Best backcourt in Big East?

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Chilleb

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #80 on: August 16, 2012, 01:15:34 AM »
Let's forget about scoring punch for 1 second from a depth perspective we have play making, defense, shooting and depth . Heck why not put us #3? And if G Whittington can play the 2 we offset that pointer and Amir who are premier lockdown defenders.

MCNPA

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #81 on: August 16, 2012, 01:15:56 AM »
If you were going to make the argument that Harrison and Branch/Greene aren't in the top half I'm guessing it'd go like this...
15 teams in the league, here are 7 you could argue are a step above ours... 

Syracuse - Triche/Carter Williams
Uconn - Boatright, Calhoun, Napier
ND - Naughton, Grant
Lousiville - Siva, Smith
PC - Council, Ledo/Dunn
Marquette - Cadougan, Blue, Mayo
Cinn - Kilpatrick, Cashmere


 I would say we compare very favorably to some of these teams, and unlike Louisville and ND who have proven post players they need to feed the ball to, our guards (especially D'angelo) will probably do the bulk of the scoring. 
We're top half.


Thanks for pulling some together.  I was too tired to try.

LVILLE
CUSE
UCONN

Are without question better.

PC if they get LEDO are also better OR if they have a healthy Dunn.  Otherwise move along.

ND I'm not so crazy about.  I like Marquette's but think were pretty much even with them.  And as for Cincy I prefer Green to Cashmere but Cash is more experienced.  Kilpatrick and Dee are a wash.

If we can't go off branch's ranking as merit then why mkw? Who played virtually no minutes last year and is "unproven" in full time duty. In addition Triche has underachieved IMO, I am anxiously waiting to see what he does this year. Lville and uconn get the nodd , and I'd even throw south Florida in there before ND. But after those 3 it's a toss up and SJU is heavily in the mix of things. d'lo is a ticking time bomb.

First of all its MCW not MKW :)

Secondly he played 10 mins a game on a loaded Cuse team.  I hate Cuse more than any team out there probably and I can respect when a kid is the real deal.  He is going to be a player.  Even mix in Cooney who is a sharpshooter and they could afford to redshirt.  They have compared him to GMac.  Triche always seems to hit the big shot.  They lost their glue in Scoop but should be just fine unfortunately.

USF has the PG no question.  But the 2G is a BIG question mark to me.
And cooney is no gmac with the ball, I'm sorry. 2 steps to slow. And yet another unproven guy. Our guys played 28 minutes+ last year

+1. If Cooney was McNamara, he'd never be redshirted.  If be surprised if he sees time.  Slower than SJU's slowest player.  Hey, I've been wrong before, but the kid doesn't look like he can drive past Moose... :2funny:

Do you think Cuse would have done the same with no Carter Williams?  Probably could have gotten away redshirting him.  They redshirted Cooney because they had experienced team and not enough room.   He has a couple inches on Mac and isnt the same distributor but I'd take his shot.

Don't worry Moose, Hooper is an even better shooter as Cooney and just as slow.  I'd love to see that one on one... ;). MCW is a total different story.  On another planet talent-wise than Cooney.  Like I said, I might be wrong, but Cooney isn't going to be the cult hero SU fans are thinking he will be.

MCNPA

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #82 on: August 16, 2012, 01:18:12 AM »
Let's forget about scoring punch for 1 second from a depth perspective we have play making, defense, shooting and depth . Heck why not put us #3? And if G Whittington can play the 2 we offset that pointer and Amir who are premier lockdown defenders.

If Whittington is a 2, we can just put Orlando on him and call it a day.  I'd take Orlando's foot speed any day at that height... ;D

Moose

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #83 on: August 16, 2012, 01:18:30 AM »
If you were going to make the argument that Harrison and Branch/Greene aren't in the top half I'm guessing it'd go like this...
15 teams in the league, here are 7 you could argue are a step above ours... 

Syracuse - Triche/Carter Williams
Uconn - Boatright, Calhoun, Napier
ND - Naughton, Grant
Lousiville - Siva, Smith
PC - Council, Ledo/Dunn
Marquette - Cadougan, Blue, Mayo
Cinn - Kilpatrick, Cashmere


 I would say we compare very favorably to some of these teams, and unlike Louisville and ND who have proven post players they need to feed the ball to, our guards (especially D'angelo) will probably do the bulk of the scoring. 
We're top half.


Thanks for pulling some together.  I was too tired to try.

LVILLE
CUSE
UCONN

Are without question better.

PC if they get LEDO are also better OR if they have a healthy Dunn.  Otherwise move along.

ND I'm not so crazy about.  I like Marquette's but think were pretty much even with them.  And as for Cincy I prefer Green to Cashmere but Cash is more experienced.  Kilpatrick and Dee are a wash.

If we can't go off branch's ranking as merit then why mkw? Who played virtually no minutes last year and is "unproven" in full time duty. In addition Triche has underachieved IMO, I am anxiously waiting to see what he does this year. Lville and uconn get the nodd , and I'd even throw south Florida in there before ND. But after those 3 it's a toss up and SJU is heavily in the mix of things. d'lo is a ticking time bomb.

First of all its MCW not MKW :)

Secondly he played 10 mins a game on a loaded Cuse team.  I hate Cuse more than any team out there probably and I can respect when a kid is the real deal.  He is going to be a player.  Even mix in Cooney who is a sharpshooter and they could afford to redshirt.  They have compared him to GMac.  Triche always seems to hit the big shot.  They lost their glue in Scoop but should be just fine unfortunately.

USF has the PG no question.  But the 2G is a BIG question mark to me.
And cooney is no gmac with the ball, I'm sorry. 2 steps to slow. And yet another unproven guy. Our guys played 28 minutes+ last year

+1. If Cooney was McNamara, he'd never be redshirted.  If be surprised if he sees time.  Slower than SJU's slowest player.  Hey, I've been wrong before, but the kid doesn't look like he can drive past Moose... :2funny:

Do you think Cuse would have done the same with no Carter Williams?  Probably could have gotten away redshirting him.  They redshirted Cooney because they had experienced team and not enough room.   He has a couple inches on Mac and isnt the same distributor but I'd take his shot.

Don't worry Moose, Hooper is an even better shooter as Cooney and just as slow.  I'd love to see that one on one... ;). MCW is a total different story.  On another planet talent-wise than Cooney.  Like I said, I might be wrong, but Cooney isn't going to be the cult hero SU fans are thinking he will be.

Man you got a great pair of rose colored glasses haha

Cooney is a Top 150 player with offers from ND, Ohio St, Pitt, Nova, Wake, WVU.  Hooper wasn't near that!

This is fun but I gotta be up in 5 hrs.  Enjoyed it.
Remember who broke the Slice news

Poison

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2012, 01:23:57 AM »
Stats mean nothing.  Lets stop keeping them.  Save paper.  Save bandwidth.

They are not meaningless, but they certainly do lie. What does it matter how many points someone scored in a blowout loss?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 09:04:06 AM by Poison »

MCNPA

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2012, 01:59:23 AM »
If you were going to make the argument that Harrison and Branch/Greene aren't in the top half I'm guessing it'd go like this...
15 teams in the league, here are 7 you could argue are a step above ours... 

Syracuse - Triche/Carter Williams
Uconn - Boatright, Calhoun, Napier
ND - Naughton, Grant
Lousiville - Siva, Smith
PC - Council, Ledo/Dunn
Marquette - Cadougan, Blue, Mayo
Cinn - Kilpatrick, Cashmere


 I would say we compare very favorably to some of these teams, and unlike Louisville and ND who have proven post players they need to feed the ball to, our guards (especially D'angelo) will probably do the bulk of the scoring. 
We're top half.


Thanks for pulling some together.  I was too tired to try.

LVILLE
CUSE
UCONN

Are without question better.

PC if they get LEDO are also better OR if they have a healthy Dunn.  Otherwise move along.

ND I'm not so crazy about.  I like Marquette's but think were pretty much even with them.  And as for Cincy I prefer Green to Cashmere but Cash is more experienced.  Kilpatrick and Dee are a wash.

If we can't go off branch's ranking as merit then why mkw? Who played virtually no minutes last year and is "unproven" in full time duty. In addition Triche has underachieved IMO, I am anxiously waiting to see what he does this year. Lville and uconn get the nodd , and I'd even throw south Florida in there before ND. But after those 3 it's a toss up and SJU is heavily in the mix of things. d'lo is a ticking time bomb.

First of all its MCW not MKW :)

Secondly he played 10 mins a game on a loaded Cuse team.  I hate Cuse more than any team out there probably and I can respect when a kid is the real deal.  He is going to be a player.  Even mix in Cooney who is a sharpshooter and they could afford to redshirt.  They have compared him to GMac.  Triche always seems to hit the big shot.  They lost their glue in Scoop but should be just fine unfortunately.

USF has the PG no question.  But the 2G is a BIG question mark to me.
And cooney is no gmac with the ball, I'm sorry. 2 steps to slow. And yet another unproven guy. Our guys played 28 minutes+ last year

+1. If Cooney was McNamara, he'd never be redshirted.  If be surprised if he sees time.  Slower than SJU's slowest player.  Hey, I've been wrong before, but the kid doesn't look like he can drive past Moose... :2funny:

Do you think Cuse would have done the same with no Carter Williams?  Probably could have gotten away redshirting him.  They redshirted Cooney because they had experienced team and not enough room.   He has a couple inches on Mac and isnt the same distributor but I'd take his shot.

Don't worry Moose, Hooper is an even better shooter as Cooney and just as slow.  I'd love to see that one on one... ;). MCW is a total different story.  On another planet talent-wise than Cooney.  Like I said, I might be wrong, but Cooney isn't going to be the cult hero SU fans are thinking he will be.

Man you got a great pair of rose colored glasses haha

Cooney is a Top 150 player with offers from ND, Ohio St, Pitt, Nova, Wake, WVU.  Hooper wasn't near that!

This is fun but I gotta be up in 5 hrs.  Enjoyed it.

Moose, I gotta be up in 4 hours... I have kids.  ;-).  Just joking about Hooper of course, although he is a better pure shooter than Cooney.  I just want to see if he can hang athletically at this level or if he's just Willie Dersch.

desco80

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #86 on: August 16, 2012, 07:05:44 AM »
I started that "MKW" nonsense hours ago with a typo, my apologies for that  :-[

As for the back-court argument I think we have comparable talent for a change, and that's a huge relief.   
Whether or not that talent meshes and creates production.... well, that's another story.   I don't think freshmen stats or recruiting rankings alone tell the whole story, although I admit that's all we have to go on right now.


BTW, add this to that Kemba - Phil Greene comparison..  Eugene Lawrence his frosh year averaged 7.3 and 4.   So, go figure.   3 very different players in terms of talent, all with nearly identical freshmen years. 



« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 07:18:44 AM by desco80 »

pmg911

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #87 on: August 16, 2012, 07:47:58 AM »
IMO, if the come to fruiting, Providence will have the most raw talent in their backcourt overall in Council, Ledo and Dunn. 3 fantastic players.

Not disagreeing but Dunn is "hoping" to be ready by conference play and Ledo is not going to eligible.

MCNPA

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2012, 09:35:06 AM »
IMO, if the come to fruiting, Providence will have the most raw talent in their backcourt overall in Council, Ledo and Dunn. 3 fantastic players.

Not disagreeing but Dunn is "hoping" to be ready by conference play and Ledo is not going to eligible.

Oh and obviously my typo should have meant comes to fruition...lol. I agree that Ledo likely won't be eligible and Dunn is injured and will have a long way to get up to speed.

Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #89 on: August 16, 2012, 10:29:12 AM »
I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.


No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

Lol... I'd rank Georgetown near last.  You are touting Markel Starks who averaged a non-existent 1.5 and 0.7 per game.  You then go to a guy in Smith-Rivera who hasn't played a game yet and then hang your hat on Whittington, a 6'8 220lb forward who has zero shot in hell at playing the SG spot.  Oh BTW, Trawick isn't near a SG either.   Georgetown returns exactly 1.5 and 0.7 En totale' in the backcourt yet you have the nerve to call Phil Greene unimpressive.  Effing joke.  If you had mentioned Domingo, maybe I'd have taken you seriously as he's a real talent with a shot at backcourt play,  but if Georgetown surprises, it certainly will be with new players as there is nobody returning In the backcourt that was "impressive".

Well I guess you missed all the time Whittington spent at SG last year then? DSR is a higher rated recruit than Branch who you guys are touting as being an impact player.  I assume you're saying Trawick isn't near a SG because he doesn't have a consistent outside shot, but He's definitely a back court player he's a great slasher and has actually improved his handle and distribution and could see spot minutes at PG. I assume the 1.5 and 0.7 are in reference to assists and steals but Starks alone has 1.6 and 0.6 but if you add in Whittington and Trawick it's 3 and 1.6. Which sure is not great. But you have to also realize that Georgetown's system is different with a lot of assists coming from the front court: Sims 3.5 assists, Porter 1.5assists, Thompson 1.5assists, Lubick 2 assists. Also our defensive system is focused on solid positional defense and not gambling and going for steals like st. john's system is. It also ignores points. Because the system gets assists from all positions on the court the back courts assist numbers are not as important. They'll also be doing the a large portion of the scoring this year. That being said Starks will definitely pick up his assist numbers. He has been working on that a lot this summer. Starks is going to be a big time scorer. He's going to double his PPG. 

Domingo Will play SF and could see some times at SG but will most likely see most of his time at SF backing up Porter. Whittington will play some SF too, but he'll start at SG unless DSR is too good to keep off the court. 

I can easily see people ranking Georgetown's back court in the bottom of the BE preseason. But at the end of the year they'll be near the top. I'm fine with people not being high on Georgetown's back court, I understand they have a lot to prove, but being familiar with the team I know that a lot of those questions have already been answered.  I never said Georgetown had one of the top back courts in the BE. I said they'd surprise people. Which means they won't be at the bottom of the BE which is how they're currently perceived.

Being proven and being overrated are not contradictions. You have to be rated to be overrated. Harrison has proven he's a high volume scorer. I think his numbers are a result of lack of other scoring options on your team last year. He's like Jeremy Hazell from Seton Hall. Good player, will put up a lot of points on a lot of shots, but I'm not a fan. And I said Greene was unimpressive in a subjective stats. His stats were decent, but I take all of St. John's stats from last year with a grain of salt due to the unusual situation of having no depth last year. Your starting 5 played pretty much all the minutes. Stats will be good as a result, but subjectively he has a poor outside shot a poor ORtg 88.8. He had a good assist rate but it was equal to his turnover rate.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 10:37:45 AM by hoyahooligan »

MCNPA

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2012, 10:56:56 AM »
I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.


No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

Lol... I'd rank Georgetown near last.  You are touting Markel Starks who averaged a non-existent 1.5 and 0.7 per game.  You then go to a guy in Smith-Rivera who hasn't played a game yet and then hang your hat on Whittington, a 6'8 220lb forward who has zero shot in hell at playing the SG spot.  Oh BTW, Trawick isn't near a SG either.   Georgetown returns exactly 1.5 and 0.7 En totale' in the backcourt yet you have the nerve to call Phil Greene unimpressive.  Effing joke.  If you had mentioned Domingo, maybe I'd have taken you seriously as he's a real talent with a shot at backcourt play,  but if Georgetown surprises, it certainly will be with new players as there is nobody returning In the backcourt that was "impressive".

Well I guess you missed all the time Whittington spent at SG last year then? DSR is a higher rated recruit than Branch who you guys are touting as being an impact player.  I assume you're saying Trawick isn't near a SG because he doesn't have a consistent outside shot, but He's definitely a back court player he's a great slasher and has actually improved his handle and distribution and could see spot minutes at PG. I assume the 1.5 and 0.7 are in reference to assists and steals but Starks alone has 1.6 and 0.6 but if you add in Whittington and Trawick it's 3 and 1.6. Which sure is not great. But you have to also realize that Georgetown's system is different with a lot of assists coming from the front court: Sims 3.5 assists, Porter 1.5assists, Thompson 1.5assists, Lubick 2 assists. Also our defensive system is focused on solid positional defense and not gambling and going for steals like st. john's system is. It also ignores points. Because the system gets assists from all positions on the court the back courts assist numbers are not as important. They'll also be doing the a large portion of the scoring this year. That being said Starks will definitely pick up his assist numbers. He has been working on that a lot this summer. Starks is going to be a big time scorer. He's going to double his PPG. 

Domingo Will play SF and could see some times at SG but will most likely see most of his time at SF backing up Porter. Whittington will play some SF too, but he'll start at SG unless DSR is too good to keep off the court. 

I can easily see people ranking Georgetown's back court in the bottom of the BE preseason. But at the end of the year they'll be near the top. I'm fine with people not being high on Georgetown's back court, I understand they have a lot to prove, but being familiar with the team I know that a lot of those questions have already been answered.  I never said Georgetown had one of the top back courts in the BE. I said they'd surprise people. Which means they won't be at the bottom of the BE which is how they're currently perceived.

Being proven and being overrated are not contradictions. You have to be rated to be overrated. Harrison has proven he's a high volume scorer. I think his numbers are a result of lack of other scoring options on your team last year. He's like Jeremy Hazell from Seton Hall. Good player, will put up a lot of points on a lot of shots, but I'm not a fan. And I said Greene was unimpressive in a subjective stats. His stats were decent, but I take all of St. John's stats from last year with a grain of salt due to the unusual situation of having no depth last year. Your starting 5 played pretty much all the minutes. Stats will be good as a result, but subjectively he has a poor outside shot a poor ORtg 88.8. He had a good assist rate but it was equal to his turnover rate.

Harrison is nothing like Hazell.  You obviously don't know much about basketball or haven't watched enough of either of them to say such a thing.  D'Angelo does a lot of things well and is far beyond anybody in Georgetown's backcourt right now.  Im not includingthe new guys.  Harrison's numbers were amazing considering he was only a freshman.  His decision making and shot selection should only get better.

You keep trying to squeeze guys like Whittington and Trawick into the backcourt which they are not.  They are both wing player's.  Small forwards to be clear, not guards. Not in any way.  Then you go to try to somehow inflate their numbers by combining one atrocious stat with another.  That math won't help you.

You take all SJU stats wi a grain of salt because we started all freshmen?  Does that somehow change their numbers?  Confusing.  Maybe we should take away UK's title since they had the "unusual" situation of starting all freshmen.  What type of dopey logic is that? 

"starks is going to be a big time scorer.  He's going to double his ppg".  Yeah, he'll really light it up with 3.2 ppg this year...  ;-). I'll take this years numbers with a grain salt though.

Oh and SJU's defense is based on positioning, not gambling.  We played a lot of zones.  The fact that we do sim to turn people over is part of our style.

Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #91 on: August 16, 2012, 11:14:04 AM »

"DSR is a higher rated recruit than Branch who you guys are touting as being an impact player."

DSR was 58 overall on ESPN.  Branch was 51.  Negligible difference in reality, and these rankings go out the window once the season starts, but Branch would be a top 5 ranked recruit on G'town right now.  We aren't sleeping on top 100 players on other teams.  You shouldn't either.


Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #92 on: August 16, 2012, 12:25:47 PM »
I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.


No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

Lol... I'd rank Georgetown near last.  You are touting Markel Starks who averaged a non-existent 1.5 and 0.7 per game.  You then go to a guy in Smith-Rivera who hasn't played a game yet and then hang your hat on Whittington, a 6'8 220lb forward who has zero shot in hell at playing the SG spot.  Oh BTW, Trawick isn't near a SG either.   Georgetown returns exactly 1.5 and 0.7 En totale' in the backcourt yet you have the nerve to call Phil Greene unimpressive.  Effing joke.  If you had mentioned Domingo, maybe I'd have taken you seriously as he's a real talent with a shot at backcourt play,  but if Georgetown surprises, it certainly will be with new players as there is nobody returning In the backcourt that was "impressive".

Well I guess you missed all the time Whittington spent at SG last year then? DSR is a higher rated recruit than Branch who you guys are touting as being an impact player.  I assume you're saying Trawick isn't near a SG because he doesn't have a consistent outside shot, but He's definitely a back court player he's a great slasher and has actually improved his handle and distribution and could see spot minutes at PG. I assume the 1.5 and 0.7 are in reference to assists and steals but Starks alone has 1.6 and 0.6 but if you add in Whittington and Trawick it's 3 and 1.6. Which sure is not great. But you have to also realize that Georgetown's system is different with a lot of assists coming from the front court: Sims 3.5 assists, Porter 1.5assists, Thompson 1.5assists, Lubick 2 assists. Also our defensive system is focused on solid positional defense and not gambling and going for steals like st. john's system is. It also ignores points. Because the system gets assists from all positions on the court the back courts assist numbers are not as important. They'll also be doing the a large portion of the scoring this year. That being said Starks will definitely pick up his assist numbers. He has been working on that a lot this summer. Starks is going to be a big time scorer. He's going to double his PPG. 

Domingo Will play SF and could see some times at SG but will most likely see most of his time at SF backing up Porter. Whittington will play some SF too, but he'll start at SG unless DSR is too good to keep off the court. 

I can easily see people ranking Georgetown's back court in the bottom of the BE preseason. But at the end of the year they'll be near the top. I'm fine with people not being high on Georgetown's back court, I understand they have a lot to prove, but being familiar with the team I know that a lot of those questions have already been answered.  I never said Georgetown had one of the top back courts in the BE. I said they'd surprise people. Which means they won't be at the bottom of the BE which is how they're currently perceived.

Being proven and being overrated are not contradictions. You have to be rated to be overrated. Harrison has proven he's a high volume scorer. I think his numbers are a result of lack of other scoring options on your team last year. He's like Jeremy Hazell from Seton Hall. Good player, will put up a lot of points on a lot of shots, but I'm not a fan. And I said Greene was unimpressive in a subjective stats. His stats were decent, but I take all of St. John's stats from last year with a grain of salt due to the unusual situation of having no depth last year. Your starting 5 played pretty much all the minutes. Stats will be good as a result, but subjectively he has a poor outside shot a poor ORtg 88.8. He had a good assist rate but it was equal to his turnover rate.

Harrison is nothing like Hazell.  You obviously don't know much about basketball or haven't watched enough of either of them to say such a thing.  D'Angelo does a lot of things well and is far beyond anybody in Georgetown's backcourt right now.  Im not includingthe new guys.  Harrison's numbers were amazing considering he was only a freshman.  His decision making and shot selection should only get better.

You keep trying to squeeze guys like Whittington and Trawick into the backcourt which they are not.  They are both wing player's.  Small forwards to be clear, not guards. Not in any way.  Then you go to try to somehow inflate their numbers by combining one atrocious stat with another.  That math won't help you.

You take all SJU stats wi a grain of salt because we started all freshmen?  Does that somehow change their numbers?  Confusing.  Maybe we should take away UK's title since they had the "unusual" situation of starting all freshmen.  What type of dopey logic is that? 

"starks is going to be a big time scorer.  He's going to double his ppg".  Yeah, he'll really light it up with 3.2 ppg this year...  ;-). I'll take this years numbers with a grain salt though.

Oh and SJU's defense is based on positioning, not gambling.  We played a lot of zones.  The fact that we do sim to turn people over is part of our style.

MCN Starks averaged 7 points a game last year
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

MCNPA

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #93 on: August 16, 2012, 12:46:47 PM »
I don't think it's unfair to rank our backcourt middle to bottom of the BE, because it is so unproven. When you have freshman, you hope they work hard over the summer and improve. Branch isn't a freshman, but he has zero conference play experience. There is no upperclassman in this backcourt because Nurideen Lindsey doesn't like being yelled at.

We're counting on:

- Harrison tightening up his defense.
- Greene working on his jump shooting, and passing.
- Branch stepping in and running the offense like a natural point guard. He missed most of last season, however, he did have the benefit of practicing     
  with the team for most of the season.
- Balamou is a mystery to me. He'll see time immediately, because we're thin until Branch arrives.


No matter how you shake it they scored 25 points a game combined last year.  They proved they can perform.  Efficiency will improve with more bodies, more options to draw attention, plus a full year of experience.

Why do I feel like talking to a wall sometimes where points like that are drastically overlooked?

Maybe because stats alone don't tell the entire story. If you were dead on about Harrison and Greene, then every college basketball analyst would write up a BE Preview that rated SJ favorably. Few are. There is a lot of talent. That we know, but there are also a lot of questions.

If 25 ppg was all we needed for our backcourt to be strong, then Hill and Jackson would have been strong.

Stats lie.

Do you expect their ppg to drop.  Regardless of more ppl on board I don't see their ppg dropping.  I see better shot selection, better defense,  better energy to play the at better defense and not hoist up jumpers with 2 seconds on the clock.  I mean I'm not a pie in the sky fan.  I am on record on what is successful this year in my mind.  But they are no doubt a top half backcourt in the BE.  And anyone who thinks Harrison is overrated (not you) is blind.

No, I expect Harrison and Greene to score more. And yes, I agree, Harrison is very, very good. But he was a freshman. We'll learn everything there is
to know about our 4 returning Sophs in November.

So by scoring more how are they not in the top half of BE backcourts.

Just because the BE is so deep at guard this year and your backcourt is still very inexperienced in comparison. Right now St. John's back court is 1 proven player in Harrison, a complete unknown Branch, and a sophomore who was unimpressive in his freshman campaign. When in doubt you go with experienced proven back courts. How would you rank the BE backcourts?

Lol... I'd rank Georgetown near last.  You are touting Markel Starks who averaged a non-existent 1.5 and 0.7 per game.  You then go to a guy in Smith-Rivera who hasn't played a game yet and then hang your hat on Whittington, a 6'8 220lb forward who has zero shot in hell at playing the SG spot.  Oh BTW, Trawick isn't near a SG either.   Georgetown returns exactly 1.5 and 0.7 En totale' in the backcourt yet you have the nerve to call Phil Greene unimpressive.  Effing joke.  If you had mentioned Domingo, maybe I'd have taken you seriously as he's a real talent with a shot at backcourt play,  but if Georgetown surprises, it certainly will be with new players as there is nobody returning In the backcourt that was "impressive".

Well I guess you missed all the time Whittington spent at SG last year then? DSR is a higher rated recruit than Branch who you guys are touting as being an impact player.  I assume you're saying Trawick isn't near a SG because he doesn't have a consistent outside shot, but He's definitely a back court player he's a great slasher and has actually improved his handle and distribution and could see spot minutes at PG. I assume the 1.5 and 0.7 are in reference to assists and steals but Starks alone has 1.6 and 0.6 but if you add in Whittington and Trawick it's 3 and 1.6. Which sure is not great. But you have to also realize that Georgetown's system is different with a lot of assists coming from the front court: Sims 3.5 assists, Porter 1.5assists, Thompson 1.5assists, Lubick 2 assists. Also our defensive system is focused on solid positional defense and not gambling and going for steals like st. john's system is. It also ignores points. Because the system gets assists from all positions on the court the back courts assist numbers are not as important. They'll also be doing the a large portion of the scoring this year. That being said Starks will definitely pick up his assist numbers. He has been working on that a lot this summer. Starks is going to be a big time scorer. He's going to double his PPG. 

Domingo Will play SF and could see some times at SG but will most likely see most of his time at SF backing up Porter. Whittington will play some SF too, but he'll start at SG unless DSR is too good to keep off the court. 

I can easily see people ranking Georgetown's back court in the bottom of the BE preseason. But at the end of the year they'll be near the top. I'm fine with people not being high on Georgetown's back court, I understand they have a lot to prove, but being familiar with the team I know that a lot of those questions have already been answered.  I never said Georgetown had one of the top back courts in the BE. I said they'd surprise people. Which means they won't be at the bottom of the BE which is how they're currently perceived.

Being proven and being overrated are not contradictions. You have to be rated to be overrated. Harrison has proven he's a high volume scorer. I think his numbers are a result of lack of other scoring options on your team last year. He's like Jeremy Hazell from Seton Hall. Good player, will put up a lot of points on a lot of shots, but I'm not a fan. And I said Greene was unimpressive in a subjective stats. His stats were decent, but I take all of St. John's stats from last year with a grain of salt due to the unusual situation of having no depth last year. Your starting 5 played pretty much all the minutes. Stats will be good as a result, but subjectively he has a poor outside shot a poor ORtg 88.8. He had a good assist rate but it was equal to his turnover rate.

Harrison is nothing like Hazell.  You obviously don't know much about basketball or haven't watched enough of either of them to say such a thing.  D'Angelo does a lot of things well and is far beyond anybody in Georgetown's backcourt right now.  Im not includingthe new guys.  Harrison's numbers were amazing considering he was only a freshman.  His decision making and shot selection should only get better.

You keep trying to squeeze guys like Whittington and Trawick into the backcourt which they are not.  They are both wing player's.  Small forwards to be clear, not guards. Not in any way.  Then you go to try to somehow inflate their numbers by combining one atrocious stat with another.  That math won't help you.

You take all SJU stats wi a grain of salt because we started all freshmen?  Does that somehow change their numbers?  Confusing.  Maybe we should take away UK's title since they had the "unusual" situation of starting all freshmen.  What type of dopey logic is that? 

"starks is going to be a big time scorer.  He's going to double his ppg".  Yeah, he'll really light it up with 3.2 ppg this year...  ;-). I'll take this years numbers with a grain salt though.

Oh and SJU's defense is based on positioning, not gambling.  We played a lot of zones.  The fact that we do sim to turn people over is part of our style.

MCN Starks averaged 7 points a game last year

My bad.  Pulled up his freshman stats.  They were however, "unimpressive"?  He could double them and still not hit D'Lo and his stats as a soph weren't much better than Greene.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 12:47:55 PM by MCNPA »

Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #94 on: August 16, 2012, 12:47:43 PM »
It's funny hearing people talk about our team that obviously have no idea what they are talking about. He probably watched 1-2 STJ games last year. And by that 1-2 games, D'Lo is overrated and our backcourt sucks.

I would respect your opinion more if you actually sounded like you'd seen STJ games last year. But, no one in the right mind would call D'Angelo Harrison overrated had they seen STJ play last year.

Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #95 on: August 16, 2012, 02:40:32 PM »
To MCNPA-if there is one thing I remember about Willie Dersch it was that he was athletic-no?

boo3

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #96 on: August 16, 2012, 05:21:34 PM »
 You guys are hysterical.  You beg the Hoya guy to give his opinion just so you can call him out on it.   He didn't watch every St.John's game just like you did not watch every G'town game. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. We are inflating our guys while deflating theirs...

 Hoya guy watched Harrison shoot 1-12 from the field in the game against them.  He is supposed to anoint him an AA now?

 Personally I think our backcourt is right in the middle of the pack of the BE.

Moose

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2012, 05:23:48 PM »
You guys are hysterical.  You beg the Hoya guy to give his opinion just so you can call him out on it.   He didn't watch every St.John's game just like you did not watch every G'town game. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. We are inflating our guys while deflating theirs...

 Hoya guy watched Harrison shoot 1-12 from the field in the game against them.  He is supposed to anoint him an AA now?

 Personally I think our backcourt is right in the middle of the pack of the BE.

Begged? 

I found it amusing a thread started on an STJ message board he ventured to and commented on everyone but the STJ backcourt.
Remember who broke the Slice news

boo3

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2012, 05:23:53 PM »
It's funny hearing people talk about our team that obviously have no idea what they are talking about. He probably watched 1-2 STJ games last year. And by that 1-2 games, D'Lo is overrated and our backcourt sucks.

I would respect your opinion more if you actually sounded like you'd seen STJ games last year. But, no one in the right mind would call D'Angelo Harrison overrated had they seen STJ play last year.

 Missing the point.. He said what his opinion was based on and what he saw. He knew no one on here would like it, but of course, everyone needed to hear him say some negative stuff so they could then let him know how dumb he is and smart they are.. 

 Harrison is a high volume scorer...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 05:24:18 PM by boo3 »

boo3

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Re: Best backcourt in Big East?
« Reply #99 on: August 16, 2012, 05:29:19 PM »
 I'm not saying I agree with his assessment, but what did you expect?  I'm not really interested on what his motives for coming on here were anyway.  I just never got the impression, that he comes here to troll.  I usually find his posts interesting and from a different perspective.

 Some of our guys tend to attack him, all the time though. It makes us look bad, not him.  Just my impression. Don't care if anyone agrees or not..