Big East shakeup

Quote from: Choz4Life on August 09, 2011, 03:33:18 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on August 09, 2011, 12:26:09 PM

except for syracuse and kentucky being football "giants" lol

What? You didnt hear? They ARE giants. All the BE fball programs are. Titans truly. The only thing holdin them back from becomin Florida and Oklahoma and USC and Texas of I-95 is them pesky bball schools that shouldnt have a say one way or another cause the Big East is all about the football.

Might makes right.

LMAO!!!
There are some here that would rather see the Big East a mediocre football conference than the top basketball conference that it currently is. Some of these folks think football money will, like a magician, turn the Big East football stadiums from half-filled 50,000 seat stadiums into 100,000 seat Texas or Michigan or Tenn or Penn State sold out stadiums. The only thing diluting the Big East BRAND name right now are the football schools! USF, Cinncy, Rutgers, Uconn, Louisville, Syracuse will NEVER challenge a Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, USC, Tenn, Ole Miss, Auburn, etc., etc., for football supremacy. They can and do in basketball, however. The schools with sold out 90,000 seat stadiums earn millions more than the BE football schools on ticket and concession sales alone without TV money!  Uconn and Rutgers had zero profit from their programs last year and they are STATE schools! If the Big East football schools ever got the 80% vote to boot any BB schools they would have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Even IF the Big 10 became the Big 16 by cherry-picking the only viable BE football schools UWV and Pitt, the Big East would survive and continue to prosper once the new TV deal is signed.

100% correct.  Little do they know that basketball runs this ship.  There's nowhere for these football schools to go to make more dollars.  A split is pure overzealous speculation by low tier football collective that thinks theres a pot of gold out there.

The best thing about west Virginia football is that it is a big deal in the irrelevant state od west Virginia.
 
west virgina football is a small fish on the national level. 

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If the Big East Football Conference wants to improve the perception of it's quality then it would expel bottom feeder rutgers.

Miami and to a lesser extent Va Tech saved the Big East.  Syracuse and/or Pitt were goners in the early 90's without football.  Being an independent was not an option anymore.

You got that right.  BC wasn't staying long either.  While that saved the BE then, what has happened since has gotten totally out of hand (17 teams).

i was in nebraska a couple of summers ago and all everyone talked about was husker football.  i was in cincinnati last september and not one person talked about cincinnati football.

that's the state of big east football today.  adding army, navy, temple or air force won't change this.

the acc took our best football teams and they still suck.

With the possible exception of South Florida, I doubt you will hear more football talk over basketball talk in any BE town.   In Cincy, I suppose most of any college football talks would be about the Buckeyes.

My how things change.  Temple, the only school to be removed from the BE (they were a football only school in the conference).

It is funny how those teams (Miami, BC and Va. Tech) were better in the BE (and that includes when they played out of conference opponents) than they have been since switching conferences.  And the ACC has not been very good as a whole.  Going against the SEC for recruits is not easy.

Quote from: fordham96 on August 05, 2011, 10:37:57 PM

Miami and to a lesser extent Va Tech saved the Big East.  Syracuse and/or Pitt were goners in the early 90's without football.  Being an independent was not an option anymore.

You got that right.  BC wasn't staying long either.  While that saved the BE then, what has happened since has gotten totally out of hand (17 teams).

Quote from: newsman13 on August 06, 2011, 11:05:55 AM

i was in nebraska a couple of summers ago and all everyone talked about was husker football.  i was in cincinnati last september and not one person talked about cincinnati football.

that's the state of big east football today.  adding army, navy, temple or air force won't change this.

the acc took our best football teams and they still suck.

With the possible exception of South Florida, I doubt you will hear more football talk over basketball talk in any BE town.   In Cincy, I suppose most of any college football talks would be about the Buckeyes.

My how things change.  Temple, the only school to be removed from the BE (they were a football only school in the conference).

It is funny how those teams (Miami, BC and Va. Tech) were better in the BE (and that includes when they played out of conference opponents) than they have been since switching conferences.  And the ACC has not been very good as a whole.  Going against the SEC for recruits is not easy.

'85 to be fair the Va Tech has been solid.  Miami and FSU have not held up their own in the new ACC.  That is about to change though.  FSU is a legit NC contender this year and Miami is will be pretty good this year and are on their way back to being a dominant program.

You get FSU and Miami back at a national level and the ACC is going to be just fine.  Trust me, Miami and FSU will get their kids in recruiting.  Florida is loaded as a state.

According to Brett McMurphy from CBSsports on twitter yesteday, the big east rebufed ESPN again: "Also confirmed media rights deal Big East turned down from ESPN: 9 years, $1.4 billion."

ESPN is the only network that can bid at the moment.  Exlcusive rights to bid through mid 2012. 

NBC wants the big east very badly, especially after losing out on the PAC 12.  There is somewhat of a natural synergy there with ND already being on NBC.  The NBC Sports Channel (aka Versus) is only in about 30m less homes than ESPN now.  Will take a while for this to play out, but I think NBC has a very strong chance of getting the Big East, with the Big East staying intact (although it might need to shed a basketball school or two along the way - Marquette and DePaul seem the likeliest suspects - in a drive to get to 12 football schools and a national champonship game)

I don't believe that any of the basketball only schools will vote to expel another basketball only.

The football schools lack any star studded alternative to the two headed hybrid league that exists.

______________________________

rutgers sucks.

Quote from: Beach Bum on August 08, 2011, 02:13:46 PM

Quote from: Marillac on August 07, 2011, 02:31:46 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on August 06, 2011, 04:23:50 PM

I really don't see the football schools going anywhere.  There's just nowhere to go to make them much more marketable.  The money in this league is tied to the fact that we have a soon to be 17 school bball league, where more than 60% of the teams are uber competitive.  Big East football makes less money than the basketball side of things.  There's simply nowhere for the league to go, unless some other conferences want to cherry pick a school or two.  Even still, most of the big football leagues are pretty much formed. 

Pitt and Rutgers are as good as gone.  Possibly Syracuse as well.  The big 10 will poach to get to 16.

I disagree! Rutgers and Syracuse will NEVER be Big Ten quality football schools! Pitt is viable but Penn State does not want them. Pitt goes to Big 10 the BE poaches State! In addition, both Rutgers and Syracuse will see their BB star power dimished, especially post Boeheim! The ACC poached its 3 best football schools and the BE just became stronger! I ask you: after Pitt, WV and now TCU, where is the Big East football star-power? Let's get a grip here!

It's not about star power.  Half of the Big Ten sucks almost every year:  Indiana, Northwestern, Minnesota, Illinois, and even Purdue to a degree.  It's an arms race and it's about survival to them.  Rutgers is a decent school academically and it has the New York market.  They are confident that joining the conference will lift the level of play of Rutgers.  Pitt is a very solid program.  Penn State would NEVER go to the Big East...it's a dying conference. 

there is no new york market for college football.  even a great rutgers team wouldn't change that.

re: another post...i would hate to see marquette and/or depaul go.  they've had some great years in the past and they will again.

Quote from: SJU85 on August 10, 2011, 10:49:23 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on August 05, 2011, 10:37:57 PM

Miami and to a lesser extent Va Tech saved the Big East.  Syracuse and/or Pitt were goners in the early 90's without football.  Being an independent was not an option anymore.

You got that right.  BC wasn't staying long either.  While that saved the BE then, what has happened since has gotten totally out of hand (17 teams).

Quote from: newsman13 on August 06, 2011, 11:05:55 AM

i was in nebraska a couple of summers ago and all everyone talked about was husker football.  i was in cincinnati last september and not one person talked about cincinnati football.

that's the state of big east football today.  adding army, navy, temple or air force won't change this.

the acc took our best football teams and they still suck.

With the possible exception of South Florida, I doubt you will hear more football talk over basketball talk in any BE town.   In Cincy, I suppose most of any college football talks would be about the Buckeyes.

My how things change.  Temple, the only school to be removed from the BE (they were a football only school in the conference).

It is funny how those teams (Miami, BC and Va. Tech) were better in the BE (and that includes when they played out of conference opponents) than they have been since switching conferences.  And the ACC has not been very good as a whole.  Going against the SEC for recruits is not easy.

'85 to be fair the Va Tech has been solid.  Miami and FSU have not held up their own in the new ACC.  That is about to change though.  FSU is a legit NC contender this year and Miami is will be pretty good this year and are on their way back to being a dominant program.

You get FSU and Miami back at a national level and the ACC is going to be just fine.  Trust me, Miami and FSU will get their kids in recruiting.  Florida is loaded as a state.

You are right about Va Tech.  But I still question FSU and Miami, both of whom can't seem to get out of their own way.  You would think they would be recruiting better but it hasn't been that great in the past few years.  I would love to see both back on top.

Newsman 13, I love college football (with several favorite teams) and a New Yorker but you are 100% right   about the New York Market and college football.

Like a few wise men say on this here board, NY will alway be a pro town 'cept when it comes to college bball. NY has always embrace college bball long bfore and after the BE. Its the only amateur sport that gets any luv from the general populace.

College fball is treated like a hobby 'round here like an Ivy game or a Army game or even a Fordham game. Its an afternoon of chillin back on the campus, a time fo peeps to get together and have some fun. But bleeding fo those teams? It dont happen cept Army/Navy which is sometin special and sacred that no one can match. An exception to the rule and only one game.   

There are only two conferences left that will expand in college football in the near future. One is the Big 10 and the other is the Big East. The Big 10 added Nebraska while the BE added TCU, both elite football schools. The Big 10 prefers large land-grant schools with deep football tradition and stadiums exceeding 80,000 capacity. The Big East wants to be a more elite conference than the ACC on the east coast. Nationally, they were the 5th and 6th rated football conferences out of 12 major conferences. The only school that makes any sense for the BE is Boston College but BC stabbed the BE in the back and has delusions of academic grandeur that, other than it's Law School, are vastly overrated. They have maintained their "elite" academic standing by being highly selective. That means very few minorities as far as BC is concerned. They think the ACC is a better academic fit but in fact they are just a catholic fish in southern Protestant waters. Let them stay in their imaginary southern state of mind! As far as a Big East shakeup, it should start at the administrative level. First, that incompetent commissioner needs to be fired. Second, move BE conference headquarters to NYC. Third, add only ONE additional football school that has basketball star power. Being from NYC, I could care less about college football and if I wanted to see a traditional college game I would drive up to Fordham before I cross the bridge to Rutgers.
 

TCU is not in the same class of football as Nebraska.

There are only two conferences left that will expand in college football in the near future. One is the Big 10 and the other is the Big East. The Big 10 added Nebraska while the BE added TCU, both elite football schools. The Big 10 prefers large land-grant schools with deep football tradition and stadiums exceeding 80,000 capacity. The Big East wants to be a more elite conference than the ACC on the east coast. Nationally, they were the 5th and 6th rated football conferences out of 12 major conferences. The only school that makes any sense for the BE is Boston College but BC stabbed the BE in the back and has delusions of academic grandeur that, other than it's Law School, are vastly overrated. They have maintained their "elite" academic standing by being highly selective. That means very few minorities as far as BC is concerned. They think the ACC is a better academic fit but in fact they are just a catholic fish in southern Protestant waters. Let them stay in their imaginary southern state of mind! As far as a Big East shakeup, it should start at the administrative level. First, that incompetent commissioner needs to be fired. Second, move BE conference headquarters to NYC. Third, add only ONE additional football school that has basketball star power. Being from NYC, I could care less about college football and if I wanted to see a traditional college game I would drive up to Fordham before I cross the bridge to Rutgers.

If they want an additional football school that is a bball power, a school like Kansas fits that bill.  They play mediocre football like the rest of the big east, but have a storied bball program.

MCN - you are right.  And if the Big 12 falls apart (which I hear still might happen), the Big East would do well to poach Kansas, MSU and Missouri.  Which is of course what they tried to do several months ago, to no avail. This is why I brought up the topic of potentially needing to shed some basketball schools - grabbing the 3 aforementioned schools would bring the big east, inclusive of TCU, to 12 football schools and 20 basketball schools. Which many memebrs see as far too large.  A cut of 2 hoops schools - pick 2 of the Hall, Marquette and DePaul, perhaps - would get to 18, which (I have heard) is a number the football schools prefer.  The football schools do weild some power here becuase the revenue split is now about 50/50 on tv rights between basketball and football schools, even though football tv rights are more valuable.  Their leverage is in that they can renegotiate that spolit when the next tv contract comes around, as it will next year.

And jake is right as well - TCU is nowhere near the level of Nebraska.

TCU is not in the same class of football as Nebraska.

Maybe from an historical perspective but please look at the last few years! In the final BCS rankings in 2010 TCU was 3rd. In 2011 it was second only to Audurn. The Huskers were not ranked in the top 15. The Huskers own the state of Nebraska. TCU competes in the state of Texas with UT, SMU, Texas A&M, Baylor, Houston and of course Friday Night Lights high schools that draw 20,000 every week. The Big 10 has added the state of Nebraska as a television market (Less than the borough of Queens!) while the Big East has added the state of Texas. If it is about TV markets then the Big East made the better deal. Just my humble opinion:)

BTW, in any shakeup the TV markets and their advertising value will be a major factor along with the "entertainment" value of the school's programs. The Metropolitan Market Regions / Areas
1   New York
2   Los Angeles
3   Chicago
4   Philadelphia
5   Dallas-Ft. Worth
6   San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose
7   Boston
8   Atlanta
9   Washington, DC
10   Houston

With TCU, the Big East will be in 4 of the 5 top TV markets in America!

Nebraska has national star power which is precisely why the ca$h rich Big 10 invited it to be a member.

Google the Forbes article that valued the major college football programs and that article will confirm Nebraska's media value.

Don't overestimate the importance of TCU in the Dallas media/ fan market.  UTexas owns the loyalties and wallets of college football fans in Dallas/ Ft.Worth followed by ( ii) Texas A&M, (iii) Texas Tech, (iv) Baylor, (v) Oklahoma and every other member of Big 12, and then perhaps either SMU or TCU.

Nebraska has national star power which is precisely why the ca$h rich Big 10 invited it to be a member.

Google the Forbes article that valued the major college football programs and that article will confirm Nebraska's media value.

Don't overestimate the importance of TCU in the Dallas media/ fan market.  UTexas owns the loyalties and wallets of college football fans in Dallas/ Ft.Worth followed by ( ii) Texas A&M, (iii) Texas Tech, (iv) Baylor, (v) Oklahoma and every other member of Big 12, and then perhaps either SMU or TCU.

Not doubting the Huskers media value at all! I was talking "all-sports" media markets and you are just talking college football. The Huskers have a very very very low value post-December when college basketball rules the collegiate scene. Sure, they sell out their 6 home games with 81,000 rabid fans but part of the value you failed to mention was $15,000,000 season ticket holders have to fork over on top of their season tickets! As far exposure, the Big East gains the Dallas-FW market. What does the Big 10 gain that was not there already? UT has the highest value of any sports team in college but Notre Dame and Penn State follow. ND may be an independent in football but they participate in every other sport and bring high name recognition. As far as the popularity of UT in Texas you cannot be further off base! I lived in Texas for a number of years and can tell you the Longhorns, while loved in Bowl games by Texans, are despised in most of the state where the local schools get most of the loyalty. You cannot wear a UT shirt in College Station. SMU and TCU dominate the Dallas market. Rice gets the love in Houston. Unlike Nebraska, where the Huskers are a monopoly, Texas has a NINE popular college football team in BCS and UT is just one of those teams. Don't tell the colege fans in Waco, Houston, Lubbock, Dallas that their favorite team is UT, you may not get out of the bar in one piece!

SEC looking to add Texas A&M...interesting to see where this will end up eventually.

SEC looking to add Texas A&M...interesting to see where this will end up eventually.

State of Texas football getting split in every direction.  I bet they join SEC.

BTW, in any shakeup the TV markets and their advertising value will be a major factor along with the "entertainment" value of the school's programs. The Metropolitan Market Regions / Areas
1   New York
2   Los Angeles
3   Chicago
4   Philadelphia
5   Dallas-Ft. Worth
6   San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose
7   Boston
8   Atlanta
9   Washington, DC
10   Houston

With TCU, the Big East will be in 4 of the 5 top TV markets in America!

And five of the top Ten