A Win

We are frustrated. The game was ugly. Using the whole clock and throwing up desperation shots is bad stategy
The only one w a good  shooting percentige was Gift. Throwing the ball around is good but the purpose is to find an open man, not use the whole 45 seconds. We have had a lot of bad news lately and people are waiting for some positive news.  On a positive note we rebounded well.

We are frustrated. The game was ugly. Using the whole clock and throwing up desperation shots is bad stategy
The only one w a good  shooting percentige was Gift. Throwing the ball around is good but the purpose is to find an open man, not use the whole 45 seconds. We have had a lot of bad news lately and people are waiting for some positive news.  On a positive note we rebounded well.

Dunlap said during the halftime interview that he wanted to push and attack the zone before they had time to set up.  So when that doesn't work, I think the simple concept is to work the ball around and get defense to make a mistake.   As Dunlap also said he thought StJ started great in their zone, but as the shot clock went on, the zone started making mistakes.  I think that same theory applies to the opponent.  Unfortunately, we still don't do a good job of breaking down the other team's zone, and so we wind up throwing up a bad shot with the clock running out.  My 2 cents.

Guttsy performance by our guys. Not preety but a won. In the end we will get worn down by mid season at this rate. 2nd half of Rutgers is going to be interesting due to major minutes and no bench. 

I agree. I don't know what everyone is freaking out about. They have 6 players, and I give them all credit for playing hard and battling without anywhere bear as many breaks as the other team had. I don't care how much more talented we are than them, if they're fresh off the bench, and we are not, they have an advantage.

Anyone who has played organized ball knows that. I know we almost blew a large lead, but we came up with a key stop on a block by Goft, and we pulled it out. A long way to go. Clearly. But don't cry about a win.

What happened to stith? Why did he barely play?

What happened to stith? Why did he barely play?

Academic issue...he was sat for the first half.  I don't know for sure but possibly problem with class attendance.

Quote from: PEEKSKILLREDDEVIL on December 18, 2011, 10:29:25 AM

Guttsy performance by our guys. Not preety but a won. In the end we will get worn down by mid season at this rate. 2nd half of Rutgers is going to be interesting due to major minutes and no bench. 

I agree. I don't know what everyone is freaking out about. They have 6 players, and I give them all credit for playing hard and battling without anywhere bear as many breaks as the other team had. I don't care how much more talented we are than them, if they're fresh off the bench, and we are not, they have an advantage.

Anyone who has played organized ball knows that. I know we almost blew a large lead, but we came up with a key stop on a block by Goft, and we pulled it out. A long way to go. Clearly. But don't cry about a win.

Ditto.  These kids (except Gift) were playing games of 32 minutes last year.  Asking them to go 40 at fullspeed is almost child abuse.  they gave all they had as I watched the lads play yesterday.  Keep up the effort and grow through the season and hopefully we will have a few wins.   There was a good sense of team among the new "Wonder Five" without the wins of their predecessors.  at least way back when the originals did not play at this speed so the 40 was a little easier to accomplish.

Quote from: Poison on December 18, 2011, 12:35:32 PM

Quote from: PEEKSKILLREDDEVIL on December 18, 2011, 10:29:25 AM

Guttsy performance by our guys. Not preety but a won. In the end we will get worn down by mid season at this rate. 2nd half of Rutgers is going to be interesting due to major minutes and no bench. 

I agree. I don't know what everyone is freaking out about. They have 6 players, and I give them all credit for playing hard and battling without anywhere bear as many breaks as the other team had. I don't care how much more talented we are than them, if they're fresh off the bench, and we are not, they have an advantage.

Anyone who has played organized ball knows that. I know we almost blew a large lead, but we came up with a key stop on a block by Goft, and we pulled it out. A long way to go. Clearly. But don't cry about a win.

Ditto.  These kids (except Gift) were playing games of 32 minutes last year.  Asking them to go 40 at fullspeed is almost child abuse.  they gave all they had as I watched the lads play yesterday.  Keep up the effort and grow through the season and hopefully we will have a few wins.   There was a good sense of team among the new "Wonder Five" without the wins of their predecessors.  at least way back when the originals did not play at this speed so the 40 was a little easier to accomplish.

Did you just compare playing 40 minutes of a basketball game to child abuse? 


It was a gutsy effort, but fordham is really bad.  We really need contributions for Garrett.  I'm hoping he's legit. 

He is legit but not a difference maker

What we need is our core group to keep improving.

We need Harrison to start shooting 7-14, and Phil Greene to run the offense w out walking. He'll get there, but he'll need to be given time. Yet, unfortunately, Wed is his last tune up.

the players have to get better..and they will.  they're getting big time coaching and big time minutes.

as far as dunlop...again, he won two national championships..division II...with no gaudy players to lean on.  he had five guys.  is he supposed to run for 40 minutes?  fordham is well coached and isn't the crap many think it is.

i was frustrated with the "norm" offense...believe me...but i understand it.

the players have to get better..and they will.  they're getting big time coaching and big time minutes.

as far as dunlop...again, he won two national championships..division II...with no gaudy players to lean on.  he had five guys.  is he supposed to run for 40 minutes?  fordham is well coached and isn't the crap many think it is.

i was frustrated with the "norm" offense...believe me...but i understand it.

Newsie is right.  Right now we're playing with nearly 1/3 the roster of most of our opponents.  It's suboptimal in just about every way.  We aren't going to win big this year at this point.  People need to accept that.  We need to just hope for continued improvement, some more depth to be added this season and especially the 2012 class.  When we can field a full team next season And return 6-7 players, I think we'll start to see some real leaps.  It will be a tough year but the offense, even if painful at times, is way ahead of Norm's IMO.  Those times were bad and we'd wait 10 minutes for a basket or two.

What we need is our core group to keep improving.

We need Harrison to start shooting 7-14, and Phil Greene to run the offense w out walking. He'll get there, but he'll need to be given time. Yet, unfortunately, Wed is his last tune up.

I'd like to see some natural improvemnt from Harrison. If he can become a decent 3 point shooter it will take a lot of pressure off Moe and Gift inside. Only problem is that line drive shot really scares me. It's too make or miss for my taste. Also long rebounds eliminate putbacks and lead to runouts. Last thing we need is to expend more energy chasing down their offense.

Some great SJU "knockdown shooters"

Paris Horne
45%
41%
44%
45%

Geno Lawrence
33%
37%
38%
34%

Avery Patterson
36%

Ricky Torres
32%
34%

Ced Jackson
36%
34%

D'angelo Harrison
34%

If Harrison can improve his shooting just a little he can be grouped with the above sharpshooters. Well all of them besides Paris Horne of course who is the Chris Mullin of this group.

Some great SJU "knockdown shooters"

Paris Horne
45%
41%
44%
45%

Geno Lawrence
33%
37%
38%
34%

Avery Patterson
36%

Ricky Torres
32%
34%

Ced Jackson
36%
34%

D'angelo Harrison
34%

If Harrison can improve his shooting just a little he can be grouped with the above sharpshooters. Well all of them besides Paris Horne of course who is the Chris Mullin of this group.

You've omitted:
Lawrence "Michigan" Wright
36%
43%
36% *
43% *            * at Oakland

Two of my all-time favorites are on this page.  I hope D'angelo can one day accomplish great things as some of the others listed here have.

Neither Wright or Horne belong on the list. I only used Horne as an example of a guy who was not a classic shooter and struggled at times with his shot. Horne's jumper (no Larry Wright) would be considered Alan Houstonesque compared to the others on this list. Ced shot a screaming line drive. The rest of the guys shot /shoot a push shot of one sort or another.

Neither Wright or Horne belong on the list. I only used Horne as an example of a guy who was not a classic shooter and struggled at times with his shot. Horne's jumper (no Larry Wright) would be considered Alan Houstonesque compared to the others on this list. Ced shot a screaming line drive. The rest of the guys shot /shoot a push shot of one sort or another.

Why your obsession/preoccupation with form?  Was that your game as a Cyo star?  I don't care if the guy punts it up there.  I just like when it goes in.

Some great SJU "knockdown shooters"

Paris Horne
45%
41%
44%
45%

Geno Lawrence
33%
37%
38%
34%

Avery Patterson
36%

Ricky Torres
32%
34%

Ced Jackson
36%
34%

D'angelo Harrison
34%

If Harrison can improve his shooting just a little he can be grouped with the above sharpshooters. Well all of them besides Paris Horne of course who is the Chris Mullin of this group.

Looking at shooting % in a vacuum doesn't really tell us anything.  Many players can hit a fair amount of their three-point attempts if they only take 1-2 a game from a set position. Guys that are taking 6-8(or more) per game get many of those attempts contested or have to work harder to get them--which tires the legs out and doesn't always allow them to take them in rhythm.  Freshman shooters also tend to take some bad shots that they wouldn't take as upperclassman.  Harrison is certainly guilty of this, but I think he will leave campus as one of the best outside shooters we've ever had.  Hardy was a great shooter/scorer and his %'s were very similar.

I usually agree with your take on form, WASJU, but I see nothing wrong with Harrison's stroke.  In fact, I think his release is lightning quick and effortless.  It might be a tad flat--which is weird because I thought he had good arch from high school--but that could be the result of him adding 20 lbs in the last year and a half. 

Carmine
Much like woman I like jump shots to be pretty. Alan Houston, Steve Alford, Ray Allen, Chris Mullin, Stephon Curry, Larry Wright. I like shooters. And anyway if I guy has nice form he will usually shoot the ball well. If a guy has terrible form he won't shoot well as my list prooves. There are exceptions of course. There have been guys who have shot a push shot succesfully though it is ugly to look at. Sadly, never has a guy shot well while shooting a line drive pushot though. In fact it is pretty hard to attempt. Generally if you shoot a push shot you are shooting it with an arc. Harrison somehow shoots a linedrive push shot. Unfortunately I called this early on in fact after the 1st exhibition game, but he is going to struggle to shoot on this level.   

Marillac
I did not see Harrison in HS but from day one I said I did not like the look of his shot. Players are bigger and more athletic at this level and he has had a bunch of shots blocked, so maybe he altered his shot from HS?
Hardy got great elevation and had a soft touch. If anything he sometimes drifted on his jumper but he did not have a bad looking shot at all. If Hardy were 3 inches taller he would be a pro.

Carmine
Much like woman I like jump shots to be pretty. Alan Houston, Steve Alford, Ray Allen, Chris Mullin, Stephon Curry, Larry Wright. I like shooters. And anyway if I guy has nice form he will usually shoot the ball well. If a guy has terrible form he won't shoot well as my list prooves. There are exceptions of course. There have been guys who have shot a push shot succesfully though it is ugly to look at. Sadly, never has a guy shot well while shooting a line drive pushot though. In fact it is pretty hard to attempt. Generally if you shoot a push shot you are shooting it with an arc. Harrison somehow shoots a linedrive push shot. Unfortunately I called this early on in fact after the 1st exhibition game, but he is going to struggle to shoot on this level.   

The kid is known to be a good shooter.  Maybe, he's struggling a bit now.  He could also be pressing.  It's not like he takes awhile to get off his shot.  He can get it off fairly quickly, so I don't think he's gonna struggle at this level due to his shooting style.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him "get going" from deep as his career progresses at St. John's.