Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.
Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?
Those are not mid majors in my opinion. In my opinion, a mid major plays in a middle of the pack conference, but usually performs like a major conference team. Hence mid-major.
St.Mary's, Gonzaga, Temple, BYU, Southern Illinois, Wichita State, Detroit, VCU, George Mason and Creighton to name a few fit that bill for me.
I like the team Lehigh has this year, and I think they have a very good chance of winning their conference tournament, but they are a small school from a small conference that hasn't been a 20-25 game winner on average, and they haven't upset high major teams annually like Temple and St.Joe's have done.
If Lehigh is a mid major, then who isn't a mid major? Again, this is a matter of opinion. I'm sure others will have one, too.
Understood. I was basing my opinion of what constitutes a mid-major team by considering only the conferences from which commonly accepted mid-major schools play (e.g., Big Sky, Colonial, Missouri Valley, etc.).
You would be right, unless you make up your own definition of mid-major like Poison did. It's not really a matter of opinion. William & Mary is an awful team and Northeastern not too good but they're in a mid major conference so they're a mid major. CAA will very often put multiple teams in the dance. That's where the dividing line between mid major and low major lies. Not sure I'd say the same for Lehigh. Low major one bid conference even if a team like Lehigh or Bucknell can surprise once a decade in March.
I cannot take credit for this POV. It's Billy Packer's, and I happen to agree with it. I know a lot of people that don't.
From your take, my question how do you determine who a low major is? That's a term that I'm not as familiar with. If you play in the Northeast Conference, what is major about that? To me, that is the clearest definition of a cup cake. As far as William & Mary go, I personally can't give them mid major status, because there is nothing major about anything they've ever done as far as I know. They need to earn that label, and they have not. I think Northeastern was a mid major when Reggie Lewis played there.
I don't think it's fair to automatically dub a team a mid major or low major just because they play in a certain conference. Cincinnati played in conference USA along with several other programs that were never considered high major programs, but Cincinnati, no matter how you slice it, is not an historic program, but a major one as well.
Some fans here would take a win over Fordham, and give us credit for beating a A10 team. (Technically we did) But is Fordham a mid major? When we beat them 2 years ago at Alumni Hall,
I think they would have required significant improvement just to be considered a D1 team. But if you follow a system where a conference awards credit, then they are. To me, that win was less impressive than any other win SJU had that season.
No worries. A lot of people erroneously hold the same beliefs including intellectual giants like Packer who by himself probably started the unfortunate trend.
Re your point on low major here's the thing. Div 1A is major college basketball, SWAC or SEC. Everything else (D11, DIII, NAIA) is minor. That said I agree the term low-major isn't used that much. Traditionally the designations are as follows:
Power Conference = BCS
Mid Major Conference = Conferences that often or regularly have sent multiple teams to the dance. In other words conferences from which teams could get a bid as an at-large
One Bid Conference = Conferences that never or very rarely would have a team get into the dance as an at-large
If you play in a Power Conference you are a power conference team whether you are Duke or Penn State.
Same with mid major whether you are Gonzaga or William and Mary.
There are good Power Conference teams and bad, good mid-majors and bad. Re Cincy, remember CUSA's designs were always to become a power/BCS conference by proving themselves on the gridiron but they never quite made it before the BE started stealing their best two sport programs so Cincy was in a tough position and the definitions probably weren't as clear for that conference then as it is for all conferences now.
So as far as William and Mary goes if you don't consider them a mid major just because they're one of the five D1 teams to never make the dance does that mean you don't consider Northwestern a Power Conference team?
These designations for these teams are traditionally and rightfully or wrongfully defined by their affiliations more than who they actually are. Packer had a problem with it but then again he had a problem with multi-syllabic words and we all still use them.
Individual team performance is not dictated by what level of conference you are in but rather by your specific talents and achievements and is better measured by things like the RPI. RPI says mid-major or not Willam & Mary are one of the worst teams in the country, Detroit's pretty bad and Northeastern is almost mediocre and I tend to agree with them on these assessments.