffoon.  He's an imbecile and an incompetent. He destroyed the premiere basketball program in the country in five short years and having been handed a blank check and the keys the NYC failed miserably at St John's. He's much better suited to television, a medium in which his utter vapidity is a boon. I'm not surprised you fell for it, because you're something of a rube. No offense.

Basketball coaches are paid to win games.

How many post season wins did Lavin manage in five years for the 20 million dollars he was paid? Answer: one. Nearly as many chins as he managed to accumulate during his tenure at St John's.

How many wins did Lavin manage in his first three years absent the benefit of the senior laden roster that he inherited from ace recruiter Norm Roberts. Answer 19. Half a dozen fewer than Mullin, who inherited a shit roster from Lavin.

How many times have you soiled your diapers during Mullin's tenure? One hundred forty seven, but it's early.

I'm sorry, but it's impossible to take seriously anyone who pines for Lavin, because Lavin was an abomination. If you said said that Lavin sucked but Mullin sucks too, that's at least understandable. I think it's  too early to tell, but at least it's understandable. But to laud Lavin reveals a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball, of life, of human nature, which coming from a highly educated gym teacher such as yourself is disappointing. Lavin was an awful awful awful coach. He was a horrible lazy recruiter, an atrocious strategist, a public relations nightmare and a completely neurotic buffoon. Waa my daddy died waa waa waa. Waa I got cancer waa waa waa. Jim Calhoun has had more cancer than people who were at ground zero at Hiroshima, at this point he's more tumor than healthy tissue. Point to where Jim Calhoun mentioned his illness once, much less mentioned it every chance he got on national television to excuse being a complete and utter failure in his chosen profession. Pro tip, you can't. You know why? Because Calhoun isn't a basketball coach, he's a man. Whereas Lavin is much less than that. Much less.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 04, 2018, 06:33:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 04, 2018, 06:11:23 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 04, 2018, 05:46:04 PM

Still would take Lavin back in a heartbeat,

That's because you're dumb.

No because Lavin is a Basketball coach .

No, Lavin is a bulbous vacuous jibber jabbering buffoon.  He's an imbecile and an incompetent. He destroyed the premiere basketball program in the country in five short years and having been handed a blank check and the keys the NYC failed miserably at St John's. He's much better suited to television, a medium in which his utter vapidity is a boon. I'm not surprised you fell for it, because you're something of a rube. No offense.

Quote

Basketball coaches are paid to win games.

How many post season wins did Lavin manage in five years for the 20 million dollars he was paid? Answer: one. Nearly as many chins as he managed to accumulate during his tenure at St John's.

How many wins did Lavin manage in his first three years absent the benefit of the senior laden roster that he inherited from ace recruiter Norm Roberts. Answer 19. Half a dozen fewer than Mullin, who inherited a shit roster from Lavin.

How many times have you soiled your diapers during Mullin's tenure? One hundred forty seven, but it's early.

I'm sorry, but it's impossible to take seriously anyone who pines for Lavin, because Lavin was an abomination. If you said said that Lavin sucked but Mullin sucks too, that's at least understandable. I think it's  too early to tell, but at least it's understandable. But to laud Lavin reveals a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball, of life, of human nature, which coming from a highly educated gym teacher such as yourself is disappointing. Lavin was an awful awful awful coach. He was a horrible lazy recruiter, an atrocious strategist, a public relations nightmare and a completely neurotic buffoon. Waa my daddy died waa waa waa. Waa I got cancer waa waa waa. Jim Calhoun has had more cancer than people who were at ground zero at Hiroshima, at this point he's more tumor than healthy tissue. Point to where Jim Calhoun mentioned his illness once, much less mentioned it every chance he got on national television to excuse being a complete and utter failure in his chosen profession. Pro tip, you can't. You know why? Because Calhoun isn't a basketball coach, he's a man. Whereas Lavin is much less than that. Much less.

If Lavin failed miserably what did Norm do? Bad luck right? What is Mullin doing now? Also bad luck? Only Lavin should be held accountable. We get it.

Lavin brought plenty of unwanted drama with player eligibility, attitude problems, questionable characters such as Nurideen Lindsay and Rysheed Jordan and an overall lack of control over his program.

That said, when they fired Lavin, we lost Brandon Sampson, Chris Obekpa and Rysheed Jordan. All three might have started for St.John’s had their coach remained with the program. The University and a big chunk of the fan base had enough of the Lavin circus. I am one of those people.

That doesn’t mean that our response is to hire a coach with zero coaching experience. Maybe we could have hired Bobby or Danny Hurley, or maybe they are smart enough to avoid the STJ braintrust.

Fair enough. Can we separate your misgivings about who was hired to follow Lavin - who we agree was not the answer - from what the present staff has accomplished? That is, you are disappointed that the university did not hire an established coach and think hiring Mullin was another mistake from a program that hasn't made a good coaching hire since 1996. (That's Fran. Good logical hire. I recall being pleased when Jarvis was hired to replace him. He had a good reputation and frankly I was happy that they'd hired a minority coach considering all the contributions that minorities has made to the program. I thought that sort of pay back warranted. Christian even. That he turned out to be a disaster aside). Maybe it was a failed attempt to reclaim former glory from a program still under the sway of Louie and Lapchick, still delusional about its place in the basketball universe. Can we at least agree that despite the fact that Mullin might not have been the best hire that the trajectory of the program is vaguely upward? That talent wise the first five or six are as good as have been here for a while, that the coaching is improving, that the recruiting is as good as it's been? Leave aside the mistakes and shortcomings and misgivings. Leave aside Lovett's unfortunate injury and the unfortunate start. Is there really no cause for optimism? Because that's what I have trouble with, not the short term disappointment, but the long term gloom, all the full diapers, all the wailing and gnashing of teeth. I just don't get it..

If Lavin failed miserably what did Norm do? Bad luck right? What is Mullin doing now? Also bad luck? Only Lavin should be held accountable. We get it.

Is that a serious question? Norm stunk. Does that mean Lavin couldn't have stunk also? Oprah's fat. Therefore Rosie isn't also fat? What are you even talking about?

Trust the process- Mullin 8-30- poor defense- poor rebounding- terrible shot selection- roster unstable. Are any of those statements untrue? Besides the roster, which Mullin has to take some blame.

Trust the process- Mullin 8-30- poor defense- poor rebounding- terrible shot selection- roster unstable. Are any of those statements untrue? Besides the roster, which Mullin has to take some blame.

"This team is playing league leading defense." - TONYD3 2hrs ago

Scary how much I agree with Foad in this thread. This is year 3 of a complete rebuild for Mullin and his staff. He's rebuilding at what has been a mostly irrelevant program in a fairly difficult conference. Nobody was going to step into that situation and go to a sweet 16 in year 3. There are reasons for optimism and reasons for pessimism regarding the future, and it's still too early to tell one way or the other how this is going to turn out. In the middle of year 3 I think it's impossible to think the staff has either been a massive success or massive failure thus far.

Pros:

- So far the staff seems to know how to put together a balanced roster across classes, something the last staff did not do. This should lead us to avoid complete rebuilding seasons going forward and should lead to some consistency.
- Despite not being able to lure any 5 star players here yet, the staff has proven they can convince talented players to play here, both through HS recruiting and transfers.

Neutral:
- The jury is still out on how well they develop players. Owens has shown great improvement but Yakwe has gone backwards.

Cons:
- The X's and O's leave a lot to be desired. The team has improved defensively, but there are still plenty of correctable defensive lapses that occur. These were masked somewhat earlier in the season against weaker competition but are being exploited now by the better teams. Then there is a horrid shot selection and stretches within games where the offense looks completely lost.
- The roster turnover is concerning. It is commonplace in college basketball these days for teams to lose players via transfer/going pro but we have been particularly snakebit in this area over the last couple years.

Moral of the story is I don't see how anybody can be extremely positive or negative on the overall performance of the staff so far.

Quote from: Lycidas on January 04, 2018, 07:44:27 PM

Mussini went home to Italy to play for money rather than spend another year here to be our fourth guard. We're we supposed to pay him to keep him here? Ellison practiced against Simon for a year and could tell what we all can tell: Simon is better. He left for a better chance at playing time at Pitt.

 I wish both had stayed, but all teams deal with roster turnover. Next year we'll be in better shape to deal with whatever comes up. Are we going to blame the staff because UConn recruited Sid Wilson after he was already enrolled and taking summer classes?

Stat for foady- he loves stats- St. John’s 8-30 in the big east since Lavin was fired. Lavin same cupard, google his record. 38 games is a big sample size. Assume we are in wainwright Purnell territory if not worse

Bringing up Mullin's 8-30 record for this argument is completely disingenuous and you know that. There is not a coach on the planet that would have done much better than the 1-15 Mullin went in his first year with what he inherited. Lavin, with a full year head start went 6-12 and 7-11 in his first 2 years with his own players.

Quote from: Poison on January 04, 2018, 09:05:52 PM

If Lavin failed miserably what did Norm do? Bad luck right? What is Mullin doing now? Also bad luck? Only Lavin should be held accountable. We get it.

Is that a serious question? Norm stunk. Does that mean Lavin couldn't have stunk also? Oprah's fat. Therefore Rosie isn't also fat? What are you even talking about?

Degrees of fat and stink, no?

I get the frustration. I really do. But here is the thing, who do you think the next guy will be? The best / only option is to pray Mullin gets it done. First year was a wash and would have been for Coach K. 2nd year was better. Things looked even better this year until Lovett thing happened. You want to blame Mullin for roster mismanagement? Fair. But still only 3 years. Face of program deserves at least Norm time!

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 04, 2018, 09:28:20 PM

Trust the process- Mullin 8-30- poor defense- poor rebounding- terrible shot selection- roster unstable. Are any of those statements untrue? Besides the roster, which Mullin has to take some blame.

"This team is playing league leading defense." - TONYD3 2hrs ago

I believe he was quoting Lycidas.

Quote from: Poison on January 04, 2018, 09:05:52 PM

If Lavin failed miserably what did Norm do? Bad luck right? What is Mullin doing now? Also bad luck? Only Lavin should be held accountable. We get it.

Is that a serious question? Norm stunk. Does that mean Lavin couldn't have stunk also? Oprah's fat. Therefore Rosie isn't also fat? What are you even talking about?

Norm was awful. Lavin underachieved. I give Norm an F. I give Lavin a B-
There is no comparison between the two of them.

The fan base is disgruntled with good reason.

But my all-time favorite basketball player is not going anywhere for a long while unless he hisself decides to defect.

Debating the merits of he and his staff helps fill a void but it's largely pointless.

Quote from: hnk on January 04, 2018, 08:06:58 AM

Despite 0-3 in the Big East, the program is on the right track..  There are lots of plusses.  Lots of improvements. Lots of help on the way. Obviously, right now the depth and rebounding are lacking. Right now, we have zero margin of error.

Rome was not built in a day.

The Big East is brutal and will continue to be. 

This is college basketball...there is no process. This team is a disappointment any way you slice it. The staff went into this season with two kids that could dribble and one of them is a known p*ssy that can be kept out two months with knee sprain.

We MIGHT add one conference win to last year's total. That's not progress.

.
U r a clown... if our STARTING backcourt had not gotten injured we would be minimum 12-3 & 2-1 in the conference.

Once we r back at full strength nobody is going to want any part of this team.....the amount of phonies and frauds on this board is almost as bad as redmut.com.

Enjoy the ride and stop whining like a bunch of bitches.

Not to mention we have already secured one of the best recruiting classes in the country.... which means we will be STACKED next year...... wah, wah, wah..lol

Mostly agree!!!!!

Quote from: Foad on January 04, 2018, 09:21:21 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 04, 2018, 09:05:52 PM

If Lavin failed miserably what did Norm do? Bad luck right? What is Mullin doing now? Also bad luck? Only Lavin should be held accountable. We get it.

Is that a serious question? Norm stunk. Does that mean Lavin couldn't have stunk also? Oprah's fat. Therefore Rosie isn't also fat? What are you even talking about?

Norm was awful. Lavin underachieved. I give Norm an F. I give Lavin a B-
There is no comparison between the two of them.

I didn't make a comparison between them, you did. I didn't bring up Lavin, the other guy did. I didn't bring up Norm, you did.

Other than that you make some good points.