Starting 5

Quote from: desco80 on April 19, 2012, 11:50:40 AM

Bobre's point shouldn't be dismissed.   It is late in the game.  And we don't have a big on the roster other than Gift.   

I don't think that's complaining.  It's concern.   And we should be concerned.   Again, we'll probably know a lot more in a week.   

Every point Bobre makes should be dismissed 

He is the same guy who complained days and posts on end saying we should have landed a point guard because there were so many out there. But when pressed numerous times could not provide one single name.

Haha  I hear you. 
I don't want to sound bi-polar, because I do have an enormous amount of faith in Coach.   And I think these fears will mostly be dismissed in a week or two, maybe a month. 

But even you have to admit Moose that our two biggest recruits; Obekpa and Chandler are completely up in the air right now.   No one has any idea if Chris O will sign with us, or if Chandler will be elidgible.
I agree with you that Sanchez is definately a hard lean our way, but that still leaves a big hole.

Are there other options out there?  Probably, but not that can have the impact those two would.   

Quote from: Moose on April 19, 2012, 11:53:17 AM

Quote from: desco80 on April 19, 2012, 11:50:40 AM

Bobre's point shouldn't be dismissed.   It is late in the game.  And we don't have a big on the roster other than Gift.   

I don't think that's complaining.  It's concern.   And we should be concerned.   Again, we'll probably know a lot more in a week.   

Every point Bobre makes should be dismissed 

He is the same guy who complained days and posts on end saying we should have landed a point guard because there were so many out there. But when pressed numerous times could not provide one single name.

Haha  I hear you. 
I don't want to sound bi-polar, because I do have an enormous amount of faith in Coach.   And I think these fears will mostly be dismissed in a week or two, maybe a month. 

But even you have to admit Moose that our two biggest recruits; Obekpa and Chandler are completely up in the air right now.   No one has any idea if Chris O will sign with us, or if Chandler will be elidgible.
I agree with you that Sanchez is definately a hard lean our way, but that still leaves a big hole.

Are there other options out there?  Probably, but not that can have the impact those two would.   

I don't see Chris signing and have felt that way for awhile.
It's pretty rare to get a 2nd chance at getting eligible and messing that up too.  From everything I heard Chandler is just a little lazy in the classroom he has the acumen.

But your right.  We will see soon.

Quote from: derk on April 19, 2012, 09:49:48 AM

Quote from: bobre45 on April 19, 2012, 09:14:33 AM

Quote from: desco80 on April 18, 2012, 11:26:47 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on April 18, 2012, 05:53:18 PM

Quote from: LJSA on April 18, 2012, 04:05:08 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on April 18, 2012, 09:51:21 AM

It's hard to name a position for Dom and Amir that doesn't put one of them on the bench.  DLo is a fixture at the two and I hope Greene gets every opportunity to get minutes at the point because he is an uber-athlete who makes us better.  Don't know anything about Branch but he doesn't deserve PT over Phil before he earns it. Jakarr is going to expect to be the next Moe (one and done) and Harrison is looking to go after this season so I hope we have a bag of players up our sleeve somewhere for the next couple of years.  I'll keep visiting the sites each morning looking for good news but I have to admit the the updates on Huggins boozing and the players we didn't get are starting to get to me.  Yeah patience, I know the deal but right now I'd settle for for news about an overweight 6'7" white kid who likes to bang.  Waiting for all these thoroughbreds to annoint us is frustrating.

Glad you aren't assembling this team. You've got us with an overweight 6'7" white guy and the sub-6-footer white guy.

I'll tell you one thing.  Playing with six kids is nonsense.  Another is that waiting till the bitter end for possible non-qualifiers or just plain rejections is a recipe for another losing season.  I'm very well aware of all the factors in play here but sometimes you have to relax your standards to fill your bench.  Rankings are just numbers and loads of kids come from nowhere come tourney time.  I just don't want to see a repeat of last year.  If Moe was brought along gradually instead of being thrown in the deep end of the pool he might even still be here and this post might not have come to mind.

I agree with a lot of what you said.  But I'm not sure about the rankings being just numbers.   I used to feel that way, and would throw my hands up and scream every time some no name scorched the nets in March.  But I'm really beginning to think the cream rises to the top.
Look at the sweet 16, I made this comment once before but 15 of the 16 teams that were there had top 100 talent at at least 3 or 4 of their starting five.   Ohio and DJ Cooper were the exception. 

There's such a microscope on HS ball these days I don't think as much talent slips through as it once did.
Some do, and others shine when surrounded by talent like Heslip on Baylor who can't play a lick of D, but he's on one of the longest, best rebounding and shot blocking teams around, so he can just run around screens all night.
But by and large we need the horses to compete.   
Obviously we can't be undermanned again, but I'd be very wary of just signing average bodies.   I'd be more inclined to hold out for the Chandler and Obekpas.   Within reason.

I agree that rankings serve a general purpose but it's still a team game.  It would be nice to be Kentucky and be able to withstand the loss of all your starters year to year but we're hardly in that position coming off a 13 win season and losing our top player.  Lavin's good but we've lost the momentum of our NCAA season and that's clearly hurt us. In retrospect losing Polee and kissing off Ron Roberts may have cost us a year with Moe.  Going into last season with Lindsey penciled in as the PG was also costly. I guess time will tell if his putrid shooting was an aberration. Thank God Greene was able to rise to the occasion and spare us further embarassment.  After playing with six we need some stability here.  If that means rolling the dice with a couple of under the radar types ala Evans or Horne I think we've got to think about it.  Like everyone else I hope Steve has some tricks up his sleeve but the longer we wait the harder it's going to be if things don't work out.  Most teams are stocked up at this point so I think we have reason to be concerned.  Another undermanned season would leave us behind the 8 ball unless we're able to compete better than last year and without Harkless I don't know about that.

I know you know this but unfortunately we are still trying to get out from under the mess left by the 6 year tenure of the previous administration. That being said we have to recruit a team with enough top 100 players to be competitive and simultaneously fill out a roster to avoid the situation we encountered last year.

IMO, we are involved with enough top 100 kids to feel safe about the talent level of the kids who will sign. Our # 1 need is a couple of big men. Right now CO and Sanchez are still taking their trips. Let them complete that process. If they don't sign on immediately after that ( next week sometime) then we seriously need to move on. Hopefully by that time the situations of Chandler and our other prospects will have cleared up so we can feel confident of filling out our roster.

While this is not an ideal situation it should lessen each year until we totally get out of the mess left by Norm, Harrington, and their ardent supporters, led by oldfan. Think of this. If Norm had won 1 or 2 more games at the end, we'd still be hearing about how you can't fire a coach with 2-3 years left on his contract. How bad would that have been. So waiting another week is a day at the beach compared to what could have been.

I hear you and agree that anything's better than Norm.  God knows if he'd had the intelligence to switch Hardy to the point we might be moaning about him still.  His love affair with Boothe bought him a ticket out of town.  His loss, our gain.  My biggest concern is where do we go if we do have to move on?  Our biggest problem last year was the lack of a fallback position when the class blew out.  Point guard and center are pretty important spots and we paid the price after the fact.  I shudder to think what would have happened if Greene hadn't been able to step up.  We seem to have the point shored up but bigs are hard to come by at this late date.  I'd be a lot more comfortable to have somebody large regardless of ranking, in the fold as things unfold. Repetitious whining I know but history has a way of repeating at SJU.  I've already mentioned that the mid majors we play always seem to have serviceable bigs and just wonder where they were when we were scouting the position.  As always fingers crossed on Sanchez and Chandler but wondering if there are alternatives if necessary.

I count CO, Sanchez, Chandler, Upshaw, Nolan as names we are pursuing. Plus whoever coach was scouting overseas. If we land two we'll be alright.

Quote from: bobre45 on April 19, 2012, 10:48:02 AM

Quote from: derk on April 19, 2012, 09:49:48 AM

Quote from: bobre45 on April 19, 2012, 09:14:33 AM

Quote from: desco80 on April 18, 2012, 11:26:47 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on April 18, 2012, 05:53:18 PM

Quote from: LJSA on April 18, 2012, 04:05:08 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on April 18, 2012, 09:51:21 AM

It's hard to name a position for Dom and Amir that doesn't put one of them on the bench.  DLo is a fixture at the two and I hope Greene gets every opportunity to get minutes at the point because he is an uber-athlete who makes us better.  Don't know anything about Branch but he doesn't deserve PT over Phil before he earns it. Jakarr is going to expect to be the next Moe (one and done) and Harrison is looking to go after this season so I hope we have a bag of players up our sleeve somewhere for the next couple of years.  I'll keep visiting the sites each morning looking for good news but I have to admit the the updates on Huggins boozing and the players we didn't get are starting to get to me.  Yeah patience, I know the deal but right now I'd settle for for news about an overweight 6'7" white kid who likes to bang.  Waiting for all these thoroughbreds to annoint us is frustrating.

Glad you aren't assembling this team. You've got us with an overweight 6'7" white guy and the sub-6-footer white guy.

I'll tell you one thing.  Playing with six kids is nonsense.  Another is that waiting till the bitter end for possible non-qualifiers or just plain rejections is a recipe for another losing season.  I'm very well aware of all the factors in play here but sometimes you have to relax your standards to fill your bench.  Rankings are just numbers and loads of kids come from nowhere come tourney time.  I just don't want to see a repeat of last year.  If Moe was brought along gradually instead of being thrown in the deep end of the pool he might even still be here and this post might not have come to mind.

I agree with a lot of what you said.  But I'm not sure about the rankings being just numbers.   I used to feel that way, and would throw my hands up and scream every time some no name scorched the nets in March.  But I'm really beginning to think the cream rises to the top.
Look at the sweet 16, I made this comment once before but 15 of the 16 teams that were there had top 100 talent at at least 3 or 4 of their starting five.   Ohio and DJ Cooper were the exception. 

There's such a microscope on HS ball these days I don't think as much talent slips through as it once did.
Some do, and others shine when surrounded by talent like Heslip on Baylor who can't play a lick of D, but he's on one of the longest, best rebounding and shot blocking teams around, so he can just run around screens all night.
But by and large we need the horses to compete.   
Obviously we can't be undermanned again, but I'd be very wary of just signing average bodies.   I'd be more inclined to hold out for the Chandler and Obekpas.   Within reason.

I agree that rankings serve a general purpose but it's still a team game.  It would be nice to be Kentucky and be able to withstand the loss of all your starters year to year but we're hardly in that position coming off a 13 win season and losing our top player.  Lavin's good but we've lost the momentum of our NCAA season and that's clearly hurt us. In retrospect losing Polee and kissing off Ron Roberts may have cost us a year with Moe.  Going into last season with Lindsey penciled in as the PG was also costly. I guess time will tell if his putrid shooting was an aberration. Thank God Greene was able to rise to the occasion and spare us further embarassment.  After playing with six we need some stability here.  If that means rolling the dice with a couple of under the radar types ala Evans or Horne I think we've got to think about it.  Like everyone else I hope Steve has some tricks up his sleeve but the longer we wait the harder it's going to be if things don't work out.  Most teams are stocked up at this point so I think we have reason to be concerned.  Another undermanned season would leave us behind the 8 ball unless we're able to compete better than last year and without Harkless I don't know about that.

I know you know this but unfortunately we are still trying to get out from under the mess left by the 6 year tenure of the previous administration. That being said we have to recruit a team with enough top 100 players to be competitive and simultaneously fill out a roster to avoid the situation we encountered last year.

IMO, we are involved with enough top 100 kids to feel safe about the talent level of the kids who will sign. Our # 1 need is a couple of big men. Right now CO and Sanchez are still taking their trips. Let them complete that process. If they don't sign on immediately after that ( next week sometime) then we seriously need to move on. Hopefully by that time the situations of Chandler and our other prospects will have cleared up so we can feel confident of filling out our roster.

While this is not an ideal situation it should lessen each year until we totally get out of the mess left by Norm, Harrington, and their ardent supporters, led by oldfan. Think of this. If Norm had won 1 or 2 more games at the end, we'd still be hearing about how you can't fire a coach with 2-3 years left on his contract. How bad would that have been. So waiting another week is a day at the beach compared to what could have been.

I hear you and agree that anything's better than Norm.  God knows if he'd had the intelligence to switch Hardy to the point we might be moaning about him still.  His love affair with Boothe bought him a ticket out of town.  His loss, our gain.  My biggest concern is where do we go if we do have to move on?  Our biggest problem last year was the lack of a fallback position when the class blew out.  Point guard and center are pretty important spots and we paid the price after the fact.  I shudder to think what would have happened if Greene hadn't been able to step up.  We seem to have the point shored up but bigs are hard to come by at this late date.  I'd be a lot more comfortable to have somebody large regardless of ranking, in the fold as things unfold. Repetitious whining I know but history has a way of repeating at SJU.  I've already mentioned that the mid majors we play always seem to have serviceable bigs and just wonder where they were when we were scouting the position.  As always fingers crossed on Sanchez and Chandler but wondering if there are alternatives if necessary.

I count CO, Sanchez, Chandler, Upshaw, Nolan as names we are pursuing. Plus whoever coach was scouting overseas. If we land two we'll be alright.

Upshaw committed to Fresno St.

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

So who do you want?

Cha

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 03:21:00 PM

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

So who do you want?

Chandler, Obepka, Sanchez and Hooper/French kid. And at the same time I'd like to hear that Balamou and Sampson are signed and eligible to play in 12-13. I don't want to hear that we are involved in more academic risks. That shouldn't happen again.

Cha

Quote from: Moose on April 19, 2012, 03:23:56 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 03:21:00 PM

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

So who do you want?

Chandler, Obepka, Sanchez and Hooper/French kid. And at the same time I'd like to hear that Balamou and Sampson are signed and eligible to play in 12-13. I don't want to hear that we are involved in more academic risks. That shouldn't happen again.

And if we dont get Chandler AND Obekpa?  Is the class is a disaster in your mind?

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 03:31:25 PM

Cha

Quote from: Moose on April 19, 2012, 03:23:56 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 03:21:00 PM

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

So who do you want?

Chandler, Obepka, Sanchez and Hooper/French kid. And at the same time I'd like to hear that Balamou and Sampson are signed and eligible to play in 12-13. I don't want to hear that we are involved in more academic risks. That shouldn't happen again.

And if we dont get Chandler AND Obekpa?  Is the class is a disaster in your mind?

I'm not the person the question was directed at..
But, for what it's worth, I think signing Chandler (and being elidgible) makes this a TERRIFIC class.
Needed to replace Moe - check.
Needed a pg - check.
Needed a true center - check.

Our 3 biggest weaknesses will have been answered.   
It doesn't solve everything; but getting a top 50 type player to answer your 3 biggest problems, is a VERY good step.

Now we still need front court depth, a shooter, maybe a shot blocker, and possibly another scoring option .... pick your poison.  But landing Obekpa or preferrably Chandler does complete the class in my eyes. 

Quote from: Moose on April 19, 2012, 03:33:33 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 03:31:25 PM

Cha

Quote from: Moose on April 19, 2012, 03:23:56 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 03:21:00 PM

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

So who do you want?

Chandler, Obepka, Sanchez and Hooper/French kid. And at the same time I'd like to hear that Balamou and Sampson are signed and eligible to play in 12-13. I don't want to hear that we are involved in more academic risks. That shouldn't happen again.

And if we dont get Chandler AND Obekpa?  Is the class is a disaster in your mind?

I'm not the person the question was directed at..
But, for what it's worth, I think signing Chandler (and being elidgible) makes this a TERRIFIC class.
Needed to replace Moe - check.
Needed a pg - check.
Needed a true center - check.

Our 3 biggest weaknesses will have been answered.   
It doesn't solve everything; but getting a top 50 type player to answer your 3 biggest problems, is a VERY good step.

Now we still need front court depth, a shooter, maybe a shot blocker, and possibly another scoring option .... pick your poison.  But landing Obekpa or preferrably Chandler does complete the class in my eyes. 

Exactly.  One big man (Chandler) completes the class and adding Sanchez and whoever else is gravy.  Only so many minutes to go around.  Bringing another big man clogs things up, could piss off current players and hurt us with future classes (evening out classes)  Hope other fans realize that as well.

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

Two more is enough.  Three would be gravy but Jakarr, Sanchez and one more would be three guys better suited to playing post defense than anyone on last year's team.  Given that the PG situation has already been addressed that would improve the team exponentially.

Question: how many big men do the other 15 BE team's have on their roster? If they all have one, I'll be okay with one. If they have all have 4, then I'd like 4 as well.

Question: how many big men do the other 15 BE team's have on their roster? If they all have one, I'll be okay with one. If they have all have 4, then I'd like 4 as well.

Answering a question with a question.  By big men do you mean those who can ONLY play Center?  Can they dabble as PF's and a team play 2 PF's at once?  Is there a height threshold where only 6'10 and above is considered big man?

Landing two isn't enough. We need to add at least 3 big men. Sanchez is a 3 who rebounds. He's not a center.

Sanchez is a 4

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 05:03:28 PM

Question: how many big men do the other 15 BE team's have on their roster? If they all have one, I'll be okay with one. If they have all have 4, then I'd like 4 as well.

Answering a question with a question.  By big men do you mean those who can ONLY play Center?  Can they dabble as PF's and a team play 2 PF's at once?  Is there a height threshold where only 6'10 and above is considered big man?

A big is like pornography-you know it when you see it. Basically anyone that can play the 4 or 5 legitimately-GG, JaKarr, Chandler, Opekba, and Sanchez would qualify while Amir although he may be capable of filling in at the 4 for short stretches is not a legit "big". IMHO

Quote from: Moose on April 19, 2012, 05:11:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 05:03:28 PM

Question: how many big men do the other 15 BE team's have on their roster? If they all have one, I'll be okay with one. If they have all have 4, then I'd like 4 as well.

Answering a question with a question.  By big men do you mean those who can ONLY play Center?  Can they dabble as PF's and a team play 2 PF's at once?  Is there a height threshold where only 6'10 and above is considered big man?

A big is like pornography-you know it when you see it. Basically anyone that can play the 4 or 5 legitimately-GG, JaKarr, Chandler, Opekba, and Sanchez would qualify while Amir although he may be capable of filling in at the 4 for short stretches is not a legit "big". IMHO

+1  Especially like the analogy to US S.Ct. Justice Potter Stewart's quote on porn. 

Quote from: Moose on April 19, 2012, 05:11:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 19, 2012, 05:03:28 PM

Question: how many big men do the other 15 BE team's have on their roster? If they all have one, I'll be okay with one. If they have all have 4, then I'd like 4 as well.

Answering a question with a question.  By big men do you mean those who can ONLY play Center?  Can they dabble as PF's and a team play 2 PF's at once?  Is there a height threshold where only 6'10 and above is considered big man?

A big is like pornography-you know it when you see it. Basically anyone that can play the 4 or 5 legitimately-GG, JaKarr, Chandler, Opekba, and Sanchez would qualify while Amir although he may be capable of filling in at the 4 for short stretches is not a legit "big". IMHO

I agree with you.  So landing just Chandler and Sanchez would give us 4 'bigs'.  Plenty IMO

We don't need 3 bigs added to what we have now.  We'd be more than fine with 2 including Sanchez.  We still have God'sGift back who manned the post last season.  We won't run a system that uses tonmof bigs anyway.  It's not our style.  Add Sanchez who is 6'8" or 6'9" and a massively athletic 4 to Jakarr and Gift.  Hopefully we also land Chandler who is a LEGIT big man, and we'd be extremely dangerous for any team next season.  We would have depth, height, athleticism, guards and even shooting if we add Bourgault.  I want Lavin to add two athletic bigs whomever the staff feels can get it done.  Our staff will get them game ready, that I have no doubt. 

We don't need 3 bigs added to what we have now.  We'd be more than fine with 2 including Sanchez.  We still have God'sGift back who manned the post last season.  We won't run a system that uses tonmof bigs anyway.  It's not our style.  Add Sanchez who is 6'8" or 6'9" and a massively athletic 4 to Jakarr and Gift.  Hopefully we also land Chandler who is a LEGIT big man, and we'd be extremely dangerous for any team next season.  We would have depth, height, athleticism, guards and even shooting if we add Bourgault.  I want Lavin to add two athletic bigs whomever the staff feels can get it done.  Our staff will get them game ready, that I have no doubt. 

I agree. How many proven bigs are left in big east now anyways? Im talking 6'10 and 7 footers. At this point, IMO Sanchez is a must, Chandler puts us over the top. Save the other schollys

Quote from: desco80 on April 19, 2012, 11:50:40 AM

Bobre's point shouldn't be dismissed.   It is late in the game.  And we don't have a big on the roster other than Gift.   

I don't think that's complaining.  It's concern.   And we should be concerned.   Again, we'll probably know a lot more in a week.   

Every point Bobre makes should be dismissed 

He is the same guy who complained days and posts on end saying we should have landed a point guard because there were so many out there. But when pressed numerous times could not provide one single name.

Anyone with Google and curiosity can find out who's available.  I'm also the same guy who said Moe was leaving early on.  We've needed bigs since then and I can't see how we've whiffed so many times since.  Then again I never thought I'd see a New York based BE team play with six kids.  But everything's just hunky dory..Right?