Hope

Quote from: Johnny23 on January 10, 2018, 09:38:49 AM

First off, we're not going 0-18. You'd have to try to real hard for that to happen and clearly our effort hasn't been there. Like I said last night, I think we win about 5 games in conf. If we win 7 or 8 that would be a small miracle. We end the season teetering right about .500 in terms of our overall record making the NIT a possibility.  Mullin gets one more year, Brooks keeps his commitment to us. Staff changes need to be made or it will be more of the same next year with just a few more wins due to increased talent and depth but still way below the team's potential. I hope I'm wrong but we shall see.

That is probably the scenario that plays out.

I can't imagine a 2-16 type of season, he may survive that but boy there will be some calls for his ouster.

But either way he is putting ENORMOUS pressure on himself for next year.

Yeah he really is and will be squarely on the hot seat.

I don't understand how people can seriously talk about going 8-6 over the next 14 and making the ncaa tournament, when we've just lost to depaul and georgetown at home.  that was likely the easiest 5 game span they'll have in the conference schedule and they lost every game.  even if they beat georgetown and depaul on the road (two teams they just lost to at home) they'll need to find 6 more wins in this scenario.  I don't see nova, xavier, seton hall, or creighton losing to us, and they're certainly not going into hinkle and winning.  i think it's more likely that marquette drops 100 on this team than sju sweeping them, but even if they do sweep, that's 4 wins.  beat providence on the road somehow and that's 5. beat butler at home and that's six; hopefully get depaul in the be tourney and that's seven.  this also assumes that they haven't totally quit at this point because the butler (@CA), @prov, and depaul (BE tourn) games will close out the season. 

look, as long as there are games left to be played it's possible to make the tourney, but has this team shown anything in conference play to suggest it's more than a remote possibility? 

They have shown nothing.  The only game you can argue they truly had control and lost it was the Creighton game.  They led by double digits in the second half and had good tempo and then the run and then they failed to make a play.

The other 4 games quite frankly the better team won that game.  Including last night.  Georgetown led for most of the second half and other than a few ties I don't think SJU ever led in the second half.  They trailed for most if not all of the second half including for good portions in double digits for the other 3 (PC, SHU and DePaul).

That is the most discouraging part besides the 0-5 start.  Seriously try to find good play in those 5 games, other than a few spurts in the two road games, you can't.  It has been downright terrible basketball.

When you can't shoot, game will look ugly. Sounds simple but with all of the coaching bashing going on, I think people are missing that.

Look Coach said he thinks this thing is going to turn quickly.  Fine.  Let's see him work his magic.

But Villanova at home and Xavier on the road smell like losses to me, that would put them in an 0-7 hole.  Assuming they lose to Duke they would have to go 8-3 remainder of the season to get to 8-10.  I don't see it.  Not to mention 8-10 would still be a major disappointment and would still put ENORMOUS pressure on this staff to deliver big in 18-19 season.  Forget NCAA next year, they better be challenging for the League title next year.

Think about this in 13-14 Lavin started 0-5 and finished 10-8 went to the NIT with 20 wins.  Not good enough even though they went 10-3 over the next 13 and 2 of the losses were tight road losses to the two top teams Creighton and Villanova.  Next year went 10-8 made the NCAA's and was fired.

My point is not to say he did a good job, he didn't.  My point is if we fire coaches with that type of back to back then not sure why we would give Mullin any more slack.

And unlike 13-14 I don't see a 10-3 League finish for this team.  Heck I don't see 8-10. 

Agree on prognosis

Even when / if Lovett comes back going to take a couple games to get his game back. And I like Lovett but it is not like we are getting Marcus Hatten or Walter Berry back. No depth, no inside scoring and bad shooting team. Margin for error is real small. Like I said I expect us to win a couple but 0-18 would not shock me. If we get to 500 like Mase said they should throw Mullin a parade. 

Not get to 500, play 500 rest of the way with LoVett.

Lets get out first BE win. Then we can talk about hope.

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2018, 08:16:18 AM

I've been pretty negative, so here is a little hope. St. John's has to be the most uniquely positioned team to make a run at the tournament after starting out 0-5 in conference play.

(1) We VERY likely will end up with the top SOS in the country (currently #9 by ESPN and #14 by realtime RPI)

(2) Even though I can't even look at him right now, we supposedly get our second best player back in time to take on the #1 team in the country Saturday at home and they are only playing 7 guys.

(3) No team from a major conference has been left out of the tournament with an RPI better than 49 and there is virtually no way St. John's can win 8 or more games without achieving an RPI inside that mark.

(4) 8-6 puts us on the bubble and a win in the BET puts us on the right side of it. That's probably the 7/10 game against DePaul. Really not that crazy.

Practicing today does not mean LoVett immediately plays or he will take time to get in game shape.

Last night Ahmed came extremely close to being scratched because of illness. No way this season you can lose any of the key guys & expect positive results. The thin roster will continue to bite us in the ass.

I get the possibilities you put together, but can't buy in because of depth issue, the fact we have already lost 3 home games (with one to follow Sat.) & a really tough schedule remaining. Just can't see this squad & staff making any run.

-The luck of having Bash with a 102 degree fever last night was downright cruel. The players, staff and fans didn't deserve to be dealt that card, with a healthy Bash we win by 10 last night. To note, him putting on that long sleeve and battling through a fever that high speaks to his moxie and he should've learned a lot of new respect from a lot of you. He's been our best player during this Marcus nightmare and last night showed what type of character he has.

-With Marcus I think that they're giving to give Nova all that they can handle. 8-6 isn't the craziest of ideas with a full roster. Unfortunately 5 game losing streaks in a 30 game season are debilitating and very hard to recover from. We arguably should've beaten Creighton, GTown, and Hall during this stretch, it leaves very little room for error moving forward.

At this point for any Ncaa dream that people may have they would have to beat Nova and Xavier in the next two games. Seems unlikely to say the least. The lack of depth is absolutely killer. We should have good depth next year but I won’t count on that until I see it on the court. It’s very depressing in January seeemigly always having the conversation of well we should be much better next year. This season unlike any other of recent memory is very very disappointing.

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2018, 09:42:17 AM

Even when / if Lovett comes back going to take a couple games to get his game back. And I like Lovett but it is not like we are getting Marcus Hatten or Walter Berry back. No depth, no inside scoring and bad shooting team. Margin for error is real small. Like I said I expect us to win a couple but 0-18 would not shock me. If we get to 500 like Mase said they should throw Mullin a parade. 

Not get to 500, play 500 rest of the way with LoVett.

Lets break it down like Francesa used to do:
Nova-L
@Xavier-L
@Gtown-Now here is a game you can point to but I do not like ourr chances on the road vs anyone. Think it will be close but we don't win close games.Going with L
Creighton-L
@Butler-L
Xavier -L
Duke-um L
@Nova-L
Marquette-Don't like this matchup and at this point by my calculations we will be 10-15/ 0-12 coming off 2 brutal losses in a row. I got an L
@Depaul-Again on road and they smoked us. But I am giving therm this  one. W
@Marquette-L
SH-L
Butler-We play our best game of season and some people post about how maybe just maybe we win BET after the W.
@Providence-Back to Earth L

So I have us at 12-19 / 2-16 going into BET
Maybe we win @Gtown and vs Marquette at home? But I have them beating Butler for no rhyme or reason so in the end I am going with 2 wins.

At the beginning of the season, the team was playing solid basketball with a full compliment of players and they were never going to an offensive force..   last season everyone complained about the defense and to start the season, the defensive improvement was all everyone was talking about a couple of weeks ago.

The team has lost 15ppg  - for a team that struggles offensively,  it's a really big deal. Not having Lovett on the court completely changes the offense.

I am not defending the coaching staff because you are only as good as your record and I do think a Mike Rice type coach would really help.The team has not played well of late but even when they played well (Seton Hall & Creighton) they are coming up short. I am not sure how the fans expect a team to replace the production of their second best player. I do think its ridiculous that they have not been a little more upfront about the extent of Lovett's injury.

There is ZERO chance of the school making a change at year end and people saying Mullin should resign are insane. He is an incredibly competitive person and losing bothers him 10x more than the players.

How bout this, late in first half we get up by 6 and momentum is shifting heavy in our direction. Ponds makes a great defensive play at half court, knocks the ball loose. From there it looks like he got fouled, no call. Then gtown player kicks ball, no call. What should have been at the least our ball out of bonds with a chande to increase lead to 8, instead it’s gtowns ball and they end half on 6-0 run. Momentum over. Last part of game. We tie it up and our next possession Simon got hacked TWICE at mid court and ends up turning it over for a layup. Momentum gone. Lastly, gtown got two foul calls on jumpshots throughout  the game, refs decide not to call the most important one of all on the last play of the game?

To me this is one of the biggest plays of the game, complete momentum shift. Clearly kick ball but not according to the three blind mice.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 10, 2018, 08:32:52 AM

How bout this, late in first half we get up by 6 and momentum is shifting heavy in our direction. Ponds makes a great defensive play at half court, knocks the ball loose. From there it looks like he got fouled, no call. Then gtown player kicks ball, no call. What should have been at the least our ball out of bonds with a chande to increase lead to 8, instead it’s gtowns ball and they end half on 6-0 run. Momentum over. Last part of game. We tie it up and our next possession Simon got hacked TWICE at mid court and ends up turning it over for a layup. Momentum gone. Lastly, gtown got two foul calls on jumpshots throughout  the game, refs decide not to call the most important one of all on the last play of the game?

Ponds hasn't been getting the whistle all year. He's routinely knocked to the ground. Simon won't get many calls away from the basket since he looks so awkward with the ball.

He also looks for the foul way too much. He does a lot of acting.

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2018, 08:37:34 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 10, 2018, 08:32:52 AM

How bout this, late in first half we get up by 6 and momentum is shifting heavy in our direction. Ponds makes a great defensive play at half court, knocks the ball loose. From there it looks like he got fouled, no call. Then gtown player kicks ball, no call. What should have been at the least our ball out of bonds with a chande to increase lead to 8, instead it’s gtowns ball and they end half on 6-0 run. Momentum over. Last part of game. We tie it up and our next possession Simon got hacked TWICE at mid court and ends up turning it over for a layup. Momentum gone. Lastly, gtown got two foul calls on jumpshots throughout  the game, refs decide not to call the most important one of all on the last play of the game?

Ponds hasn't been getting the whistle all year. He's routinely knocked to the ground. Simon won't get many calls away from the basket since he looks so awkward with the ball.

He also looks for the foul way too much. He does a lot of acting.

I thought he got fouled on a bunch of his drives.Now would he have hit the FT's?

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 10, 2018, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2018, 09:42:17 AM

Even when / if Lovett comes back going to take a couple games to get his game back. And I like Lovett but it is not like we are getting Marcus Hatten or Walter Berry back. No depth, no inside scoring and bad shooting team. Margin for error is real small. Like I said I expect us to win a couple but 0-18 would not shock me. If we get to 500 like Mase said they should throw Mullin a parade. 

Not get to 500, play 500 rest of the way with LoVett.

Lets break it down like Francesa used to do:
Nova-L
@Xavier-L
@Gtown-Now here is a game you can point to but I do not like ourr chances on the road vs anyone. Think it will be close but we don't win close games.Going with L
Creighton-L
@Butler-L
Xavier -L
Duke-um L
@Nova-L
Marquette-Don't like this matchup and at this point by my calculations we will be 10-15/ 0-12 coming off 2 brutal losses in a row. I got an L
@Depaul-Again on road and they smoked us. But I am giving therm this  one. W
@Marquette-L
SH-L
Butler-We play our best game of season and some people post about how maybe just maybe we win BET after the W.
@Providence-Back to Earth L

So I have us at 12-19 / 2-16 going into BET
Maybe we win @Gtown and vs Marquette at home? But I have them beating Butler for no rhyme or reason so in the end I am going with 2 wins.

Problem with this is what would you have predicted for first five games?

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2018, 10:45:03 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 10, 2018, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2018, 09:42:17 AM

Even when / if Lovett comes back going to take a couple games to get his game back. And I like Lovett but it is not like we are getting Marcus Hatten or Walter Berry back. No depth, no inside scoring and bad shooting team. Margin for error is real small. Like I said I expect us to win a couple but 0-18 would not shock me. If we get to 500 like Mase said they should throw Mullin a parade. 

Not get to 500, play 500 rest of the way with LoVett.

Lets break it down like Francesa used to do:
Nova-L
@Xavier-L
@Gtown-Now here is a game you can point to but I do not like ourr chances on the road vs anyone. Think it will be close but we don't win close games.Going with L
Creighton-L
@Butler-L
Xavier -L
Duke-um L
@Nova-L
Marquette-Don't like this matchup and at this point by my calculations we will be 10-15/ 0-12 coming off 2 brutal losses in a row. I got an L
@Depaul-Again on road and they smoked us. But I am giving therm this  one. W
@Marquette-L
SH-L
Butler-We play our best game of season and some people post about how maybe just maybe we win BET after the W.
@Providence-Back to Earth L

So I have us at 12-19 / 2-16 going into BET
Maybe we win @Gtown and vs Marquette at home? But I have them beating Butler for no rhyme or reason so in the end I am going with 2 wins.

Problem with this is what would you have predicted for first five games?

Lovett thing killed them. Not same team even if he comes back. I predicted 9-9 in BE.
Listen I hope I am wrong and they make a run, play in NIT and set themselves up for next year.
I agree with PMG no matter what happens Mullin won't be fired or quit but next year will be huuuuge for him and maybe even his legacy.

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2018, 10:45:03 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 10, 2018, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2018, 09:42:17 AM

Even when / if Lovett comes back going to take a couple games to get his game back. And I like Lovett but it is not like we are getting Marcus Hatten or Walter Berry back. No depth, no inside scoring and bad shooting team. Margin for error is real small. Like I said I expect us to win a couple but 0-18 would not shock me. If we get to 500 like Mase said they should throw Mullin a parade. 

Not get to 500, play 500 rest of the way with LoVett.

Lets break it down like Francesa used to do:
Nova-L
@Xavier-L
@Gtown-Now here is a game you can point to but I do not like ourr chances on the road vs anyone. Think it will be close but we don't win close games.Going with L
Creighton-L
@Butler-L
Xavier -L
Duke-um L
@Nova-L
Marquette-Don't like this matchup and at this point by my calculations we will be 10-15/ 0-12 coming off 2 brutal losses in a row. I got an L
@Depaul-Again on road and they smoked us. But I am giving therm this  one. W
@Marquette-L
SH-L
Butler-We play our best game of season and some people post about how maybe just maybe we win BET after the W.
@Providence-Back to Earth L

So I have us at 12-19 / 2-16 going into BET
Maybe we win @Gtown and vs Marquette at home? But I have them beating Butler for no rhyme or reason so in the end I am going with 2 wins.

Problem with this is what would you have predicted for first five games?

And speaking of things no one could have predicted, seriously what the hell happened to Yakwe? I mean to me that is up there with who shot Kennedy and the Bermuda Triangle. Much to his chagrin I dragged Pops to the game last night. I had a 5 minute conversation with him explaining that Yakwe was actually pretty good his Frosh year. Pops didn't believe me. Some other ST John's fan sitting behind me happened to hear the conversation and backed up my claim. Just as Yakwe fumbled around in the paint. My dad did not believe guy behind me either.

At the beginning of the season, the team was playing solid basketball with a full compliment of players and they were never going to an offensive force..   last season everyone complained about the defense and to start the season, the defensive improvement was all everyone was talking about a couple of weeks ago.

The team has lost 15ppg  - for a team that struggles offensively,  it's a really big deal. Not having Lovett on the court completely changes the offense.

I am not defending the coaching staff because you are only as good as your record and I do think a Mike Rice type coach would really help.The team has not played well of late but even when they played well (Seton Hall & Creighton) they are coming up short. I am not sure how the fans expect a team to replace the production of their second best player. I do think its ridiculous that they have not been a little more upfront about the extent of Lovett's injury.

There is ZERO chance of the school making a change at year end and people saying Mullin should resign are insane. He is an incredibly competitive person and losing bothers him 10x more than the players.

Not trying to be disrespectful towards you or anyone on board. But if coach Mullin was so competitive why is st. Jean doing all coaching? Usually when things go bad the head coach takes a bigger role.
Mullin great player. Mullin seems like a great guy. As a player hard worker. As a coach- does he recruit? Does he coach?
We can argue about how talented this team is, we shouldn’t be dead last

I've been pretty negative, so here is a little hope. St. John's has to be the most uniquely positioned team to make a run at the tournament after starting out 0-5 in conference play.

(1) We VERY likely will end up with the top SOS in the country (currently #9 by ESPN and #14 by realtime RPI)

(2) Even though I can't even look at him right now, we supposedly get our second best player back in time to take on the #1 team in the country Saturday at home and they are only playing 7 guys.

(3) No team from a major conference has been left out of the tournament with an RPI better than 49 and there is virtually no way St. John's can win 8 or more games without achieving an RPI inside that mark.

(4) 8-6 puts us on the bubble and a win in the BET puts us on the right side of it. That's probably the 7/10 game against DePaul. Really not that crazy.

Even with plenty of stiff competition, this might be the most insane thing ever posted on this board. It would be a miracle if we are even in the discussion for the NIT by the end of the season let alone the NCAA tournament

WASJU, remember when Yakwes struggles were pinned on Sima?  Undersized front court players need to make up for their height by excelling in other areas. I thought it would be rebouding but despite his elite athleticism its not the case. He can’t dribble, pass, or shoot at a division two level. And his instincts unfortunately can only improve so much. In a limited role with 4 basketball players around him he can contribute.

Quote from: pmg911 on January 10, 2018, 10:48:27 AM

At the beginning of the season, the team was playing solid basketball with a full compliment of players and they were never going to an offensive force..   last season everyone complained about the defense and to start the season, the defensive improvement was all everyone was talking about a couple of weeks ago.

The team has lost 15ppg  - for a team that struggles offensively,  it's a really big deal. Not having Lovett on the court completely changes the offense.

I am not defending the coaching staff because you are only as good as your record and I do think a Mike Rice type coach would really help.The team has not played well of late but even when they played well (Seton Hall & Creighton) they are coming up short. I am not sure how the fans expect a team to replace the production of their second best player. I do think its ridiculous that they have not been a little more upfront about the extent of Lovett's injury.

There is ZERO chance of the school making a change at year end and people saying Mullin should resign are insane. He is an incredibly competitive person and losing bothers him 10x more than the players.

Not trying to be disrespectful towards you or anyone on board. But if coach Mullin was so competitive why is st. Jean doing all coaching? Usually when things go bad the head coach takes a bigger role.
Mullin great player. Mullin seems like a great guy. As a player hard worker. As a coach- does he recruit? Does he coach?
We can argue about how talented this team is, we shouldn’t be dead last

I think Mullin's decision to appear hands off was a huge error on his part. Maybe other coaches act this way, but because he is Chris Mullin and never did it before, most of us paid more attention to his sideline demeanor? But as I stated earlier I was right behind Gtown bench and Ewing was much more involved with everything that was going on.