Discouraged team

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 19, 2012, 01:09:54 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:05:10 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 19, 2012, 12:29:56 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

The same reason Lavin and staff was able to garner a top 5 recruiting class prior to any of the recruits seeing the 2010-2011 team in action.  That is why I feel they are capable of landing a solid, recruiting class in 2012.

Once again, you're speaking on your opinion like most are doing.  You're not being realistic (well, maybe in your world).  You're basing your opinion.  Most people like to hide behind being realistic when they are actually always being negative.

Everything I say is an accurate assessment of the program.  Players transferring, recruits ineligible, the current players moping on the court and not performing, Lavin not coaching, minimal fan support and just one recruit for next season. 

Instead of just showing your ignorance and stating taht I'm being overly negative, actually try refuting my claims to show you have an ounce of credibility in you. 

Everything you say is an accurate assessment of the program in your mind. 

In any realistic persons mind....again, try refuting that this program isn't in bad shape. 

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Players transfer from most programs (some of your better programs) every, single season.

As a stand-alone the transfers wouldn't look so bad but when combined with everything else it just makes things worse and becomes part of the major problem.

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Most of us know about the ineligibles; we've seen some moping; we know Lavin isn't coaching; the fan support has always been that way unless the team was winning;

So, we're in agreement?  Or are you going to try to spin all this into a positive?

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many know there will be more recruits coming in next season. 

I have no doubt there will be recruits next season.  There's plenty of malik stith's out there dieing to play in the big east when they belong in the maac.  Until there is actual major talent signed, I think it's fair to worry about our class next season.

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you're a genius

I'm nowhere near a genius, but I'm certainly smarter than you.

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punk!

U mad?

Color it as you may, but I'm sure the majority will say you're negative.  I've been around people like you many times and the ilk is pretty much the same.  The person or individual is different, but the personality trait is generally the same.  Once again, it's your opinion and prerogative.

I'm not mad.  I just know a punk when I encounter one.

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 01:21:48 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:00:55 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Two words: Steve Lavin.  It's why Moe and the rest of the best class we have had in over 20 years decided to come here last year, and as long as Lavin is working to resurrect the program, top recruits will continue to come.   Bank on it.

Well, that's obvious.  But in case you missed it, Lavin isn't coaching and although he is recruiting there's no guarantee he ever comes back to coaching. 

I agree, that along as Lavin is COACHING and a part of this program, the recruits will come.  But why would I commit to Lavin when I watched all the other recruits commit to Lavin and have to play for Dunlap?

Everything I have read and heard tells me that Lavin IS coming back next year.  So until I hear otherwise (and not just from Baldi ), I stand by my previous post. You can certainly have a different opinion.  It's America, you're entitled.

I certainly don't know whether or not Lavin will come back.  If I had to guess, I'd say YES.  but my point is there is no guarantee he comes back, and if you are a recruit how can you be so sure he's coaching enxt year?

I can't crawl into the heads of each recruit to answer your question.  However, Lavin is a great closer when it comes to convincing recruits of his "vision" of the program and where each recruit fits into it.  I trust that Lavin will convince the recruits we need that all is right with the world at SJU, including the fact that he will be coaching next year.   Call me naive, but with Lavin, I like our chances. 

 

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:27:01 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 01:21:48 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:00:55 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Two words: Steve Lavin.  It's why Moe and the rest of the best class we have had in over 20 years decided to come here last year, and as long as Lavin is working to resurrect the program, top recruits will continue to come.   Bank on it.

Well, that's obvious.  But in case you missed it, Lavin isn't coaching and although he is recruiting there's no guarantee he ever comes back to coaching. 

I agree, that along as Lavin is COACHING and a part of this program, the recruits will come.  But why would I commit to Lavin when I watched all the other recruits commit to Lavin and have to play for Dunlap?

Everything I have read and heard tells me that Lavin IS coming back next year.  So until I hear otherwise (and not just from Baldi ), I stand by my previous post. You can certainly have a different opinion.  It's America, you're entitled.

I certainly don't know whether or not Lavin will come back.  If I had to guess, I'd say YES.  but my point is there is no guarantee he comes back, and if you are a recruit how can you be so sure he's coaching enxt year?

I can't crawl into the heads of each recruit to answer your question.  However, Lavin is a great closer when it comes to convincing recruits of his "vision" of the program and where each recruit fits into it.  I trust that Lavin will convince the recruits we need that all is right with the world at SJU, including the fact that he will be coaching next year.   Call me naive, but with Lavin, I like our chances.

So far the two recruits we did have decomitted!!!

Dunlap doesn't appear to have the creativity to run a team.  he completely goes by the book.  that is what makes him such a great assistant.  dunlap pounds the fundamentals into the kids' heads. it then takes a head coach, ala Lavin, to leverage those learnings, practices, etc to get the best out of the team during games .  i may be wrong, but i think lavin would get creative with the kids.

Disappointing result last night for sure...but you have to trust the process.  The same kids we saw last night will beat a ranked team before it is over.  This team needs a true point badly.  These kids are playing on tired legs, but they will learn how to stay in and even win some games with the odds stacked against them.  Those lesson can't be valued.  We can't lose sight of the long term goal for this core...it's not to win more games now, it's to contend for a national championship in two years.

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 01:34:18 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:27:01 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 01:21:48 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:00:55 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Two words: Steve Lavin.  It's why Moe and the rest of the best class we have had in over 20 years decided to come here last year, and as long as Lavin is working to resurrect the program, top recruits will continue to come.   Bank on it.

Well, that's obvious.  But in case you missed it, Lavin isn't coaching and although he is recruiting there's no guarantee he ever comes back to coaching. 

I agree, that along as Lavin is COACHING and a part of this program, the recruits will come.  But why would I commit to Lavin when I watched all the other recruits commit to Lavin and have to play for Dunlap?

Everything I have read and heard tells me that Lavin IS coming back next year.  So until I hear otherwise (and not just from Baldi ), I stand by my previous post. You can certainly have a different opinion.  It's America, you're entitled.

I certainly don't know whether or not Lavin will come back.  If I had to guess, I'd say YES.  but my point is there is no guarantee he comes back, and if you are a recruit how can you be so sure he's coaching enxt year?

I can't crawl into the heads of each recruit to answer your question.  However, Lavin is a great closer when it comes to convincing recruits of his "vision" of the program and where each recruit fits into it.  I trust that Lavin will convince the recruits we need that all is right with the world at SJU, including the fact that he will be coaching next year.   Call me naive, but with Lavin, I like our chances.

So far the two recruits we did have decomitted!!!

Thanks for that newsflash!!!  At the end of the spring signing period, we will all know where the recruiting efforts stand, and you can either crow or eat crow about the results.  Either way, let's at least give Lavin his full shot.

Dunlap doesn't appear to have the creativity to run a team.  he completely goes by the book.  that is what makes him such a great assistant.  dunlap pounds the fundamentals into the kids' heads. it then takes a head coach, ala Lavin, to leverage those learnings, practices, etc to get the best out of the team during games .  i may be wrong, but i think lavin would get creative with the kids.

We have 7 players...one, Garret, who was playing high school games less than a month ago...and is probably so overwhelmed that he has zero confidence right now.  We have no size...no depth...kids playing out of position all over the court.  Most of you see a gross final score, but I see a final score earned almost entirely, for better or worse, by freshman.  This will be the most experienced team in the Big East in two years and the most experienced team in the nation in three years.  Everyone just needs to relax.  Forget about the final scores...forget about the effing win totals for this year.  The future is insanely bright for STJ Basketball.  Overcoming adversity is a lesson all great teams need to overcome, and that lesson--not from the end of the bench, but from being on court against one of not the hardest schedules in the country.

Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us marillac? This thread is about the horrendously boring shot clock violation offense.  Other than illwill, who should just be ignored entirely at all times, we are basically clamoring for dunlap to loosen the reigns so the kids can run a bit and have fun, both for their mental well being and for recruits watching to see. 

I can't speak for anyone, but opening the offense, to me, does not increase our chances to win, in fact, it might make the scores even uglier.  But as you say, the scores don't matter, its the kids' effort.  And I want to see their max effort WITH a smile on their face...or at the very least not like now with the constipated look on most of their faces. 

Open up the offense.  Why the hell not?  You know damn well these kids were not sold on an offense built on uglying other teams into a loss.

Quote from: Beach Bum on January 19, 2012, 11:50:55 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2012, 10:09:58 AM

Quote from: we are sju on January 19, 2012, 10:00:00 AM

Hard to watch that embarrassing debacle last night and crack a smile thru it all.  Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves


Losing is tough but kind of expected. Watching our offense is...... I guess uncomfortable would be the word. Tough to watch and not something I would want to play in.

Agreed I have no issues losing.  Lavin coached us to two losses this year.  Arizona and Tex AM.  I left both losses head held high.  We played enjoyable games, had some leads and 2 made FT's and we would have had the lesser of the two games we played.  However Northeastern was a blowout, Detroit turned out to be.  Kentucky was an annihilation.  All the BE losses have been spankings. Gtown while was a tight game got out of hand very quickly.  I have no problem and expected to lose games like Arizona and AM.  These others have been a tough pill to swallow.

No true fan likes to see his team lose Moose. From your history here you are a loyal fan that, unlike others, actually attends the games, travels with the team, scouts prospects and loves St. John's. Do not get infected by some of the less-than-diehard fans that relish insulting the team after a loss. You are smarter than that and know that playing 5 freshmen, 3 of whom were never projected to be starters, let alone having to play 30+ minutes against better and more experienced players is not a formula for success at even mid-major level.
Except for the Kentucky game and last nights USF game, the team has been competitive for a good part of most games as inexperienced as they are and as thin as they are. An annihilation is Carolina losing by 33 points to an unranked team. Three years ago (how quickly we forget) we had a junior studded team with some decent talent in the two Justins, Coker, DJ, Paris, Hardy, and a deep bench that won 6 or 8 BE games. This team along with some newcomers will likely win the Big East by the time they are juniors.
I know you will be there to celebrate which is more than I can say for some here on JJ.

These kids are Top 100's or 150's.  I don't buy the mid major argument, sorry.  Last night was annihilation to me.  We had a lead.  It disappeared.  We went a whole tv segment without scoring.  Respectable halftime score.  Then USF actually woke up and we looked like we saw a ghost.

Your definition of an annihilation is from the point of view of a hurt fan. I understand that and can only say that the Kentucky came close to that definition only because we were out of league against the possible national champion with 4 NBA players. Although USF is vastly improved from last year when they sucked and now they have a pro front line capable of beating ANY Big East team, I would say we beat ourselves last night whereas an annihilation is an opponent so much stronger and experienced than you beating you to a pulp. That did not happen last night.

I am a big Moe Harkless fan and have been since his FH HS days. Having watched him play many times before coming to SJ I can tell you that he has a tendency to coast in some games and avoid physical contact. The coaches are trying hard to keep him focused but that is his biggest handicap as a freshmen. Last night he did not show up and his stats would look like he scored 12 points and grabbed some rebounds but 7 of the 12 points came in the final 6 minutes when the game as over. He collected ONE foul which shows the less-than-stellar defense he played and he was basically a non-factor. He allowed his USF counterpart to have his way with him like a drunken teen on her prom. He was culprit #1 because he is the best player on the team that took the day off.

DHarrison had another dreadful freshman moment but there is no sub on the bench to help sit him down next to Rico and compose himself. He got caught in the fire and no one was there to rescue him.
Phil Grene is a terrific athlete who will be a major contributor in a year or two but he clearly cannot handle the point. He too is stuck as a "starter" while not deserving or even being ready for the role. Which brings me to Malik Stith. He is the only PG on the team and a junior but is too short and too mechanical to play any meaningful minutes. Sir Dom had another horrible offensive game and, like Moe, D and Phil played a bad version of street ball against USF. All of the above players played one of their worst games against a rising USF team but it was their poor play at every level that caused them to lose by double digits and not what USF did to them for 40 minutes.

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly. 

I disagree.  See the Providence game.

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 09:43:02 AM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 09:35:21 AM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 19, 2012, 09:29:53 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2012, 09:28:20 AM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 09:27:29 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2012, 09:13:19 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 19, 2012, 09:08:45 AM

I also agree. At some point, and that point is now, I think, you have to stop trying to teach these kid lessons of holding onto ball and doing anything to win, and start allowing them to enjoy playing...even if it results in less of a chance to win.  We are not going anywhere this year regardless of whether we essentially play the stall offense or the seven seconds or less offense, BUT, the kids will feel better about themselves if they are playing a fun offense knowing they will be getting reinforcements for next year.   I'm not saying we should totally let them loose and disregard all of the smart basketball principles dunlap is instilling in them, but let them have some fun.  We need these kids happy about their first season to some extent so they don't transfer, esp considering, as wasju pointed out, many are not from nyc, and prob have some ppl at home in their ears...

Also don't want recruits seeing misreable players on tv.

What recruits are also seeing is plenty of PT because of a short-handed team of freshmen are getting consistently beat up in the second half because the team simply needs more depth, balance and able bodies. 

I appreciate the sentiment associated with this thread, but I'm putting my faith in Lavin to get these kids through this rough stretch.  It's not like he's in a coma and doesn't see what we're seeing.  I'm sure he'll be pep talking the hell out of these kids as things get tougher (and they will).     

What recruits are also seeing is an offense in a coma.

Many of our games are on regional tv.  I'm sure they aren't seeing those games.   

I wouldn't worry... recruits prefer this brand of basketball.  Who wouldn't want to play "an exciting up-tempo baseline-to-baseline attack style of basketball" ? 

Must be a gloom and doom bug going around on these boards.    I guess we'll see toward the end of the spring signing period what impact, if any, the teams' apparent frustration and "exciting" brand of basketball will have.  Personally, I don't think it will have a material impact.

For me, anyway, it's tongue-in-cheek.   It's not the end of days, but I think it's time for Coach D to loosen the reigns on the offense a little.   I'd be willing to forgive D'angelo for throwing up an occasional brick early in the shot-clock or Dom trying to take his man off the dribble and risk getting stripped, if they're "feeling it" or think they have a good opportunity.  Right now the ball's not moving, guys aren't moving, and everybody's thinking too much out there.

That doesn't mean it needs to be a Chinese-fire drill every possession, but maybe simplify things a little and let the kids just react rather than over-think situations. 

And FWIW, no.. I don't think our struggles of late will kill our chances in recruiting.  Lavin is still our best weapon, and he'll get the job done.  But it certainly doesn't help, either.  And there's a big difference between bringing in 3 quality players or 5.

Agree...put 'em in attack mode and see what they can do...if we get in foul trouble, rein 'em in

I don't see how missing a shot, turning the ball over, or getting your shot blocked is any more fun for a team with 25 seconds left on the shot clock than it is with 3 seconds left.  Plus it could lead to losing by 30 instead of 15.  Yet again not fun for the players.

When we get a turnover or a stop and rebound ( not often enough so opportunities to run are already limited ), we do look to get up and down and create easy baskets.  Dunlap doesn't want us to get bogged down in a half-court game with a converted/inexperienced point, not enough of a post threat and poor outside shooting either; but there's little he can do to prevent it.

Trust in our staff to understand what we should be doing this season stylistically and logistically to prepare our youth for future more winnable battles.

Have you ever played basketball carmine?  Trust me, its way more fun to have confidence that you can run and take the open shot rather than whittle the clock down to nothing.  The offense we play has guys looking tentative qnd causes a massuve amt of shot clock violations.   That just sucks balls from a players and a fans standpoint. 

I don't see how missing a shot, turning the ball over, or getting your shot blocked is any more fun for a team with 25 seconds left on the shot clock than it is with 3 seconds left.  Plus it could lead to losing by 30 instead of 15.  Yet again not fun for the players.

When we get a turnover or a stop and rebound ( not often enough so opportunities to run are already limited ), we do look to get up and down and create easy baskets.  Dunlap doesn't want us to get bogged down in a half-court game with a converted/inexperienced point, not enough of a post threat and poor outside shooting either; but there's little he can do to prevent it.

Trust in our staff to understand what we should be doing this season stylistically and logistically to prepare our youth for future more winnable battles.

Plus when you wait that long you often get put in a tough position where you HAVE to get a shot off to avoid the violation.  Leads to some dumb shot selection and fugly looking shots.

Have you ever played basketball carmine?  Trust me, its way more fun to have confidence that you can run and take the open shot rather than whittle the clock down to nothing.  The offense we play has guys looking tentative qnd causes a massuve amt of shot clock violations.   That just sucks balls from a players and a fans standpoint. 

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 20, 2012, 02:28:56 AM

I don't see how missing a shot, turning the ball over, or getting your shot blocked is any more fun for a team with 25 seconds left on the shot clock than it is with 3 seconds left.  Plus it could lead to losing by 30 instead of 15.  Yet again not fun for the players.

When we get a turnover or a stop and rebound ( not often enough so opportunities to run are already limited ), we do look to get up and down and create easy baskets.  Dunlap doesn't want us to get bogged down in a half-court game with a converted/inexperienced point, not enough of a post threat and poor outside shooting either; but there's little he can do to prevent it.

Trust in our staff to understand what we should be doing this season stylistically and logistically to prepare our youth for future more winnable battles.

I agree the we should open up the offense and let these guys run. First, what do we have to lose? We get blown out? Second, our players aren't built for a half court offense, at least not yet. Dom, Amir, GG and Greene are challenged offensively but all thrive in the open court. Lastly, recruits and the fans want to watch a fun brand of basketball not the shot clock violation from hell offense.  Let the guys play Dunlap and smile once and awhile after all it's just a game.

I agree the we should open up the offense and let these guys run. First, what do we have to lose? We get blown out? Second, our players aren't built for a half court offense, at least not yet. Dom, Amir, GG and Greene are challenged offensively but all thrive in the open court. Lastly, recruits and the fans want to watch a fun brand of basketball not the shot clock violation from hell offense.  Let the guys play Dunlap and smile once and awhile after all it's just a game.

I do have one concern and its legitmate.

Are we struggling to find players who fit the system we want to employ?  While we might be getting Top 100 kids are they Top 100 kids who can play the way the coaches want to.

And then the other question is are we getting the right players and they just aren't picking it up.

I think a lot of the players have hit the Freshmen wall. We need to support the kids and let them know they are valued.  Better days are ahead.

I think a lot of the players have hit the Freshmen wall. We need to support the kids and let them know they are valued.  Better days are ahead.

The freshman wall comes a lot earlier when you're forced to play 38 minutes and getting schlumped. I'm afraid of losing some of these kids if it keeps up. Without a penetrating PG we are so lost in the half court and without a dominating rebounder we are at wits end to start the break. As my gran pappy used to say, we are on the horns of a dilemma.

IMO Dunlap plays this slow down game because we are so thin. That said, I dont like it. Play Stith and Garrett more and play Mo and D Lo a little less so they arnt exausted at the end of the game and let em run.

1) We do try to run.  When we get a turnover or rebound I see us constantly pushing the ball up court trying to score before the defense is set.
Wiser men then I have pointed out that it's very difficult to run when your taking the ball out under the basket after it's gone through the net.   Louieee ball this is not.

2) Once the opposing defense is set (always a zone)  I'm sure Dunlap HAS NOT instructed them not to take a good shot if it's 12 seconds into the shot clock but to only shoot as the shot clock is expiring.

3) The delay in getting a shot up is caused by:

- subpar and inexperienced point guard play

- 3 point shooters reluctant to take one as they know it has little chance of going in.  Moe and D'lo partially exluded.  31% for our top gunner and 24% as a team.  That's very low.

- penetrating players reluctant to drive as they are 5 inches shorter and 40 1bs lighter than the defenders they are trying to score over and through that don't want to get swatted.  Nuri would have helped get shots up quicker in the shot clock.

- a 5 that is a 4; a 4 that is a 3; and a 1 that is a 2

4) I think this is the second time the kid has asked me if I've ever played basketball before so I'll respond.  Yes, I have played basketball before.  However, I didn't like it all that much as I couldn't stand the delay when you'ld have to go fetch the ladder to take the ball out of the peach basket.