Alaska Shootout Champs!

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2010, 02:49:56 PM »

Foad

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2010, 02:53:32 PM »
Foad I think for me personally was seeing all the pieces of the puzzle fitting together. It wasn't the prettiest game or any stats that left you in awe but the team came together and made plays when they needed to.

I do notice little improvements. The guys set their feet while shooting much better, passes are quicker, tempo is pushed much quicker after getting the rebound, conscious effort to get contact when going to the rim.

Now there are still things that need a lot of work to be successful in the Big East this season. Spacing is still an issue at times, changing speeds and coming off screens in half court, defensive awareness in the zone, over committing in the zone, defensive rebounding in the zone picking up a body to box out, free throw shooting.

Individually Boothe/Stith have cut down on turnovers, Burrell is rebounding all the time, Horne and Hardy are attacking the basket and getting to the line, Brownlee realizes he can get to the basket at will.

DJ needs to figure out how he fits in, Evans needs to wake up let go of his ego and contribute.

When you put it this way I agree with nearly all of it (eg Horne getting to the line is not necessarily a good thing). The biggest thing for me is the tempo - forcing an offensively challenged team to play a pound the ball half court offense was nice personic; they should have been running up and down the floor two years ago. Clearly there's been a coaching upgrade and clearly that's making a difference, both in the player's mindsets and in the way they're being used, and not used. I guess I just don't think they played very well yesterday and don't understand where the effusiveness is coming from, other than that we miracled it out.

 

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2010, 03:00:45 PM »
When you put it this way I agree with nearly all of it (eg Horne getting to the line is not necessarily a good thing). The biggest thing for me is the tempo - forcing an offensively challenged team to play a pound the ball half court offense was nice personic; they should have been running up and down the floor two years ago. Clearly there's been a coaching upgrade and clearly that's making a difference, both in the player's mindsets and in the way they're being used, and not used. I guess I just don't think they played very well yesterday and don't understand where the effusiveness is coming from, other than that we miracled it out.

I agree with you...I think we saw the same game.  But the fact that we miracled it out was the big thing.   This team usually falls flat in the last 5 minutes and the opposite happened last night.
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TONYD3

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2010, 04:55:34 PM »
At the half we were down 10 and i thought we were the better team. We had better chances then ASU we as usual didnt convert them. We missed shots we should have hit. They hit a few contested 3s. We missed way to many free throws. In the second half there was no miracle. We are more athletic and played more physical and wore ASU down. It might be ugly but it was effective this tournament. Will it work against Bug East teams? I dont know.
 2nd half adjustments were important but we also got to the line and hit free throws. We were not lucky last night we just out worked them and converted when we had to. Not a perfect game by any means. This is not a perfect team. Guys have to step up (Brownlee) and they did last night.

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2010, 07:34:33 PM »
I watched the ASU game today. Great win. Guys never stopped fighting. The defense was fantatics (except for late rotations at 3pt line). I see some say we were lucky....sometimes you make your own luck. Those turnovers late were forced by constant pressure. ASU lacked the ballhanders to break the pressure...that's not our problem. Stith and Brownlee were fantastic. When we needed baskets Brownlee delivered and kept us in the game early. Boothe and Burrell were solid. Boothe hit open shots and Burrell had strong moves to the basket down low (did not always score). Burrell blocked out on several occassions so team mates could get the rebound. Horne defense was excellent. He as all over the place and scoring in spots. Like the way Horne and Hardy took the ball to the rim and got fouled. We have a good team that has time to get better. Problem is it looks like the Big East is loaded again. Scoring draughts are going to kill us in BE play but our defense will keep us in some games. That first round victory set us up for the Championship win. This coaching staff has been amazing. They are feeling their way thru which rotations 2 use and in the end I believe they will find the right mix hopefully before BE play. I am very proud of the effort!! We were down and fought back!!

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2010, 09:00:28 PM »
- Another single digit turnover total at 8.  And we're a running team.  I hope this continues all year long.

- Hollywood shows creativity and a lot of moxie with some of the lineups he comes up with:

Malik II - 5 9
Malik III - 5 11
D-buckets - 6 2
Hilton 6 3
JB2 - 6 7

And these are their phony listed heights.

This lilliputian lineup was on the floor for a decent amount of time and during ritical stretches.  I defy any D1 team to play a smaller lineup than this this season.  Remarkable that this was effective.

- I hope Lavin doesn't get too comfortable having Prez on the bench this much.  Playing DJ less than 30 min. per would be a mistake in the long run.

thetruth8734

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2010, 09:06:36 PM »
Great win last night. This could be a pretty good win for us too. I read on ESPN insider that many experts expect ASU to be a good team this year predicting they will finish in 3rd in the Pac-10 behind Washington and Arizona. I know the Pac 10 is down this year, but still if ASU can put together a decent season this could be a good win for us down the road.

Foad

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2010, 10:01:03 PM »
I see some say we were lucky....sometimes you make your own luck.

Lucky as in fortunate. Oooo what a lucky man he was lucky. Just got lucky lucky. Not lucky as in occuring randomly or by chance, as in blind luck or lucky guess. We were lucky meaning fortunate to win the game, because most of the game we played like crap, and most of the time when you play like crap you lose.

Poison

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2010, 10:29:56 PM »
"it's bad luck to be behind at the end of the  game"

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2010, 11:19:49 PM »
Foad I understand what you are saying but......it was not luck that ASU did not have ballhandlers and could not handle our pressure. It was not luck that ASU turned the ball over in the second half. It is not luck that ASU is an avg to below avg PAC10 team. Not luck that our staff out coached ASU coaches in the second half. It was not luck that we outworked and outhustled them in the second half. It not luck when u make plays when it counts. ASU had ample time to undue all of our luck but they couldn't. The Duke Latner shot to beat UK back in the day was luck not the STJ win IMOP.

Foad

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2010, 09:00:30 AM »
Foad I understand what you are saying but......it was not luck that ASU did not have ballhandlers and could not handle our pressure. It was not luck that ASU turned the ball over in the second half. It is not luck that ASU is an avg to below avg PAC10 team. Not luck that our staff out coached ASU coaches in the second half. It was not luck that we outworked and outhustled them in the second half. It not luck when u make plays when it counts. ASU had ample time to undue all of our luck but they couldn't.

Again, I didn't say it was "luck." I said we were lucky, where lucky meaning fortunate. So making a long list of things that weren't "luck" is pretty pointless, because I didn't say that SJ won because of "luck." I said we lucky to win, meaning that we were fortunate to win, because we could have lost, because we did not play well most of the game. But if you're going to completely ignore my painstaking explanation, and it seems that you are, you might want to at least mention a few things that were "luck", like Stith's banked in three pointer from half court and Hardy's four point play where he threw himself into the defender and chucked the ball at the basket. But really there's no need to, because as I said, I didn't use the term lucky to mean "an unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that causes an event to result one way rather than another"; rather, I used it to mean "having had good fortune," which is a completely different meaning. Because I understand that we won the game because we scored more points than the other team and that our scoring more points than the other team was not the result of the Goddess Fortuna spinning a Boethian wheel on Mount Olmypus, but rather was the result of a series of quite logical and orderly occurrences that occured on the basketball court in Alaska. It's like if I said to you "Gee you're lucky that your wife has such a nice rack" that wouldn't mean that I thought that you were walking a long one day and you random wandered into a church and just happened to marry a flatchested complete stranger who then several months later happened to miraculously sprout a set of splendiferous funbags; it'd mean that you were blessed to have a nice set of toys to keep you occupied on cold winter nights. See the difference? Of course you do.

Quote
The Duke Latner shot to beat UK back in the day was luck not the STJ win IMOP.

As much as it pains me to say it, Xtian Laettner was one of the greatest college BB players I ever saw. That shot wasn't lucky, it was diabolical and inevitable.



Tha Kid

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2010, 09:06:20 AM »

I hated duke back then and I still hate laettner, but that shot was not due to luck.  It was a great move and he drilled it. 

Similar to foad's definition, duke was "lucky" that uk didn't guard the in bounds pass (as in fortunate), and lucky (as in fortunate) laettner was not ejected from the game by the refs for stomping on a uk players chest, but the shot was not due to luck.
"I drink and I know things"

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2010, 09:32:01 AM »

I hated duke back then and I still hate laettner, but that shot was not due to luck.  It was a great move and he drilled it. 

Similar to foad's definition, duke was "lucky" that uk didn't guard the in bounds pass (as in fortunate), and lucky (as in fortunate) laettner was not ejected from the game by the refs for stomping on a uk players chest, but the shot was not due to luck.

Good points

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2010, 10:38:42 AM »
Foad I understand what you are saying but......it was not luck that ASU did not have ballhandlers and could not handle our pressure. It was not luck that ASU turned the ball over in the second half. It is not luck that ASU is an avg to below avg PAC10 team. Not luck that our staff out coached ASU coaches in the second half. It was not luck that we outworked and outhustled them in the second half. It not luck when u make plays when it counts. ASU had ample time to undue all of our luck but they couldn't.

Again, I didn't say it was "luck." I said we were lucky, where lucky meaning fortunate. So making a long list of things that weren't "luck" is pretty pointless, because I didn't say that SJ won because of "luck." I said we lucky to win, meaning that we were fortunate to win, because we could have lost, because we did not play well most of the game. But if you're going to completely ignore my painstaking explanation, and it seems that you are, you might want to at least mention a few things that were "luck", like Stith's banked in three pointer from half court and Hardy's four point play where he threw himself into the defender and chucked the ball at the basket. But really there's no need to, because as I said, I didn't use the term lucky to mean "an unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that causes an event to result one way rather than another"; rather, I used it to mean "having had good fortune," which is a completely different meaning. Because I understand that we won the game because we scored more points than the other team and that our scoring more points than the other team was not the result of the Goddess Fortuna spinning a Boethian wheel on Mount Olmypus, but rather was the result of a series of quite logical and orderly occurrences that occured on the basketball court in Alaska. It's like if I said to you "Gee you're lucky that your wife has such a nice rack" that wouldn't mean that I thought that you were walking a long one day and you random wandered into a church and just happened to marry a flatchested complete stranger who then several months later happened to miraculously sprout a set of splendiferous funbags; it'd mean that you were blessed to have a nice set of toys to keep you occupied on cold winter nights. See the difference? Of course you do.

Quote
The Duke Latner shot to beat UK back in the day was luck not the STJ win IMOP.

As much as it pains me to say it, Xtian Laettner was one of the greatest college BB players I ever saw. That shot wasn't lucky, it was diabolical and inevitable.

No need for your last sentence...."of course you do". I am not attacking you. We have a difference of opinion or view on luck. Relax man it's not that serious. When you use the word luck I believe you discredit effort, teams ability to make plays, make things happen at crunch time.

Coaching and effort changed our fortune/luck. I get what you are saying. Going to Atlantic City selecting a slot machine and winning millions is luck. It took no skill to do that, you were fortunate to select that machine at that time. Going to AC and winning the world poker tourny involves some luck or good fortune but you as a player will determine the outcome based on your poker skill level. You can impact the game in your favor by playing well or making plays. You can't say STJ play in the second half did not change their fortunes. Here is the problem.... what about ASU luck? Hitting those shots in the first half but not the second. They were lucky to get the lose balls, lucky to get calls. It gets to the point were nothing is based on skill...just luck. In every game the winner is fortunate and the loser is unfortunate thats a given. The bottom line is we made more plays when it counted. This is the last I am going to say on this....look forward to your response.


Foad

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2010, 11:30:29 AM »
No need for your last sentence...."of course you do". I am not attacking you. We have a difference of opinion or view on luck. Relax man it's not that serious. When you use the word luck I believe you discredit effort, teams ability to make plays, make things happen at crunch time.

Coaching and effort changed our fortune/luck. I get what you are saying. Going to Atlantic City selecting a slot machine and winning millions is luck. It took no skill to do that, you were fortunate to select that machine at that time. Going to AC and winning the world poker tourny involves some luck or good fortune but you as a player will determine the outcome based on your poker skill level. You can impact the game in your favor by playing well or making plays. You can't say STJ play in the second half did not change their fortunes. Here is the problem.... what about ASU luck? Hitting those shots in the first half but not the second. They were lucky to get the lose balls, lucky to get calls. It gets to the point were nothing is based on skill...just luck. In every game the winner is fortunate and the loser is unfortunate thats a given. The bottom line is we made more plays when it counted. This is the last I am going to say on this....look forward to your response.

Look. What I'm saying is that the word luck has several meanings. I used it according to one definition. You took me to mean another definition. I clarified what I meant, at length, when I used the word according to the first definition, which definition I provided. Unperturbed, you went right back to discussing the definition that I explicitly renounced, and here you are back to it again: what about ASU luck? If I didn't know better I'd think you were having me off. But I do know better, and there's a certain point in a discussion like this where it takes all my enormous powers of self control to not let loose with a stream of invective, because this dialogue is slightly less pointless than driving a railroad spike into my eye. I say 'I'm not talking about luck' and you say "what about ASU luck" and are parsing the difference between skill and luck as if the previous half dozen posts never occured. This is what this conversation is like to me:


F: I'm a little hoarse today.

P : You can't be a little horse, you don't have a tail.

F: No, not horse, hoarse. I mean my throat is sore. I have a frog in my throat.

P: Oh okay, I see what you mean, hoarse. But you only have two legs, whereas a horse has four. And a frog is green.

F: No, not horse, hoarse, meaning my throat is sore, not horse meaning equine.

P: Okay, I see what you mean, I get what you're saying.  But you don't have any fur and anyway a little horse would be a pony, whereas a little frog would be a tadpole.

F: WTF? I meant hoarse, not horse. Get it? Hoarse with an A, not horse meaning the animnal. Hoarse meaning there's something wrong with my throat, not horse meaning a four legged animal of the genus equus.

P: Oh yeah sure, I get what you mean, but horses whinny, whereas you talk, so how can you be a little pony?

And so on, and so on.

So to recap: We're not having "a difference of opinion or view on luck" because I'm not talking about luck. I'm not talking about SJ's luck, or ASU's luck. I'm not talking about lucky bounces, lucky calls, lucky shots, or lucky sweaters. Luck is not involved and luck did not enter into the discussion. There was no luck. I was not implying that the SJ victory was the result of good luck, or that the ASU loss was the result of bad luck. SJ won the game because SJ scored more points than ASU. What I meant by using the word "lucky" was completely discrete and seperate from what you mean when you are discussing "luck." They are two different things. Utterly and completely different words, with utterly and completely different meanings. In fact, the only bad luck was that I used the word lucky, which has more than one meaning, instead of merely using the word "fortunate," which would have perhaps led to less confusion on your part.

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2010, 08:02:56 PM »
I agree you shoud have used a different word.

Poison

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2010, 08:06:21 PM »
This thread was once good

sjd8886

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2010, 08:48:29 PM »
This thread was once good

honestly, its your own fault if u respond to foad in any way...go back and read threads containing his posts, they all at some point involve name calling, extensive definitions of words, outlandish reasoning, and enough ranting off topic to count as spamming...i really dont know why hes still allowed to post, but i think the forum would be much improved if you just ignore his posts

Poison

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Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2010, 08:53:54 PM »
SJD, agreed.

Re: Alaska Shootout Champs!
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2010, 09:21:12 PM »
This thread was once good

honestly, its your own fault if u respond to foad in any way...go back and read threads containing his posts, they all at some point involve name calling, extensive definitions of words, outlandish reasoning, and enough ranting off topic to count as spamming...i really dont know why hes still allowed to post, but i think the forum would be much improved if you just ignore his posts

It's not that bad. Everyone has different personalities here and I think everyone goes a long way realizing that. Don't make me go Dennis Green.....they are who we thought they were.

Lets remember we're all on the same team here.
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