Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's

Lebron, wade, howard, paul, rose, durant, westbrook, rondo, love, dirk, lamarcus aldridge, kyrie, deron, kobe,     Thats 14 guys id take over melo in a heartbeat for next year, not even getting into guys that would be debatable like griffin, garnett, gasol, bynum, josh smith, horford, etc. 

Melo is a volume scorer and doesnt make his teammates better.  Pass.  As in on him and what he should do more of.

yes, yes, no, yes, yes, maybe, no, no, no, no, no, no, yes, in my opinion. Lbj, Wade, obviously, Howard, meh, he's a big defensive center with no offensive game, no thanks, Paul/Drose, sure (although D Rose is also a volume shooter who doesn't make his teammates all that better, but yeah he plays PG), I'll take Melo over Durant and his 35 foot jumpers, that shit dont fly in the playoffs. Westbrook is exciting, and also a chucker and a bad shot taker, like Rose, doesn't really improve his teammates from the PG spot. Rondo, possibly, he's really really good, but his shooting is gross, Love, possibly, also a volume scorer/great rebounder who plays no defense. Aldridge, hell no, Kyrie, we'll see in the next year or two, Kobe, sure, but I see Kobe as the best comp for Melo. If you put the right team around Melo, he becomes Kobe, imo, a deadly, icy veined mofo who will bury that shot at the end of the game.

 Kobe was called all of the same things Carmelo was, in between the Shaq chips and the Gasol/Bynum chips. The only difference is Melo didn't come into the league playing with Shaq in his prime and get that championship equity Kobe had for a minute.

But yeah, it's all Melo's fault, not D'antoni for running his team like it was a AAU squad, or Amare for just consistently being ineffective and hurt, yeah, no let's blame Melo, thats the easiest thing to do.

I mean, we are NY'ers, we are the smartest fans in the world blame our best players for the inefficiencies of other areas of our teams!

Quote from: Tha Kid on July 04, 2012, 12:23:14 AM

Lebron, wade, howard, paul, rose, durant, westbrook, rondo, love, dirk, lamarcus aldridge, kyrie, deron, kobe,     Thats 14 guys id take over melo in a heartbeat for next year, not even getting into guys that would be debatable like griffin, garnett, gasol, bynum, josh smith, horford, etc. 

Melo is a volume scorer and doesnt make his teammates better.  Pass.  As in on him and what he should do more of.

Aldridge, Bynum,KG,Josh Smith,Griffin,Horford and Kyrie Irving is laughable

+1  yep.   

Melo's not the best player in the league... but he's damn good, and like nrmax said, one of the few stars offensively.   
The way Melo played in the second half of this season was simply awesome.   
It's almost impossible to look great" unless you're surrounded by talent.   If the Knicks sign Nash, Melo is going to be in the running for an MVP next year.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on July 04, 2012, 08:02:08 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on July 04, 2012, 12:23:14 AM

Lebron, wade, howard, paul, rose, durant, westbrook, rondo, love, dirk, lamarcus aldridge, kyrie, deron, kobe,     Thats 14 guys id take over melo in a heartbeat for next year, not even getting into guys that would be debatable like griffin, garnett, gasol, bynum, josh smith, horford, etc. 

Melo is a volume scorer and doesnt make his teammates better.  Pass.  As in on him and what he should do more of.

Aldridge, Bynum,KG,Josh Smith,Griffin,Horford and Kyrie Irving is laughable

+1  yep.   

Melo's not the best player in the league... but he's damn good, and like nrmax said, one of the few stars offensively.   
The way Melo played in the second half of this season was simply awesome.   
It's almost impossible to look great" unless you're surrounded by talent.   If the Knicks sign Nash, Melo is going to be in
the running for an MVP next year.

Melo didn't start "playing well" until Amare and Lin got hurt. He's a very talented player, but he plays the game the wrong way, and that's why people don't like him here. Basketball isn't about isolating one guy on every possession so that he can score.

He might be the best one on one player in the world, but that hasn't made the Knicks a better team.

Quote from: Redstormy80 on July 03, 2012, 11:14:20 PM

Quote from: Poison on July 03, 2012, 10:08:04 PM

He has ruined the knicks

If the Knicks didn't have Melo they would of won 20 games this year. He's a top 10 player in the league and the best player they have had in a long time

I'd take everything back traded for Melo in a heartbeat and I think they'd be a better team

We all have different opinions and I respect yours but I 100% disagree. We gave up a few good pieces but nothing great. That team would not come close to competing with top teams. I realize the Knicks were only a 7 seed this year but if they can stay healthy and now that they actually have somebody who can coach in Woodson they could be very good.

It's funny how Melo is maligned for not passing the ball enough, did you guys see who he was out on the court with for most of the season? Remember against the Celtics in the playoffs last year when Melo was going the eff off, knocking down everything from everywhere, straight unconscious? Last play of the game, he is triple teamed, so he throws a perfect pass to Jarred Jeffries, WIDE OPEN underneath the hoop. Jeff botches the play, ends up getting blocked by Garnett, Knicks lose. After the game Melo is ripped up by fans and media for "not taking the big shot".

Melo is a willing passer, and a very good one too. This only becomes a problem when the guys on the floor with Melo can't hit the broad side of a barn. If the Knicks had an actual shooting guard who could shoot a basketball Melo would have had like 2 more assts per game over the year. I don't know how many times Landry brick layered (or airmailed) a wide open trey from Melo. Literally, I don't know how many times, I can't count that high.

Melo is a flawed player, but he is a damn star who can do everything on the court. Yeah he shoots a lot, because he is the best offensive player in the league. I don't want to hear about Durant, scared to shoot the ball in the 4th quarter vs Miami (if Lebron had KD's performance, he would be getting sodomized in the media right now), not to mention Melo is strong and can bully into the paint, KD will tip over with a light breeze.

Melo's a baller, let him ball. Or we could just run him out of town after we went through a year of trying to bring him to NY.

+1 except the part about Durant

Quote from: mjmaherjr on July 04, 2012, 09:41:31 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on July 03, 2012, 11:14:20 PM

Quote from: Poison on July 03, 2012, 10:08:04 PM

He has ruined the knicks

If the Knicks didn't have Melo they would of won 20 games this year. He's a top 10 player in the league and the best player they have had in a long time

I'd take everything back traded for Melo in a heartbeat and I think they'd be a better team

We all have different opinions and I respect yours but I 100% disagree. We gave up a few good pieces but nothing great. That team would not come close to competing with top teams. I realize the Knicks were only a 7 seed this year but if they can stay healthy and now that they actually have somebody who can coach in Woodson they could be very good.

For those who have blanked out the specifics of the acquisition:  Knicks got Melo as part of a 3-team trade.  He was traded by the Denver Nuggets with Renaldo Balkman, Chauncey Billups, Anthony Carter and Shelden Williams to the New York Knicks; the Denver Nuggets traded a 2015 2nd round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Kosta Koufos to the Denver Nuggets; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Corey Brewer to the New York Knicks; the New York Knicks traded Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, cash, a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Quincy Miller), a 2013 2nd round draft pick and a 2014 1st round draft pick to the Denver Nuggets; and the New York Knicks traded Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph and cash to the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Melo has talent. Unfortunately Melo is all about Melo and more Melo. Have I said Melo enough? Chill I mean MELO out.

That means you missed three guys def better than melo in deron kobe and kyrie.

Quote from: Tha Kid on July 04, 2012, 12:23:14 AM

Lebron, wade, howard, paul, rose, durant, westbrook, rondo, love, dirk, lamarcus aldridge, kyrie, deron, kobe,     Thats 14 guys id take over melo in a heartbeat for next year, not even getting into guys that would be debatable like griffin, garnett, gasol, bynum, josh smith, horford, etc. 

Melo is a volume scorer and doesnt make his teammates better.  Pass.  As in on him and what he should do more of.

I stopped reading after aldridge

Dude, howard and durant are undoubtedly and clearly better than carmelo.  Yes aldridge is debatable and kyrie depends on how he does, but come on, you wouldnt deal melo for durant or howard in a heartbeat? Seriously?

Dont blame dantoni.   Dantoni was hired to run his offense and donnie walsh was filling the squad with guys who successfully implemented that offense - amare, felton, chandler, and of course gallinari who was already there was perfect for it.  Dolan forced them to deal for melo resulting in walsh stepping down and dantoni being screwed over.  Melo is the last guy who can work in dantonis offense (and in my opinion, in any offense) so dont blame dantoni.  He was there first.  Dolan #$%^ed it all up.  They should have dealt all those guys for deron. 

yes, yes, no, yes, yes, maybe, no, no, no, no, no, no, yes, in my opinion. Lbj, Wade, obviously, Howard, meh, he's a big defensive center with no offensive game, no thanks, Paul/Drose, sure (although D Rose is also a volume shooter who doesn't make his teammates all that better, but yeah he plays PG), I'll take Melo over Durant and his 35 foot jumpers, that shit dont fly in the playoffs. Westbrook is exciting, and also a chucker and a bad shot taker, like Rose, doesn't really improve his teammates from the PG spot. Rondo, possibly, he's really really good, but his shooting is gross, Love, possibly, also a volume scorer/great rebounder who plays no defense. Aldridge, hell no, Kyrie, we'll see in the next year or two, Kobe, sure, but I see Kobe as the best comp for Melo. If you put the right team around Melo, he becomes Kobe, imo, a deadly, icy veined mofo who will bury that shot at the end of the game.

 Kobe was called all of the same things Carmelo was, in between the Shaq chips and the Gasol/Bynum chips. The only difference is Melo didn't come into the league playing with Shaq in his prime and get that championship equity Kobe had for a minute.

But yeah, it's all Melo's fault, not D'antoni for running his team like it was a AAU squad, or Amare for just consistently being ineffective and hurt, yeah, no let's blame Melo, thats the easiest thing to do.

I mean, we are NY'ers, we are the smartest fans in the world blame our best players for the inefficiencies of other areas of our teams!

Aldridge, Bynum,KG,Josh Smith,Griffin,Horford and Kyrie Irving is laughable

Most of those guys I said was a toss up.  But if I was the knicks GM id take kyrie over carmelo.  Knicks dont need aldridge bynum kg smith griffin horford bc they already have amare and chandler...but you better believe boston would not deal kg for carmelo and LA would not deal bynum for carmelo

That means you missed three guys def better than melo in deron kobe and kyrie.

Quote from: redstorm212 on July 04, 2012, 08:34:32 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on July 04, 2012, 12:23:14 AM

Lebron, wade, howard, paul, rose, durant, westbrook, rondo, love, dirk, lamarcus aldridge, kyrie, deron, kobe,     Thats 14 guys id take over melo in a heartbeat for next year, not even getting into guys that would be debatable like griffin, garnett, gasol, bynum, josh smith, horford, etc. 

Melo is a volume scorer and doesnt make his teammates better.  Pass.  As in on him and what he should do more of.

I stopped reading after aldridge

Kyrie Irving is better than Carmelo Anthony? Maybe if you are building a team you take Kyrie simply based on age and potential. But, right now it's not even debatable, Carmelo is way better.

IMO melo is one of the 2 best scorers in the game along with KD but the difference is melo has a post game unlike KD and i agree melo needs to pass more

Quote from: nrmax88 on July 04, 2012, 09:39:59 AM

It's funny how Melo is maligned for not passing the ball enough, did you guys see who he was out on the court with for most of the season? Remember against the Celtics in the playoffs last year when Melo was going the eff off, knocking down everything from everywhere, straight unconscious? Last play of the game, he is triple teamed, so he throws a perfect pass to Jarred Jeffries, WIDE OPEN underneath the hoop. Jeff botches the play, ends up getting blocked by Garnett, Knicks lose. After the game Melo is ripped up by fans and media for "not taking the big shot".

Melo is a willing passer, and a very good one too. This only becomes a problem when the guys on the floor with Melo can't hit the broad side of a barn. If the Knicks had an actual shooting guard who could shoot a basketball Melo would have had like 2 more assts per game over the year. I don't know how many times Landry brick layered (or airmailed) a wide open trey from Melo. Literally, I don't know how many times, I can't count that high.

Melo is a flawed player, but he is a damn star who can do everything on the court. Yeah he shoots a lot, because he is the best offensive player in the league. I don't want to hear about Durant, scared to shoot the ball in the 4th quarter vs Miami (if Lebron had KD's performance, he would be getting sodomized in the media right now), not to mention Melo is strong and can bully into the paint, KD will tip over with a light breeze.

Melo's a baller, let him ball. Or we could just run him out of town after we went through a year of trying to bring him to NY.

+1 except the part about Durant

Durants sick, and immensely talented. I just prefer Melo's offensive game, I don't like how Durant sometimes just settles for bomb tossing, but I wasn't trying to take anything away from KD, although I do believe if Lebron took one shot in the last 6 minutes of a game like KD did, he would be getting ripped apart for it.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on July 04, 2012, 08:02:08 AM

Aldridge, Bynum,KG,Josh Smith,Griffin,Horford and Kyrie Irving is laughable

Most of those guys I said was a toss up.  But if I was the knicks GM id take kyrie over carmelo.  Knicks dont need aldridge bynum kg smith griffin horford bc they already have amare and chandler..

Quote

.but you better believe boston would not deal kg for carmelo

and LA would not deal bynum for carmelo

lolz

Quote from: Marco Baldi on July 04, 2012, 08:02:08 AM

Aldridge, Bynum,KG,Josh Smith,Griffin,Horford and Kyrie Irving is laughable

Most of those guys I said was a toss up.  But if I was the knicks GM id take kyrie over carmelo.  Knicks dont need aldridge bynum kg smith griffin horford bc they already have amare and chandler...but you better believe boston would not deal kg for carmelo and LA would not deal bynum for carmelo

It's silly to compare centers and small forwards. LA wouldn't trade Bynum for Melo because if they did they would no longer have a center. Garnett is a HOFer, but he's old. Comparing him to Melo is even more difficult. Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, KD & James make sense. Among those, he's probably toasted the bottom.

Melo is a great scorer, but that alone doesn't make him a great player. 

Quote from: Tha Kid on July 04, 2012, 10:00:51 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on July 04, 2012, 08:02:08 AM

Aldridge, Bynum,KG,Josh Smith,Griffin,Horford and Kyrie Irving is laughable

Most of those guys I said was a toss up.  But if I was the knicks GM id take kyrie over carmelo.  Knicks dont need aldridge bynum kg smith griffin horford bc they already have amare and chandler...but you better believe boston would not deal kg for carmelo and LA would not deal bynum for carmelo

It's silly to compare centers and small forwards. LA wouldn't trade Bynum for Melo because if they did they would no longer have a center. Garnett is a HOFer, but he's old. Comparing him to Melo is even more difficult. Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, KD & James make sense. Among those, he's probably toasted the bottom.

Melo is a great scorer, but that alone doesn't make him a great player.

LeBron James is better then every single player in the league. That goes without saying. Melo isn't just a great scorer, he is a very underrated passer, he can handle the ball, he is among the best rebounders in the league at his position, and he can and very much did play some very good man to man defense down the stretch when the team began using a more defensive oriented gameplan . He also is not only a great scorer, he is the best and most well rounded scorer in the NBA. He can spot up shoot, he can get to the line, he can finish above the rim, he can post up, he can drive by you with quickness or bully his way into the paint with his strength, and his mid-range game is best in the NBA. He is a dynamic scorer who still hasn't even had a training camp with Amare Stoudemire, Jeremy Lin and Tyson Chandler. He hasn't had an offseason or preseason to prepare with his team since he got here, and there was more or less no practicing in the NBA last year. That said, things really came together for the Knicks at the end of the season, yeah they ran into a Miami buzzsaw and lost in 5. So did OKC. The Knicks showed some seriously encouraging signs towards the end of the season.

Is there that much of a difference between Melo and all of the other guys you named, though, outside of Lebron? Paul Pierce was considered a loser for most of his career, until he had Ray Allen and KG join up with him. Now he's a clutch big game performer and a hall of famer. Kobe Bryant came into the league and had immediate success...with the most dominant player this side of Wilt Chamberlain, in his prime. When Shaq left, Kobe struggled immensely(in a team success aspect), he missed playoffs completely in some years, and his character was questioned, that is until he got Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum emerged, and now he (Kobe) is the most driven, competitive cold blooded winner we have seen since Jordan. KD currently plays with 2 guys on his team who are better then any player Carmelo Anthony has ever played with (outside of possibly a year or two Melo played with Chauncey, where he and the Nuggets thrived), and they have a dominant shot blocking presence there as well.

Carmelo consistently took pretty crummy Denver teams to the playoffs pretty much by himself. Yeah, he got knocked out early every year, but so did Kobe with the Shaqless Lakers. Dwayne Wade didn't do shit without Shaq, early playoff exits and missed playoffs altogether. Steve Nash has missed the playoffs a couple years running now that he is alone, and we don't criticize him, we just call him the best PG ever.

The thing about the NBA, is that, if you're a really good player who plays on a team that isn't really good, you are considered a loser by a large population of NBA fans, mostly because the media is stupid and lazy, and Americans are generally a stupid and lazy people who don't really like to think that much and just regurgitate what they see on ESPN.

Melo will be seen as a loser and a cancer until he wins a ring. Which he probably will, because he is a winner, and he is really, really good. Watch what happens this year, with a full training camp with Melo, Lin, Stat, Chandler. They may not win a chip, but they will win their division and I think very possibly get a 2 or 3 seed and make a lot of noise in the post-season, and the perception of Melo will change completely.

Nrmax88:

Carmelo and Pierce on the surface look similar enough.  Pierce is 22ppg, 6rpg, 4 apg, and 1.5 spg for his career, Carmelo is 24.5ppg, 6rpg, 3apd, and 1 spg.  As for the most complete scorer in the NBA, Kobe and Pierce are more complete, IMO.  Let's just keep using Paul.  Paul is a 37% career 3 point shooter.  Melo is a 32% career 3 point shooter.  In fact, Pierce has not shot below 35% from 3 in a season since 2004. 

But the biggest difference lies within how they play.  Pierce definitely plays the most "hero ball" of any of the Celtics, but even from back when it was The Truth and Employee #8 manning the parquet Boston Garden floor, Pierce always has been able to score within the flow of the offense more easily than Carmelo.  While Pierce has a tendency to iso too much, Carmelo seems to have a tendency to iso all the time.  I could not even conceive of Carmelo sacrificing shots and PPG like Paul has.  Perfect example is this year with Amare, Lin, Chandler, etc.  Carmelo was in a funk and has never been able to integrate Amare properly, whereas Paul integrated KG and Allen flawlessly, and that is because Carmelo is a black hole on offense!  He may be one of the greatest black holes the NBA has ever seen, but he's a black hole nontheless.

This is why Carmelo will never win a title until he's older and KNOWS he is the 2nd or 3rd option at best.  On this knicks team, he's never going to defer enough to give them a shot to win.

The Knicks are probably a 5 seed, IMO.   I would go Miami, Boston, Indiana as the top 3 seeds next year, with New York, Brooklyn, and maybe Chicago depending on when Rose and Deng return and how healthy they are as the teams 4-6.  Maybe even Atlanta/Philly fighting for 4-6 too depending.

Sounds like Tha Kid is diagnosing Carmelo as suffering from Dominique Wilkins syndrome, which was always most noticeable against the Celtics.  In the first quarter Nique would hit his favorite shot enough times that he wanted the ball.  In the second quarter the Celtics would add token pressure and Nique would hit his favorite shot and his second move off the first shot fake enough times that he wanted the ball.  In the third quarter against a little more pressure Nique was no longer getting his first shot but made enough of his second option and third option shots that he wanted the ball.  In the fourth quarter as the defensive screws on Nique were really tightened and he occasionally was in position to take his third option shot, none of the Hawks were moving for Nique to pass to them so Nique shot anyway, the Celtics won, and the Atlanta fans wished that they had better players to go along with Nique.

Nrmax88:

Carmelo and Pierce on the surface look similar enough.  Pierce is 22ppg, 6rpg, 4 apg, and 1.5 spg for his career, Carmelo is 24.5ppg, 6rpg, 3apd, and 1 spg.  As for the most complete scorer in the NBA, Kobe and Pierce are more complete, IMO.  Let's just keep using Paul.  Paul is a 37% career 3 point shooter.  Melo is a 32% career 3 point shooter.  In fact, Pierce has not shot below 35% from 3 in a season since 2004. 

But the biggest difference lies within how they play.  Pierce definitely plays the most "hero ball" of any of the Celtics, but even from back when it was The Truth and Employee #8 manning the parquet Boston Garden floor, Pierce always has been able to score within the flow of the offense more easily than Carmelo.  While Pierce has a tendency to iso too much, Carmelo seems to have a tendency to iso all the time.  I could not even conceive of Carmelo sacrificing shots and PPG like Paul has.  Perfect example is this year with Amare, Lin, Chandler, etc.  Carmelo was in a funk and has never been able to integrate Amare properly, whereas Paul integrated KG and Allen flawlessly, and that is because Carmelo is a black hole on offense!  He may be one of the greatest black holes the NBA has ever seen, but he's a black hole nontheless.

This is why Carmelo will never win a title until he's older and KNOWS he is the 2nd or 3rd option at best.  On this knicks team, he's never going to defer enough to give them a shot to win.

The Knicks are probably a 5 seed, IMO.   I would go Miami, Boston, Indiana as the top 3 seeds next year, with New York, Brooklyn, and maybe Chicago depending on when Rose and Deng return and how healthy they are as the teams 4-6.  Maybe even Atlanta/Philly fighting for 4-6 too depending.

Yeah, Paul Pierce was definitely really good at getting his points in the flow of the offense back in the day as the Celtics finished with 50 losses every season. Pierce is a more well rounded scored the Carmelo? Disagree. You make that statement, and then cite nothing besides 3 point percentage. Melo's a very good shooter, and since he has joined the Knicks, has shot the 3 ball much better then he did in Denver. He also played with nobody for a good portion of the season and had to jack up a 3 at the end of the shot clock through no fault of his own. It's not Carmelo's fault that Amare hurt his back in the playoffs last year and then played awful for most of this season. All Amare did was stand at the elbow and brick jumper or charge into people all season long. Kevin Garnett, as much as it pains me, is a much, much better player then Amare Stoudemire, he integrated himself into that offense by doing what he was needed to do. Play defense, grab boards, defer to Pierce on offense, and knock down a mid range jumper when he got the ball, much like Bosh in Miami. Amare sucks right now, that is the problem with the Knicks. He is a big who can't rebound or play any type of man to man defense, and his dynamic offensive game has gone to shit, not because of Melo, but because Amare never bothered to learn any fundamental basketball skills (besides a mid range jumper, which has also gone to shit), and just relied on his athleticism, which is now deteriorating.

Melo isn't the problem. If Stat can come back healthy and even at 75 percent of what he was 2 years ago, than those two, along with Chandler and Lin actually practicing playing basketball together for the first time ever as Knicks, along with the addition of Jason Kidd, the Knicks, and Melo, will be very good this year. I still stand by what I said, Paul Pierce was considered a loser 7 years ago, much as Melo is now. People said the same things about Pierce you are saying about Anthony. People said Kobe couldn't win without Shaq, which was correct. You put some pieces around him and now he is compared with Jordan all the time.

I'm fully behind Melo. Always have been. He's flawed, but he's really good. He has every skill. His passing is always underrated. He isn't the ball hog he is always made out to be, he has never had another player to take any pressure off him offensively. Hopefully Amare can get back to the point where he can become that guy. Once he wins that ring though, everybody will say they knew he had it in him all along, he just needed the right circumstances.

Yeah, Paul Pierce was definitely really good at getting his points in the flow of the offense back in the day as the Celtics finished with 50 losses every season.

The Boston Celtics have lost 50+ games a whopping ONE time while Paul Pierce has been a Celtic, and that was in 2006-07 when Pierce missed 35 games due to injury, including the vast majority of their huge losing streak.  Suffice it to say, if Pierce was healthy all season, they wouldnt have lost 50.

Pierce made 4 playoffs pre-Big Three, including a conference finals.  For an example of the caliber of talent Pierce had around him, this was his team in 2005-06:

20 yr old Al Jefferson
21 yr old Kendrick Perkins
Delonte West
Tony Allen
Raef Lafrentz
Ryan Gomes
Brian Scalabrine
Wally Szczerbiak
Dan Dickau
Gerald Green
Paul Pierce

A couple of other guys 12-14 like Olowokandi.  Yeah. 

Unfortunately we can't do it, but I'd guarantee that if you traded Pierce for Carmelo the last two years, the Knicks would have been better, and Amare would be happy.