Owens Leaving

I could understand Owens leaving if he doesn’t like the Mullin system. What I can’t understand is his fathers criticism that Owens isn’t getting enough shots. IMO it would behoove Owens to learn how to rebound better and work on put backs and an inside game.

Do you see Mr. Ponds, Mr. Simon ( who posts on sju twitter) or even Mr. Lovett criticize any of the other kids on the team on an open forum? Then he is campaigning with fans about his son getting only 6 shots per game. It's a joke. If I was Shamorie's Dad we would've had words already.

His son isn't that great. When he goes to Maryland and puts up the same #'s he did here let's talk.

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

No team. His HS coach most likely didn’t let him either. You guys really think he is calling up schools like Maryland and saying I want to come in as a senior and be the focal point of your offense or atleast one of the top options?
It doesn’t make sense, so maybe it’s not true.

Quote from: ras on March 24, 2018, 01:38:24 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

No team. His HS coach most likely didn’t let him either. You guys really think he is calling up schools like Maryland and saying I want to come in as a senior and be the focal point of your offense or atleast one of the top options?
It doesn’t make sense, so maybe it’s not true.

His dad literally said on twitter 6 shots isn't enough for him.

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2018, 02:23:49 PM

Quote from: ras on March 24, 2018, 01:38:24 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

No team. His HS coach most likely didn’t let him either. You guys really think he is calling up schools like Maryland and saying I want to come in as a senior and be the focal point of your offense or atleast one of the top options?
It doesn’t make sense, so maybe it’s not true.

His dad literally said on twitter 6 shots isn't enough for him.

It's enough for me.  SJU was 1-5 in games where Owens took more than ten shots and 4-7 in games where he scored in double figures. In wins he took 5.8 shots per game and in losses he took 8 shots per game. And to put that in perspective he was the only player on SJU to shoot > 50 percent from the floor and yet the more he shot the worse the team did. Obviously that's only one variable among 20  and no doubt everyone was worse in losses than in wins and correlation is not causation. But anecdotally his stats suggest that the offense was more efficient when Owens was less involved - besides his shooting stats he averaged half as many assists as black hole Bashir Ahmed and as many TOs - which reinforces what's evident to the eye: Owens is soft around the basket, can't create for himself and is charitably a haphazard shooter.

 

Quote from: Classof2013 on March 24, 2018, 02:33:20 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2018, 02:23:49 PM

Quote from: ras on March 24, 2018, 01:38:24 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

No team. His HS coach most likely didn’t let him either. You guys really think he is calling up schools like Maryland and saying I want to come in as a senior and be the focal point of your offense or atleast one of the top options?
It doesn’t make sense, so maybe it’s not true.

His dad literally said on twitter 6 shots isn't enough for him.

It's enough for me.  SJU was 1-5 in games where Owens took more than ten shots and 4-7 in games where he scored in double figures. In wins he took 5.8 shots per game and in losses he took 8 shots per game. And to put that in perspective he was the only player on SJU to shoot > 50 percent from the floor and yet the more he shot the worse the team did. Obviously that's only one variable among 20  and no doubt everyone was worse in losses than in wins and correlation is not causation. But anecdotally his stats suggest that the offense was more efficient when Owens was less involved - besides his shooting stats he averaged half as many assists as black hole Bashir Ahmed and as many TOs - which reinforces what's evident to the eye: Owens is soft around the basket, can't create for himself and is charitably a haphazard shooter.

Losing a player before what would be their final season is bad for our program. Don’t you agree?

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

I don’t think that it was Mullin’s plan or anyone’s plan to make Tariq a 3 point shooter. What other options were there? The team had 8 players. Two of them were two of the most offensively challenged players we’ve ever had.

Should he continue to work on it, I don’t see why Tariq couldn’t be a serviceable 3 point shooter.
The much more reasonable criticism has to do with his complete lack of a post game, and unwillingness or inability to box out. He has a sneaky bounce but he’s just as weak physically as he appears to be.

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2018, 04:41:28 PM

Quote from: Classof2013 on March 24, 2018, 02:33:20 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2018, 02:23:49 PM

Quote from: ras on March 24, 2018, 01:38:24 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

No team. His HS coach most likely didn’t let him either. You guys really think he is calling up schools like Maryland and saying I want to come in as a senior and be the focal point of your offense or atleast one of the top options?
It doesn’t make sense, so maybe it’s not true.

His dad literally said on twitter 6 shots isn't enough for him.

It's enough for me.  SJU was 1-5 in games where Owens took more than ten shots and 4-7 in games where he scored in double figures. In wins he took 5.8 shots per game and in losses he took 8 shots per game. And to put that in perspective he was the only player on SJU to shoot > 50 percent from the floor and yet the more he shot the worse the team did. Obviously that's only one variable among 20  and no doubt everyone was worse in losses than in wins and correlation is not causation. But anecdotally his stats suggest that the offense was more efficient when Owens was less involved - besides his shooting stats he averaged half as many assists as black hole Bashir Ahmed and as many TOs - which reinforces what's evident to the eye: Owens is soft around the basket, can't create for himself and is charitably a haphazard shooter.

Losing a player before what would be their final season is bad for our program. Don’t you agree?

I absolutely agree.

Tariq Owens is not very good at basketball and his father is delusional. Don't you agree?

I don’t think that it was Mullin’s plan or anyone’s plan to make Tariq a 3 point shooter.

When you say anyone you exclude the pater familias, because TO's father thinks TO is a 3-point shooter and deserves more three point shots than he's getting. According to TO's father who qualifies as anyone TO should shoot every time he touches the ball.

Quote from: Poison on March 24, 2018, 05:10:23 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2018, 04:41:28 PM

Quote from: Classof2013 on March 24, 2018, 02:33:20 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2018, 02:23:49 PM

Quote from: ras on March 24, 2018, 01:38:24 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

No team. His HS coach most likely didn’t let him either. You guys really think he is calling up schools like Maryland and saying I want to come in as a senior and be the focal point of your offense or atleast one of the top options?
It doesn’t make sense, so maybe it’s not true.

His dad literally said on twitter 6 shots isn't enough for him.

It's enough for me.  SJU was 1-5 in games where Owens took more than ten shots and 4-7 in games where he scored in double figures. In wins he took 5.8 shots per game and in losses he took 8 shots per game. And to put that in perspective he was the only player on SJU to shoot > 50 percent from the floor and yet the more he shot the worse the team did. Obviously that's only one variable among 20  and no doubt everyone was worse in losses than in wins and correlation is not causation. But anecdotally his stats suggest that the offense was more efficient when Owens was less involved - besides his shooting stats he averaged half as many assists as black hole Bashir Ahmed and as many TOs - which reinforces what's evident to the eye: Owens is soft around the basket, can't create for himself and is charitably a haphazard shooter.

Losing a player before what would be their final season is bad for our program. Don’t you agree?

I absolutely agree.

Tariq Owens is not very good at basketball and his father is delusional. Don't you agree?

I agree that Tariq Owens isn’t very good. How often do we have a very good player before they become a senior? How often do we have more than one at a time? D’Angelo Harrison was very good. Shamorie Ponds is very good. Tariq is fair to pretty good at best, and for a staff that has struggled to hold the interest of the players they’ve recruited, this situation is yet another stain in a long line of break ups.

Tariq’s dad may have unrealistic or even lousy ideas on how his son should be used within an offense. Mullin went into his third season with a twig as his #1 rebounder and his only center. I don’t think Tariq’s father handled this very well, although I don’t think he handled it horribly either. At the time, Mullin had lost 11 straight games. He needed to hear it. He deserved to hear it, and he deserves to keep hearing it.

Quote from: Poison on March 24, 2018, 05:18:57 PM

I don’t think that it was Mullin’s plan or anyone’s plan to make Tariq a 3 point shooter.

When you say anyone you exclude the pater familias, because TO's father thinks TO is a 3-point shooter and deserves more three point shots than he's getting. According to TO's father who qualifies as anyone TO should shoot every time he touches the ball.

Does he deserve more three point shots? No. Is that what his father said should be happening? No.

Even if Tariq’s dad did say that, a fair point can be made that his ideas are no worse than Mullin’s.

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2018, 06:51:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 24, 2018, 05:10:23 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2018, 04:41:28 PM

Quote from: Classof2013 on March 24, 2018, 02:33:20 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2018, 02:23:49 PM

Quote from: ras on March 24, 2018, 01:38:24 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on March 24, 2018, 01:35:16 PM

Some team that wants him is going to lie and tell him he'll get all the shots he can.  Once he's in the door if the team decides to use him differently Tariq will unfortunately have no choice but to stay because he'll be out of options.  Love the kid's hustle and work ethic but I think he's making a mistake (not that it matters, because all that really counts here is what Mr. Owens and Tariq want to do).

I agree. What high major program is going to let him hoist shots from the perimeter. He’s not that good of a shooter.

No team. His HS coach most likely didn’t let him either. You guys really think he is calling up schools like Maryland and saying I want to come in as a senior and be the focal point of your offense or atleast one of the top options?
It doesn’t make sense, so maybe it’s not true.

His dad literally said on twitter 6 shots isn't enough for him.

It's enough for me.  SJU was 1-5 in games where Owens took more than ten shots and 4-7 in games where he scored in double figures. In wins he took 5.8 shots per game and in losses he took 8 shots per game. And to put that in perspective he was the only player on SJU to shoot > 50 percent from the floor and yet the more he shot the worse the team did. Obviously that's only one variable among 20  and no doubt everyone was worse in losses than in wins and correlation is not causation. But anecdotally his stats suggest that the offense was more efficient when Owens was less involved - besides his shooting stats he averaged half as many assists as black hole Bashir Ahmed and as many TOs - which reinforces what's evident to the eye: Owens is soft around the basket, can't create for himself and is charitably a haphazard shooter.

Losing a player before what would be their final season is bad for our program. Don’t you agree?

I absolutely agree.

Tariq Owens is not very good at basketball and his father is delusional. Don't you agree?

I agree that Tariq Owens isn’t very good. How often do we have a very good player before they become a senior? How often do we have more than one at a time? D’Angelo Harrison was very good. Shamorie Ponds is very good. Tariq is fair to pretty good at best, and for a staff that has struggled to hold the interest of the players they’ve recruited, this situation is yet another stain in a long line of break ups.

Tariq’s dad may have unrealistic or even lousy ideas on how his son should be used within an offense. Mullin went into his third season with a twig as his #1 rebounder and his only center. I don’t think Tariq’s father handled this very well, although I don’t think he handled it horribly either. At the time, Mullin had lost 11 straight games. He needed to hear it. He deserved to hear it, and he deserves to keep hearing it.

You employed  a lot of characters to say nothing. TO's father has unrealistic expectations for his son. Mullin did a poor job relying on TO's father's son. Neither of them handled the situation well. No good will come from this for either party. 'Everyone has failed each other' is 16 characters give or take not counting the spaces. No good will come to anyone from any of this is about the same.

How about some music instead, this is IMO a good song andi ts not even the weasels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYsMjEeEg4g

the reason he shot a good percentage were that he either dunked (what he could catch) and shot wide open jumpers (because opponents largely let him as they doubled others)  He is a zero offensively, poor hands, no strength, no inside moves.

Quote from: we are sju on March 23, 2018, 05:08:48 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 23, 2018, 04:38:52 PM

Quote from: we are sju on March 23, 2018, 04:36:19 PM

Quote from: paultzman on March 23, 2018, 04:23:10 PM

Evan Daniels

St. John’s grad transfer Tariq Owens will take a visit to Maryland on the 27th & 28th, per a source. Owens averaged 8.4 PPG & 5.9 RPG last season.

Matt driving him

Crab Cakes are good. Maybe he can put the weight on that way

You have made it clear that you are a top athlete. For you gaining 30 pounds of muscle is easy. Might not be possible for others.

Despite playing a sport and all the sex I was having in college I was still able to gain weight.

Baseball is a sport, barely and sex with yourself doesn't count.

Good looking guy, varsity athlete, alcohol, drunk girls away from home, co ed dorms, alcohol.  Good Times. Sex with myself  while always fun was secondary until I got married and had kids and then it made a spectacular comeback

Quote from: we are sju on March 23, 2018, 03:50:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 23, 2018, 03:23:32 PM

Quote from: QuanMan on March 23, 2018, 01:54:23 PM

Poison- There could be 4-5 unknown incoming recruits signed this Spring. I think Yakwe's transfer is inevitable based off the 2nd half of the season benching Mullin gave him. If Trimble made it out of the end of season review process alive, he's staying with weight loss/dedication & development contingencies, which I don't mind.

The staff by now has a firm grasp of how many open scholarships they're entering the Spring Signing Period with. Matt was on the trails at the PSAL playoffs the very next night after the Xavier loss. I'm hoping that type of consistency has been carried out over the past 2.5 weeks by every single staff member. There is no time for vacations when you're in this situation entering Year4.

Ideal Spring outlook would be signing Mike Rice for the Team Rio pipeline. Then landing 3 immediate contributors to next season's core via 2 grad transfers plus a 2018 diamond in the rough HS Senior and a elite sit out transfer for 2019. Spring 2018 haul would include 2 bigs and a swingman.

We're losing players at an alarming rate. It doesn't seem likely that we're going to land a big man when they didn't bother to land one last off season. I'd be pleasantly surprised if that changed. In addition, Sima, Williams and Owens, challenged as they were all left the program. Both Sima and Owens made it clear that they wanted to more involved in the offense. I can't imagine that this isn't affecting how recruits see us.

So you think Chris Mullin should have involved Sima and Owens more in the offense. LOL
I think you need a nap.

I can always use a nap, but you’re not following me. Mullin hasn’t brought in a post player that he’s done anything with. Yakwe was the only true power forward and he went from top 100 recruit to all rookie team to playing behind a walk on. Why would any big man play for Mullin?

I think roster construction and overall recruiting is a valid Mullin complaint. Hardly anyone does though because then that implicates everyone's favorite short guy with a long name.
Unless Mullin hypnotized Yawke into stinking not sure you can give him the blame for that. Most bizarre regression I have ever seen.
Sima and Owens were recruited to play a role. Both had an incredible irrational opinion of their games.

Quote from: Poison on March 23, 2018, 06:25:04 PM

Quote from: we are sju on March 23, 2018, 03:50:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 23, 2018, 03:23:32 PM

Quote from: QuanMan on March 23, 2018, 01:54:23 PM

Poison- There could be 4-5 unknown incoming recruits signed this Spring. I think Yakwe's transfer is inevitable based off the 2nd half of the season benching Mullin gave him. If Trimble made it out of the end of season review process alive, he's staying with weight loss/dedication & development contingencies, which I don't mind.

The staff by now has a firm grasp of how many open scholarships they're entering the Spring Signing Period with. Matt was on the trails at the PSAL playoffs the very next night after the Xavier loss. I'm hoping that type of consistency has been carried out over the past 2.5 weeks by every single staff member. There is no time for vacations when you're in this situation entering Year4.

Ideal Spring outlook would be signing Mike Rice for the Team Rio pipeline. Then landing 3 immediate contributors to next season's core via 2 grad transfers plus a 2018 diamond in the rough HS Senior and a elite sit out transfer for 2019. Spring 2018 haul would include 2 bigs and a swingman.

We're losing players at an alarming rate. It doesn't seem likely that we're going to land a big man when they didn't bother to land one last off season. I'd be pleasantly surprised if that changed. In addition, Sima, Williams and Owens, challenged as they were all left the program. Both Sima and Owens made it clear that they wanted to more involved in the offense. I can't imagine that this isn't affecting how recruits see us.

So you think Chris Mullin should have involved Sima and Owens more in the offense. LOL
I think you need a nap.

I can always use a nap, but you’re not following me. Mullin hasn’t brought in a post player that he’s done anything with. Yakwe was the only true power forward and he went from top 100 recruit to all rookie team to playing behind a walk on. Why would any big man play for Mullin?

I think roster construction and overall recruiting is a valid Mullin complaint. Hardly anyone does though because then that implicates everyone's favorite short guy with a long name.
Unless Mullin hypnotized Yawke into stinking not sure you can give him the blame for that. Most bizarre regression I have ever seen.
Sima and Owens were recruited to play a role. Both had an incredible irrational opinion of their games.

If the staff keeps bringing in players who are lazy, delusional or simply not interested in playing for St.John's it's not on the player.

Williams, Sima, Yakwe, Ellison, Freudenberg, Brown, Wilson, Owens etc - Different people. Different reasons for not working out. One commonality.

FWIW, I was told that Yakwe was legitimately hurt, and that's why he didn't play or play well on the rare occasions that he got burn during the season.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on March 24, 2018, 11:24:59 AM

Quote from: we are sju on March 23, 2018, 05:08:48 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 23, 2018, 04:38:52 PM

Quote from: we are sju on March 23, 2018, 04:36:19 PM

Quote from: paultzman on March 23, 2018, 04:23:10 PM

Evan Daniels

St. John’s grad transfer Tariq Owens will take a visit to Maryland on the 27th & 28th, per a source. Owens averaged 8.4 PPG & 5.9 RPG last season.

Matt driving him

Crab Cakes are good. Maybe he can put the weight on that way

You have made it clear that you are a top athlete. For you gaining 30 pounds of muscle is easy. Might not be possible for others.

Despite playing a sport and all the sex I was having in college I was still able to gain weight.

Baseball is a sport, barely and sex with yourself doesn't count.

Good looking guy, varsity athlete, alcohol, drunk girls away from home, co ed dorms, alcohol.  Good Times. Sex with myself  while always fun was secondary until I got married and had kids and then it made a spectacular comeback

I was an athlete in college as well.  Bowling and ultimate frisbee.  Does that count?

Tariq shooting uncharacteristic 3's and thinking he was a SF mid-season had to be apart of this-

In the three weeks that followed, St John’s secured wins against Marquette, DePaul and Butler. They went from a team that couldn’t win a single game in conference play  to defeating some of the best teams in the country.

“We got off to a good start and went on a losing streak, part of it was selfishness because players didn’t trust each other,” said senior guard Bashir Ahmed, who has started in both years since transferring to St. John’s. “We weren’t playing together as a team.”