Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2012, 04:36:21 PM »
Why is it OK for Melo's effort to change drastically from D'Antoni to Woodson, but he doesnt get blamed for the lack of effort with D'Antoni, yet when you guys claim Amare just "stands around" under Woodson, he gets blamed?  Isn't it along the same lines?  And maybe he stands around because that is an NBA team's offense when Carmelo Anthony plays for you!

Because D'Antoni sucks. He's way too laid back and never pushes his players. Still no excuse to not give effort on D though. But it speaks volumes that Melo bought in once Woodson came aboard and Amare did not. The Knicks were 18-6 once Woodson took over. It's hard to say that this team can't work with Melo after knowing that. Lin and Melo showed flashes last year that they could play together. It's Amare that needs to suck it up and buy in, not Melo.
Think MJ, Kobe or Lebron had to be pushed by their coach to try on D. Melo was taking alot of heat for D'Antoni firing so he put out more for Woodson for 20 games. Let's see him do it all year. And melo had some pretty good teammates in Denver-wasn't all his doin winning 50 games.

Haha, so when he wins in Denver it's because he has really good teammates. But when he loses in NY, it's all his fault because he's a selfish ball hog. Makes sense.
Had Billups, healthy Kenyon martin, Nene off top of my head and others. If melo was so good the cast he has with knicks should do better than they have.

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2012, 04:40:05 PM »
Why is it OK for Melo's effort to change drastically from D'Antoni to Woodson, but he doesnt get blamed for the lack of effort with D'Antoni, yet when you guys claim Amare just "stands around" under Woodson, he gets blamed?  Isn't it along the same lines?  And maybe he stands around because that is an NBA team's offense when Carmelo Anthony plays for you!

Because D'Antoni sucks. He's way too laid back and never pushes his players. Still no excuse to not give effort on D though. But it speaks volumes that Melo bought in once Woodson came aboard and Amare did not. The Knicks were 18-6 once Woodson took over. It's hard to say that this team can't work with Melo after knowing that. Lin and Melo showed flashes last year that they could play together. It's Amare that needs to suck it up and buy in, not Melo.
Think MJ, Kobe or Lebron had to be pushed by their coach to try on D. Melo was taking alot of heat for D'Antoni firing so he put out more for Woodson for 20 games. Let's see him do it all year. And melo had some pretty good teammates in Denver-wasn't all his doin winning 50 games.

Haha, so when he wins in Denver it's because he has really good teammates. But when he loses in NY, it's all his fault because he's a selfish ball hog. Makes sense.
Had Billups, healthy Kenyon martin, Nene off top of my head and others. If melo was so good the cast he has with knicks should do better than they have.

Yes, he had a capable PG and another reliable scoring option in Billups. He didn't have that in NY last season especially in the playoffs.

18-6 under Woodson. Remember that.

Tha Kid

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2012, 04:41:05 PM »
redstorm212, you cite 18-6 under Woodson with Melo and Amare sucking?  What abotu the record under D'Antoni with Lin and no Melo?  We can cite lots of small sample sizes as to who was better and what.  If you believe D'Antoni doesnt push his players, you don't know anything.  Melo didn't buy in.  OF COURSE he bought in to woodson because he orchestrated D'Antonis' firing, it'd look absurd if he still didn't try!!

How would you feel if you were Amare that the other star player got your coach who you LIKED axed?  I wouldn't feel too good if I was him.  Back issues aside, Carmelo polarized that locker room.

And thanks Celtics11 --- Denver had much better teams than Boston did in those Melo/Pierce comparisons, so nrmax88, interesting, but not that relevant.
"I drink and I know things"

desco80

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2012, 04:42:28 PM »
So I've been following this Pro/Con Melo debate ... and I see one thing that keeps coming up that I mostly disagree with.

I'm not going to comment on whether Melo should pass more, or if he can be a "point forward" in the right system, maybe he can and maybe he should.  I don't know.

But the Knicks running an isolation for Carmelo on a big chunk of their possessions isn't by itself a bad thing.   I think some of us basketball purists fall in love with ball movement, a pretty pick and roll, or watching a classic shooter come off a screen for an open jump shot.

That's one way to play the game.  But for as long as the game has been played we've also seen guys take the ball on the wing/ at the point/ on the block, clear out their teammates, and then back-down, drive by, or pull up and fadeaway from a defender who's a mismatch for them.  That's good basketball. Wings like Jordan and Carmelo have done it, bigs have been doing it for eternity on the low block, even the great point guards would clear out and post up.

Anyway -  I think it's wrong to bash him just because the Knicks run isolation plays for him.   That's basketball 101.     And let's face facts... he is a matchup problem for big forwards who are too slow, or shorter guys over whom he can shoot.  He doesn't turn the ball over in those situations, shoots a good percentage, and gets to the line at a very good rate.   And, while you can debate his "selfishness", he's not stupid or overtly selfish in a basketball-sense... if he's double-teamed he passes it out.  He doesn't try to drive by 2 or 3 defenders.   And you can't say that for half the stars in the NBA.

There might be other reasons to knock Carmelo (defense, hustle, occasionally poor shot selection, not "setting-up" teammates).   But for the most part- the Knicks calling an iso for him is a smart and efficient play.   


Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2012, 04:43:12 PM »
I'm a Knick fan and what them and Melo to do well but why is there talk he can't play with Lin Cause he needs the ball in his hand-instead of in the pt g hands. The talk was get C Paul for a big 3-wouldn't C Paul have the ball in his hands more than Melo?

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2012, 04:52:08 PM »
redstorm212, you cite 18-6 under Woodson with Melo and Amare sucking?  What abotu the record under D'Antoni with Lin and no Melo?  We can cite lots of small sample sizes as to who was better and what.  If you believe D'Antoni doesnt push his players, you don't know anything.  Melo didn't buy in.  OF COURSE he bought in to woodson because he orchestrated D'Antonis' firing, it'd look absurd if he still didn't try!!

How would you feel if you were Amare that the other star player got your coach who you LIKED axed?  I wouldn't feel too good if I was him.  Back issues aside, Carmelo polarized that locker room.

And thanks Celtics11 --- Denver had much better teams than Boston did in those Melo/Pierce comparisons, so nrmax88, interesting, but not that relevant.

No, sorry, you're wrong. D'Antoni is notorious for not pushing his players, especially on D. I read somewhere that D'Antoni's teams get the most off days than any other team in the league. This team was going nowhere with D'Antoni. Bottom line is Melo did step up. 18-6 isn't really that small a sample size. It's enough to show you the Knicks are better off with Woodson. I agree there was no excuse for Melo not to put in effort under D'Antoni, but that is over and done with. As long as he keeps up this level of play the Knicks will be very good next year.

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2012, 09:22:39 PM »
D'Antoni was pushing for Melo to leave not the other way.....

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2012, 09:27:53 PM »
Amare dogged it under both coaches

boo3

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2012, 10:27:37 PM »
Amare dogged it under both coaches

 Wrong dude. He played great under D'antoni when he first got here.  They were chanting MVP at the garden on a regular basis.  He got hurt at the end of the year and his little brother was killed in an accident.

 What's Melo's excuse for dogging it under D'antoni?

boo3

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2012, 10:32:56 PM »
 Bottom line is that the Knicks aren't winning a championship anytime soon with Carmelo as the lead dog.  The freaking Nets will be better then them next year w/Howard.   So all this back and forth about who is the bigger dog, Melo or Amare, tells you all you need to know about the Knicks.

 What other NBA team can boast to have two players, both max contract, that only try when they feel like it?  Yay!  Go team...

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #70 on: July 09, 2012, 10:53:35 PM »
Amare dogged it under both coaches

 Wrong dude. He played great under D'antoni when he first got here.  They were chanting MVP at the garden on a regular basis.  He got hurt at the end of the year and his little brother was killed in an accident.

 What's Melo's excuse for dogging it under D'antoni?

Was a long time ago. What have you done for me lately?

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2012, 10:43:10 AM »
Nrmax88, no offense, but it disturbs me when knicks fans think like you.  And there are many of them.  Amare signed with the knicks when no one else would, and he embraced the role of alpha dog and was playing like an mvp candidate in dantonis system.  Then dolan #$%^ed everything up and forced melo into dantonis system and with amare, none of which was even a halfway intelligent idea, and walsh and dantoni and everyone else knew it.  Melo comes in and plays typical melo selfish ball whch is exacerbated because dolan made them deal away their goddamn point guard.  Then melo got the coach fired, the coach who amare signed with to play for, and oh yeah, baron davis was the pg, exacerbating the problem even more.

Amare went from savior of the knicks, the guy who signed with them when no one would, and mvp candidate...to most hated athlete in ny because of melo and his selfish ways.  Guess what? I dont give a damn that hes not a point guard, if hes a top ten player in the nba, then he should be good enough to realize what needs to be done, he also should try hard for whoever is coaching him, something he admittedly did not do with dantoni.  Melo is what is wrong with the nba.

Hopefully for all knciks fans sake melo will wake up and change.  But he is not the guy yet that can lead anyone to anything except a first round loss.

The Knicks were the only team stupid enough to offer a guy with chronic injury problems a 5yr 100million dollar contract. Savior? yeah right, anyone would take that money and run. Sure I loved him when he was playing great, but that's how it is with sports. You can't blame Melo for everything. Amare flat out stinks now. He didn't go from MVP candidate to completley worthless because Melo joined the Knicks. It's his own fault. The fact is he has one of the worst basketball IQ's in the league. He's not willing to step up his D like Melo did last season.

Also, the Melo trade was a good idea. We weren't going anywhere with that team anyway. I love Gallo, but he's way too inconsistent, and is a role player, most likely never an all star. Same with Wilson Chandler, he's a good solid role player. Felton is a back up PG now. Mosgov is a good solid backup center, but that's it. That was a good trade. Remember, we weren't exactly world beaters even before that trade, we were around .500. Did we give up too much? Probably, but in the long run, it's clear that super stars win championships, and we have one now in Melo. We just need to get the right team around him. Remember, Dirk Nowitzki was looked at the same way as Melo is now. Great player, but not good enough to lead his team to a championship. That wasn't the case, they just needed to get the right team around him.

People who blame Melo for everything are wrong. Let's look at the Knicks lineup Melo had to work with against the heat:

C-Chandler:

Not known for his offense. Can't create his own shot. Knicks had no capable point guard in the playoffs, therefore, Tyson was not a viable scoring option.

PF-Amare:

Punched a fire extinguisher.

SG-Landry Fields

He's Landry Fields...enough said.

PG-Baron Davis/Mike Bibby/Toney Douglas

Yeah, those were the Knicks point guards during the playoff series against the Miami Heat.  :o :2funny:

Bench: Novak, JR Smith, Jared Jeffries

JR Smith doesn't know when to stop shooting, even when he's only 30%. Jeffries may be the worst offensive player in the NBA. Novak was incapable of getting a shot off the entire series. Miami's closeouts were ridiculous.

My point is, what the hell did Melo have to work with? New York was doomed from the moment idiot Amare decided to take his anger out on that fire extinguisher, or perhaps when Lin hurt his knee. It's actually a miracle we were able to get one game, and that win can be credited almost completely to Carmelo as he had 40 points.

Carmelo needs a point guard to help see the floor and take the pressure off of him. I think a combo of Lin/Kidd will help with that.
Agree with Kid. And with those same players sans Melo J Lin lead them to 8wins in 9 games till Melo came back and worked his magic I mean selfish touch. Just ask G Karl about Melo he had him for all those years in Denver. You say you can't blame it all on Melo-why not it worked with Marbury? :)

George Karl can blow me. Ride Melo into the playoffs every year, never actually bother to play any real offense (ever realize that? The Nuggets don't have an offense. They just run around and play helter skelter ball. Karl is a blow hard who has taken every chance he has had to trash his best player on his way out the door. He's a no class loser. I'm glad he recovered from cancer, but somehow that has deluded people into believing he is anything other then a mediocreish coach.

Ok, great, Lin won 8 of 9 games against the easiest schedule in the NBA during that time period. The Knicks also finished the season something like 18-5 under Woodson, with Melo in the lineup. 8 out of 9.... "Wellll, WHOOOOOPTY DO BASIL"

Amare.... leader and alpha dog, if I would have had some grape juice in my mouth when I read that it would probably have been completely all over my computer screen.

Also, the kid, I appreciate how you base your entire argument on the fact that Pierce was a better team player, and somehow more well rounded on offense, and how even back in the day Pierce more likely to win. When I bring up the statistics to prove just how much better Carmelo did with his nothing teammates then Pierce did, you completely disregard/ignore it and move onto your next ESPN generated argument about un-quantifiable bullshit about alpha dogs and James Dolan and Amare being a savior. You do realize that Amare openly wanted to go the Heat, but they wanted Bosh, don't you? What am I saying, of course you don't! Miami realized Bosh would take a lesser role, play defense and rebound, and Bosh was as key to the chip as LBJ or Wade.

Dolan forced that trade? I'm pretty sure Donnie Walsh made that trade, you know, the same Donnie Walsh that openly admitted many, many times, that his goal was to add at least 2 star players, if not 3, to the Knicks roster. But yeah, sure, it sounds better to say Dolan forced this whole trade everybody's throat doesn't it? That supports your baseless agenda better. Then comes the "Oh no pooooor Coach Pringles". The way I see it, he resigned, he didn't get fired, because he is a bad coach who is a one trick pony and can't adapt to his players. A good coach would see Stat and Melo and realize how special they are and make the offense work around their skill sets, not Mike D, we keep run and gunning like we are the golden state warriors. No defensive philosophy installed at all.

As for why Melo didn't play defense enough during the Mike D era, I don't know. Maybe he was just being a typical star who thought his de wasn't that important and Coach D was to much of a wimp to stand up to his most expensive toy. I honestly don't know, but I do know he showed flashed of the ability to lock somebody down throughout his whole career, and under Woodson (you know, not George Karl or Mike D'antoni, who don't believe in actually coaching basketball and stuff) he worked extremely hard and looked very good on defense.

Nobody hates Stat because of Melo, why is this so hard for you to grasp? People hate Stat because he played absolutely atrocious basketball for the entire season, and capped it off by throwing his hand through a fire extinguisher window and incapacitating himself for half the series. Stat can whine like a baby for the next 3 years. or he can grow up, be a goddamnn man, and play the Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett role, score his 14/10, and commit to actually being a reliable part of our defensive rotations, not the guy who makes the other 4 look bad because he doesn't rotate or try to contest a shot.

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Think MJ, Kobe or Lebron had to be pushed by their coach to try on D. Melo was taking alot of heat for D'Antoni firing so he put out more for Woodson for 20 games. Let's see him do it all year. And melo had some pretty good teammates in Denver-wasn't all his doin winning 50 games.

Well, I don't really remember MJ until he was great, but to answer your first question in as quick a manner as possible, yes, I absolutely think Kobe and LBJ were pushed and worked hard to become better defenders. They both were much maligned for defense earlier in their playing days. Now LeBron is an elite defender.

And yes, with Woodson, we have to see him do it all year, although you were quite content using just as small a sample size proving that the Knicks were just as good pre Melo, even though they were basically a glorified 500 team when they acquired Carmelo.

Really, Melo had some pretty good teammates in Denver? In 7 years there? Interesting, how come you didn't even name on, single, solitary teammate that would have made an actual meaningful contribution there? As far as I can remember, they had Chauncey there, that's it, and during those years they won like 53 and 54 games. Sure, they had AI, but he was always super overrated and he was old and washed up by that period.

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Denver had much better teams than Boston did in those Melo/Pierce comparisons, so nrmax88, interesting, but not that relevant.

again, just repeating random statements doesn't make them any more true. Still have failed to name a single one of these great teammates Anthony had in Denver. Denvers teams were better because Melo is better then Pierce.

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Wrong dude. He played great under D'antoni when he first got here.  They were chanting MVP at the garden on a regular basis.

Yes, then we added more talent, and Amare went into full on Vagina mode and started whining. Playing soft. It's funny how you make excuses for Stat saying, "what would you do if Melo got your coach that you loved fired?

Well, 2 things. When Amare left PHX him and Pringles did not get along, not at all. I still don't really think they do. Amare came to NY because they offered the most money and they were the only team willing to go with no insurance. Secondly, what would I do if a coach I like got fired, hmmmm? I would be a man, a professional and play this childrens game for millions and millions of dollars. Lin liked Coach D, did he whine and pout afterwords? No, he played hard and acted like a professional. Come on man, at least the excuses made for Melo are somewhat legitimate.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 10:57:41 AM by nrmax88 »

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2012, 11:12:15 AM »
Why is it OK for Melo's effort to change drastically from D'Antoni to Woodson, but he doesnt get blamed for the lack of effort with D'Antoni, yet when you guys claim Amare just "stands around" under Woodson, he gets blamed?  Isn't it along the same lines?  And maybe he stands around because that is an NBA team's offense when Carmelo Anthony plays for you!

Because D'Antoni sucks. He's way too laid back and never pushes his players. Still no excuse to not give effort on D though. But it speaks volumes that Melo bought in once Woodson came aboard and Amare did not. The Knicks were 18-6 once Woodson took over. It's hard to say that this team can't work with Melo after knowing that. Lin and Melo showed flashes last year that they could play together. It's Amare that needs to suck it up and buy in, not Melo.
Think MJ, Kobe or Lebron had to be pushed by their coach to try on D. Melo was taking alot of heat for D'Antoni firing so he put out more for Woodson for 20 games. Let's see him do it all year. And melo had some pretty good teammates in Denver-wasn't all his doin winning 50 games.

Haha, so when he wins in Denver it's because he has really good teammates. But when he loses in NY, it's all his fault because he's a selfish ball hog. Makes sense.
Had Billups, healthy Kenyon martin, Nene off top of my head and others. If melo was so good the cast he has with knicks should do better than they have.

Yeah and that team won 54 games and went to an ECF. Had his team been that good since he came into the league, he probably wouldn't have left Denver. Also, Nene and K-Mart are good defensive players, but none of those even come close to being a second gun on a good team. As good as Tyson Chandler is, you can't count him as a guy who can take any pressure off anybody because he can't score. K-Mart and Nene are defenders/rebounders and also have very limited offensive games. When the playoffs come, teams focus on your best player. You can't lock down LBJ because he has Wade, and Bosh, who is supremely skilled offensively for a big. Those teams in Denver got to the playoffs and it was Melo time, everybody knew it. But the thing is, he was winning lots of games and making the playoffs every year.

For example, his 05-06 team had earl boykins, greg buckner, marcus camby, howard eisley, frankie elson, reggie evans, julius hodge, dermarr johnson, linas kleiza, vashon lenard, k-mart, andre miller, najera, ruben patterson, byron russell, charles smith, earl watkins.

BOOM! What a squad. 2 defensive big men, a middle of the road point guard, and Melo. Awesome. The next year their team was more or less the same, plus JR Smith, a washed up Iverson and uh-oh!!, Steve Blake baby! Loaded!!

The next year, a roster of Anthony, Chucky Atkins, Anthony Carter, Marcus Camby, Yahkouba Diawara, Taurean Green, Nene, Steven Hunter, AI, Bobby Jones, Linas Kleiza, K-Mart, Jelani McCoy, JR Smith, Eduardo Najera, Von Wafer and Mike Wilks won 50 games.

So yeah, if Melo's teammates were so bomb in Denver and they were winning close to 50 games every year, why would he have such an issue good teammates in NY?

The more likely scenario is that Denver stunk sans Melo, and George Karl is an absolute fool of a coach who can't design or call a play to save his life, let alone setup a defense, so for 7 years Melo went through Denver playing iso ball because that's what Denver does, and never learning or being yelled at to bother playing any defense, so now he has to adapt his game to play actual team basketball. Love how George Karl kept throwing the ball into Melo for 7 years and going into the playoffs and then calls him a ball hog and trashes him on the way out. Way to be classy Georgie! Maybe you should have actually done some coaching. We all saw Melo lead Cuse to a Natty playing in the flow of the offense as young freshman, why would we think he can't play team ball now?

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but why is there talk he can't play with Lin Cause he needs the ball in his hand-instead of in the pt g hands.

Because people are stupid and believe what some talking head on ESPN says is gospel. Why did the same analysts say that the Heat were done after they went down to Indiana? Why did the same analysts say the Heat were done when they went down 3-2 to Boston? The short answer is, because they don't know anything that we don't know, all they do is tell you the most recent thing that has happened, and then discuss it as if it is the only thing that has ever happened. People have short memories. If LBJ goes off one night, he is the best in the world. When he missed the last shot 2 nights later, he isnt even the best on his team anymore, he is a choking loser with a receding hairline. Nobody on ESPN or NBA TV tells you anything that anybody with half a functioning IQ couldn't tell you. They just take whatever just happened and beat it to death. Then people like you come onto message boards and pass off this garbage as your own thoughts.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:19:58 AM by nrmax88 »

Tha Kid

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2012, 11:14:07 AM »
Nrmax88:

1.  It is hilarious to me that you blame George Karl for no offense.  MELO IS THE REASON THERE IS NO OFFENSE.  Show me a team that Melo has played for that has successfully "run an offense".  Oh yeah there was one guy...D'Antoni...look how that turned out.  The only offense that works with Melo is Melo-ball.

2.  Your arguments are so absurd about comparing Carmelo and the Nuggets to Pierce and the pre-Big 3 Celtics that I can't even respond.  When Pierce had a haflway decent player with him (Toine before he got fat and traded), the Celtics did just as well as the Nuggets, and were still less talented than those Nuggets teams.  Pierce's teams WITHOUT Toine and without the Big 3 were at such a dearth for talent that it is scary.  When Ricky Davis is the next best player on your team, and Raef Lafrentz is the next highest paid player, there is a problem.  One of Melo's worst teams was the 05-06 Nuggets.  That team still had Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin, Nene, and Andre Miller --- alll players better than Pierce's 2nd best player in those teams that I mentioned.  So yeah, the situations aren't comparable.

3.  Donnie Walsh was forced to make a trade and RESIGNED AFTERWARDS BECAUSE OF IT.  Are you totally clueless?  He had NO desire to make that deal.

"I drink and I know things"

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2012, 11:24:08 AM »
Nrmax88:

1.  It is hilarious to me that you blame George Karl for no offense.  MELO IS THE REASON THERE IS NO OFFENSE.  Show me a team that Melo has played for that has successfully "run an offense".  Oh yeah there was one guy...D'Antoni...look how that turned out.  The only offense that works with Melo is Melo-ball.

2.  Your arguments are so absurd about comparing Carmelo and the Nuggets to Pierce and the pre-Big 3 Celtics that I can't even respond.  When Pierce had a haflway decent player with him (Toine before he got fat and traded), the Celtics did just as well as the Nuggets, and were still less talented than those Nuggets teams.  Pierce's teams WITHOUT Toine and without the Big 3 were at such a dearth for talent that it is scary.  When Ricky Davis is the next best player on your team, and Raef Lafrentz is the next highest paid player, there is a problem.  One of Melo's worst teams was the 05-06 Nuggets.  That team still had Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin, Nene, and Andre Miller --- alll players better than Pierce's 2nd best player in those teams that I mentioned.  So yeah, the situations aren't comparable.

3.  Donnie Walsh was forced to make a trade and RESIGNED AFTERWARDS BECAUSE OF IT.  Are you totally clueless?  He had NO desire to make that deal.

More speculation from you based on nothing but your own opinions. Caps lock is mad cool for when you can't gain an upperhand in a debate through logic, reason, and facts. WOOOHOOO FOR BIG LETTERS YEAHHH!

George Karl has been around way longer then Melo. He has always been known for running the "not an offense". He doesn't really have plays that they run, this is kind of common knowledge, he just lets them play, his main point of emphasis on the offense is to just run a lot, other then that basically everybody has free reign to do whatever the hell they want on offense.

And yeah, I guess it's not possible that Donnie Walsh took the job for a couple years, rebuilt the team, and then left, as was always planned, because he is like 90 and looks pretty damn broken down.

My question is, if Donnie was so hell bent against the trade, why did he make it? Why wouldn't he have simply resigned right on the spot, you know, instead of staying on for the draft and getting us Iman Shumpert? Donnie is a super proud guy who would not have been bullied by Dolan into making a trade he didn't want to make. But it supports your agenda better so by all means stick to that speculative story my boy.

But what I find the most amusing out of all of this is that whether it is me, redstorm, baldi, or somebody else, anytime somebody disproves one of your bogus theories, you completely ignore it and just move onto the next crazy topic, as if you never made the ridiculous first argument at all. Amare the savior, lol, the alpha dog, yeah, only he openly wanted to play in Miami. Thank you Amare, you saved me!!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:32:43 AM by nrmax88 »

desco80

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #75 on: July 12, 2012, 11:38:17 AM »
Nrmax88:

1.  It is hilarious to me that you blame George Karl for no offense.  MELO IS THE REASON THERE IS NO OFFENSE.  Show me a team that Melo has played for that has successfully "run an offense".  Oh yeah there was one guy...D'Antoni...look how that turned out.  The only offense that works with Melo is Melo-ball.


I've said this before, but why is running isos for your best player a bad basketball play all of a sudden?   That is offense 101!   
I don't understand why you think Melo driving, posting up, or shooting a jumper isn't offense... it is!

Running isolation plays for a guy who can drive by big forwards, or shoot over or post up smaller forwards, is common sense to me.  That's what you do when you have a mismatch.   Not every team is Stockton and Malone, or the Spurs, running pick and rolls every time down the court.   

Melo shoots a good percentage, gets to the foul line at a fantastic rate, and doesn't turn the ball over.   Him with the ball on the wing is a good play.   Boehim knew it, George Karl knew it, D'antoni knew it, and Woodson knows it.     Why are we all of a sudden calling this bad or selfish basketball?




Edit:   By the way, Denver ranked in the top 10 in scoring every year Melo was there.  And most years they were in the top 5.  Clearly they "successfully ran an offense"
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:40:48 AM by desco80 »

Tha Kid

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #76 on: July 12, 2012, 12:07:06 PM »
Quote from: nrmax88
My question is, if Donnie was so hell bent against the trade, why did he make it? Why wouldn't he have simply resigned right on the spot, you know, instead of staying on for the draft and getting us Iman Shumpert? Donnie is a super proud guy who would not have been bullied by Dolan into making a trade he didn't want to make. But it supports your agenda better so by all means stick to that speculative story my boy.

But what I find the most amusing out of all of this is that whether it is me, redstorm, baldi, or somebody else, anytime somebody disproves one of your bogus theories, you completely ignore it and just move onto the next crazy topic, as if you never made the ridiculous first argument at all. Amare the savior, lol, the alpha dog, yeah, only he openly wanted to play in Miami. Thank you Amare, you saved me!!

You realize James Dolan was Walsh's boss, right?  This wasn't a situation of questionable ethics where Walsh would be compromising his integrity by giving in.  Ultimately, you can argue and try to sway your boss all you want, but if he wants you to do something, you do it.  Resigning just because your boss didn't want you to do soemthing would be silly and be bad if you ever wanted another job.  It's not the honorable thing to do.  The honorable thing to do is stay on through the draft and then leave, like donny did.  Donny is now back with the Pacers.  He didn't want to leave New York, but he didn't want to deal with Dolan anymore.  This isn't speculation created by me...plenty of people have said it was the Melo deal that made Donnie want to resign.

Finally, when have you disproved me wrong on anything?  Do you still think a supporting cast of Camby, K-Mart, Andre Miller, and Nene is comparable to one of Ricky Davis, Wally World, and Raef Lafrentz?  let me know.....
"I drink and I know things"

Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #77 on: July 12, 2012, 12:23:59 PM »
Nrmax88:

1.  It is hilarious to me that you blame George Karl for no offense.  MELO IS THE REASON THERE IS NO OFFENSE.  Show me a team that Melo has played for that has successfully "run an offense".  Oh yeah there was one guy...D'Antoni...look how that turned out.  The only offense that works with Melo is Melo-ball.


I've said this before, but why is running isos for your best player a bad basketball play all of a sudden?   That is offense 101!   
I don't understand why you think Melo driving, posting up, or shooting a jumper isn't offense... it is!

Running isolation plays for a guy who can drive by big forwards, or shoot over or post up smaller forwards, is common sense to me.  That's what you do when you have a mismatch.   Not every team is Stockton and Malone, or the Spurs, running pick and rolls every time down the court.   

Melo shoots a good percentage, gets to the foul line at a fantastic rate, and doesn't turn the ball over.   Him with the ball on the wing is a good play.   Boehim knew it, George Karl knew it, D'antoni knew it, and Woodson knows it.     Why are we all of a sudden calling this bad or selfish basketball?




Edit:   By the way, Denver ranked in the top 10 in scoring every year Melo was there.  And most years they were in the top 5.  Clearly they "successfully ran an offense"
Problem is melo with Knicks is he is not shooting a good percentage. If he was I have no problem with him isolating and taking a lot of shots. I always want my best offensive players taking a lot of shots ie Dlo and Mo for us last yr. As for Nrmax88 my response to you is that your posts were so overly long (like a Red Sox-Yankee game) I didn't bother to read them (though I do watch Sox-Yank games this subject is just not that impt to me).

desco80

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #78 on: July 12, 2012, 01:19:07 PM »

Problem is melo with Knicks is he is not shooting a good percentage. If he was I have no problem with him isolating and taking a lot of shots. I always want my best offensive players taking a lot of shots ie Dlo and Mo for us last yr. As for Nrmax88 my response to you is that your posts were so overly long (like a Red Sox-Yankee game) I didn't bother to read them (though I do watch Sox-Yank games this subject is just not that impt to me).

Not to beat this like a dead horse, because I think we've debated all that can be said about Melo.
But, how much of that (his bad shooting) do you think can be attributed to him being hurt?   I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy, but he had a bad wrist in the beginning of the year.    I think we all got a bad taste in our mouth when he couldn't make a shot in February, but he's a career .450/.330 fg%/3pt%.     And early in the season he was shooting like .390/.260.   He's a lot better than that.

I think he was having trouble shooting early in the season, don't think it had anything to do with playing with J Lin or for D'antoni.   But who knows.   And yea I know it sounds like I'm making excuses for the guy. 

Tha Kid

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Re: Carmelo Anthony holding basketball camp at St. John's
« Reply #79 on: July 12, 2012, 01:28:04 PM »
Desco80 --- last season can be somewhat attributed to not having proper training camp, being out of shape, possibly injured, etc.  That was a widespread problem throughout the NBA.

However, re: your issue on what's wrong with running isos --- the problem is Carmelo doesn't pass.  He will take a bad shot over pass every day of the week and twice on Sundays.  You also have a volume shooter in Amare who needs to be given the ball, and if the PG is immediately passing to Melo every time, then the responsibility falls on Melo to help Amare get shots.  Everyone blames Amare, but he is a big man, his teammates need to facilitate him. It was probably easier for Melo to coexist with Iverson because Iverson got the ball before Melo (and Iverson was actually a decent passer too).

What the Knicks need to do is give Lin carte blanche to run the offense, and not have to worry about getting Melo 25 shots.  If sometimes Melo gets 15 and amare 20 that should be fine.  Problem is, when Melo doesnt get the ball, he doesnt try as hard.  If that changes, the Knicks have a chance to be a top 4 team in the East.   Otherwise, Miami, Boston, Indiana, and Brooklyn will finish ahead of the knicks.
"I drink and I know things"