Discouraged team

Hard to watch that embarrassing debacle last night and crack a smile thru it all.  Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves


Losing is tough but kind of expected. Watching our offense is...... I guess uncomfortable would be the word. Tough to watch and not something I would want to play in.

Agreed I have no issues losing.  Lavin coached us to two losses this year.  Arizona and Tex AM.  I left both losses head held high.  We played enjoyable games, had some leads and 2 made FT's and we would have had the lesser of the two games we played.  However Northeastern was a blowout, Detroit turned out to be.  Kentucky was an annihilation.  All the BE losses have been spankings. Gtown while was a tight game got out of hand very quickly.  I have no problem and expected to lose games like Arizona and AM.  These others have been a tough pill to swallow.

And to clarify its the way we are losing.  The shot clock violations.  Mind numbing turnovers and travels.  Getting 58 shots stuffed in your face.  etc.

It's tough to manage expectations as a die-hard fan.  I think we're all ready for another breakthrough moment, as we saw against Providence and Cincinatti, since we know what kind of potential our guys have.  I feel that whatever experiences our team gets this year will be "grist for the mill", an opportunity to grow and reflect, and inspire hard work moving forward into the future.  So long as our guys stick together as a team, with added reinforcements next year in critical positions and a coach returning to the bench, we'll be fine.  Let's be supportive of these 19 year-old FROSH to show them we've got their backs!

I wa lucky last night to be driving back to the City and did not have to watch the mess.  I was also lucky that it wasn't close with questionable calls as I would have had some road rage driving.  I just had to worry about not falling asleep at the wheel.

I agree that the more up tempo game called for by folks here would be more entertaining for the players and the fans.  However, to run we have to be able to rebound and that is not something I have seen much of lately.  Teams shoot 50% against us because they miss their first shot but put back the rebound.  Maybe a little less zone and a little more man might help in this area.  we always have 4 guys on the floor who can handle the ball in transition and running and going to the hoop will create much more "makeable" shots for the team that seems to be challenged from the outside.

Quote from: we are sju on January 19, 2012, 10:00:00 AM

Hard to watch that embarrassing debacle last night and crack a smile thru it all.  Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves


Losing is tough but kind of expected. Watching our offense is...... I guess uncomfortable would be the word. Tough to watch and not something I would want to play in.

Agreed I have no issues losing.  Lavin coached us to two losses this year.  Arizona and Tex AM.  I left both losses head held high.  We played enjoyable games, had some leads and 2 made FT's and we would have had the lesser of the two games we played.  However Northeastern was a blowout, Detroit turned out to be.  Kentucky was an annihilation.  All the BE losses have been spankings. Gtown while was a tight game got out of hand very quickly.  I have no problem and expected to lose games like Arizona and AM.  These others have been a tough pill to swallow.

No true fan likes to see his team lose Moose. From your history here you are a loyal fan that, unlike others, actually attends the games, travels with the team, scouts prospects and loves St. John's. Do not get infected by some of the less-than-diehard fans that relish insulting the team after a loss. You are smarter than that and know that playing 5 freshmen, 3 of whom were never projected to be starters, let alone having to play 30+ minutes against better and more experienced players is not a formula for success at even mid-major level.
Except for the Kentucky game and last nights USF game, the team has been competitive for a good part of most games as inexperienced as they are and as thin as they are. An annihilation is Carolina losing by 33 points to an unranked team. Three years ago (how quickly we forget) we had a junior studded team with some decent talent in the two Justins, Coker, DJ, Paris, Hardy, and a deep bench that won 6 or 8 BE games. This team along with some newcomers will likely win the Big East by the time they are juniors.
I know you will be there to celebrate which is more than I can say for some here on JJ.

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly. 

Quote from: Moose on January 19, 2012, 10:09:58 AM

Quote from: we are sju on January 19, 2012, 10:00:00 AM

Hard to watch that embarrassing debacle last night and crack a smile thru it all.  Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves


Losing is tough but kind of expected. Watching our offense is...... I guess uncomfortable would be the word. Tough to watch and not something I would want to play in.

Agreed I have no issues losing.  Lavin coached us to two losses this year.  Arizona and Tex AM.  I left both losses head held high.  We played enjoyable games, had some leads and 2 made FT's and we would have had the lesser of the two games we played.  However Northeastern was a blowout, Detroit turned out to be.  Kentucky was an annihilation.  All the BE losses have been spankings. Gtown while was a tight game got out of hand very quickly.  I have no problem and expected to lose games like Arizona and AM.  These others have been a tough pill to swallow.

No true fan likes to see his team lose Moose. From your history here you are a loyal fan that, unlike others, actually attends the games, travels with the team, scouts prospects and loves St. John's. Do not get infected by some of the less-than-diehard fans that relish insulting the team after a loss. You are smarter than that and know that playing 5 freshmen, 3 of whom were never projected to be starters, let alone having to play 30+ minutes against better and more experienced players is not a formula for success at even mid-major level.
Except for the Kentucky game and last nights USF game, the team has been competitive for a good part of most games as inexperienced as they are and as thin as they are. An annihilation is Carolina losing by 33 points to an unranked team. Three years ago (how quickly we forget) we had a junior studded team with some decent talent in the two Justins, Coker, DJ, Paris, Hardy, and a deep bench that won 6 or 8 BE games. This team along with some newcomers will likely win the Big East by the time they are juniors.
I know you will be there to celebrate which is more than I can say for some here on JJ.

These kids are Top 100's or 150's.  I don't buy the mid major argument, sorry.  Last night was annihilation to me.  We had a lead.  It disappeared.  We went a whole tv segment without scoring.  Respectable halftime score.  Then USF actually woke up and we looked like we saw a ghost.

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly. 

I'd rather run and turn the ball over than waste 33 seconds and turn it over.

Again no one is suggesting we look like the Paul Westhead LMU teams. All I suggest is to loosen up the shot clock violation offense.

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it. 

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly. 

I'd rather run and turn the ball over than waste 33 seconds and turn it over.

Agreed.

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Two words: Steve Lavin.  It's why Moe and the rest of the best class we have had in over 20 years decided to come here last year, and as long as Lavin is working to resurrect the program, top recruits will continue to come.   Bank on it.

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

The same reason Lavin and staff was able to garner a top 5 recruiting class prior to any of the recruits seeing the 2010-2011 team in action.  That is why I feel they are capable of landing a solid, recruiting class in 2012.

Once again, you're speaking on your opinion like most are doing.  You're not being realistic (well, maybe in your world).  You're basing your opinion.  Most people like to hide behind being realistic when they are actually always being negative. 

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Two words: Steve Lavin.  It's why Moe and the rest of the best class we have had in over 20 years decided to come here last year, and as long as Lavin is working to resurrect the program, top recruits will continue to come.   Bank on it.

Well, that's obvious.  But in case you missed it, Lavin isn't coaching and although he is recruiting there's no guarantee he ever comes back to coaching. 

I agree, that along as Lavin is COACHING and a part of this program, the recruits will come.  But why would I commit to Lavin when I watched all the other recruits commit to Lavin and have to play for Dunlap?

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

The same reason Lavin and staff was able to garner a top 5 recruiting class prior to any of the recruits seeing the 2010-2011 team in action.  That is why I feel they are capable of landing a solid, recruiting class in 2012.

Once again, you're speaking on your opinion like most are doing.  You're not being realistic (well, maybe in your world).  You're basing your opinion.  Most people like to hide behind being realistic when they are actually always being negative.

Everything I say is an accurate assessment of the program.  Players transferring, recruits ineligible, the current players moping on the court and not performing, Lavin not coaching, minimal fan support and just one recruit for next season. 

Instead of just showing your ignorance and stating taht I'm being overly negative, actually try refuting my claims to show you have an ounce of credibility in you. 

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 19, 2012, 12:29:56 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

The same reason Lavin and staff was able to garner a top 5 recruiting class prior to any of the recruits seeing the 2010-2011 team in action.  That is why I feel they are capable of landing a solid, recruiting class in 2012.

Once again, you're speaking on your opinion like most are doing.  You're not being realistic (well, maybe in your world).  You're basing your opinion.  Most people like to hide behind being realistic when they are actually always being negative.

Everything I say is an accurate assessment of the program.  Players transferring, recruits ineligible, the current players moping on the court and not performing, Lavin not coaching, minimal fan support and just one recruit for next season. 

Instead of just showing your ignorance and stating taht I'm being overly negative, actually try refuting my claims to show you have an ounce of credibility in you. 

Everything you say is an accurate assessment of the program in your mind.  Players transfer from most programs (some of your better programs) every, single season.  Most of us know about the ineligibles; we've seen some moping; we know Lavin isn't coaching; the fan support has always been that way unless the team was winning; and, many know there will be more recruits coming in next season.  Otherwise, you're a genius.  Regardless, you generally post your opinion and try to pass it off as being a realist.  It's your opinion....  Fine!  You can stop masquerading your opinion, as being a realist, when it's generally negativity.

Far from showing any ignorance, punk!  You've long lost any credibility.

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Two words: Steve Lavin.  It's why Moe and the rest of the best class we have had in over 20 years decided to come here last year, and as long as Lavin is working to resurrect the program, top recruits will continue to come.   Bank on it.

Well, that's obvious.  But in case you missed it, Lavin isn't coaching and although he is recruiting there's no guarantee he ever comes back to coaching. 

I agree, that along as Lavin is COACHING and a part of this program, the recruits will come.  But why would I commit to Lavin when I watched all the other recruits commit to Lavin and have to play for Dunlap?

Everything I have read and heard tells me that Lavin IS coming back next year.  So until I hear otherwise (and not just from Baldi ), I stand by my previous post. You can certainly have a different opinion.  It's America, you're entitled.

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:05:10 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 19, 2012, 12:29:56 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

The same reason Lavin and staff was able to garner a top 5 recruiting class prior to any of the recruits seeing the 2010-2011 team in action.  That is why I feel they are capable of landing a solid, recruiting class in 2012.

Once again, you're speaking on your opinion like most are doing.  You're not being realistic (well, maybe in your world).  You're basing your opinion.  Most people like to hide behind being realistic when they are actually always being negative.

Everything I say is an accurate assessment of the program.  Players transferring, recruits ineligible, the current players moping on the court and not performing, Lavin not coaching, minimal fan support and just one recruit for next season. 

Instead of just showing your ignorance and stating taht I'm being overly negative, actually try refuting my claims to show you have an ounce of credibility in you. 

Everything you say is an accurate assessment of the program in your mind. 

In any realistic persons mind....again, try refuting that this program isn't in bad shape. 

Players transfer from most programs (some of your better programs) every, single season.

As a stand-alone the transfers wouldn't look so bad but when combined with everything else it just makes things worse and becomes part of the major problem.

Most of us know about the ineligibles; we've seen some moping; we know Lavin isn't coaching; the fan support has always been that way unless the team was winning;

So, we're in agreement?  Or are you going to try to spin all this into a positive?

many know there will be more recruits coming in next season. 

I have no doubt there will be recruits next season.  There's plenty of malik stith's out there dieing to play in the big east when they belong in the maac.  Until there is actual major talent signed, I think it's fair to worry about our class next season.

you're a genius

I'm nowhere near a genius, but I'm certainly smarter than you.

punk!

U mad? 

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 01:00:55 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 19, 2012, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 19, 2012, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 19, 2012, 11:56:40 AM

I don't know why so many posters want us to run more.  Sure, it would look more exciting on TV but these kids haven't shown the ability to even execute a 3 on 1 break properly.

What do you think needs to happen then Will?

Pick a topic.. any of the areas where you constantly tell us the program is failing (off the top of my head: a) fan support b) player development c) recruiting)
and let's hear what you think should be done.

We might be wrong when some posters, including myself, suggest we speed up the offense.. but it's a debate worth having.  I've heard other posters say we need to play less zone, focus our recruiting on local kids or shooters, or make student tickets free.   I don't agree with all that, and some of them are flat out terrible ideas but we can at least talk about it.   

We all know we lost last night.  And you're right it was damn ugly.  But if you don't think things are going the way they should, let's hear what you would do.  And I don't mean that to be entirely critical, because I think you bring balance to the board sometimes when we start talking about imminent Final Fours.  But, really man, screaming "its f*$3ing broke!!" doesn't help unless you've got an idea to fix it.

For the fist time in a while i'm speechless...I really have no suggestions.  Well, I do...especially with regards to fan support, but apathy is beginning to set in with regards to that topic. 

I think we're in a bad place.  Not as bad as the norm years, but still bad nonetheless.  I think we will be better next season, provided none of our players transfer, which I still think is a strong possibility. 


For the life of me I can't understand why a top level recruit would want to play for st. john's at this point.  The lure of the Garden is no longer, our fan support stinks, and the product on the floor is embarassing.  I'm not be negative to be negative, I think I'm speaking realistically.  I wish things were different...trust me.

Why would a ricardo gathers choose st. john's over say UConn, Kansas, Kentucky or Florida? (not sure which schools he is considering---just using examples for comparison purposes.)

Two words: Steve Lavin.  It's why Moe and the rest of the best class we have had in over 20 years decided to come here last year, and as long as Lavin is working to resurrect the program, top recruits will continue to come.   Bank on it.

Well, that's obvious.  But in case you missed it, Lavin isn't coaching and although he is recruiting there's no guarantee he ever comes back to coaching. 

I agree, that along as Lavin is COACHING and a part of this program, the recruits will come.  But why would I commit to Lavin when I watched all the other recruits commit to Lavin and have to play for Dunlap?

Everything I have read and heard tells me that Lavin IS coming back next year.  So until I hear otherwise (and not just from Baldi ), I stand by my previous post. You can certainly have a different opinion.  It's America, you're entitled.

I certainly don't know whether or not Lavin will come back.  If I had to guess, I'd say YES.  but my point is there is no guarantee he comes back, and if you are a recruit how can you be so sure he's coaching enxt year?