San Fran Game

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

Dunlap was on the bench during the Fordham debacle - easily the worst loss in the Lavin era. 

Just sayin is all....

Exactly.  Jeez a young team got punched in the mouth last night, responded a few times, but in the end did not do enough to overcome some glaring defensive lapses.

Now it is because they hired Darrick Martin?  Come on.

As choz says two years ago SJU lost 4 non-conference games including home to St. Bonaventure and at Rose Hill to a Fordham team that I think won 5 total games.  By the end of the season despite those bad losses had an RPI near 20.

Not saying they will have that same RPI but they have a long way to go and they get Branch in a few days, hopefully get Sanchez back and then the overall maturation of the this team will continue.  This team will not be the same team in February that it is now.

 This has to be one of the most schizophrenic fan bases around.   I just have to shake my head at some of the stuff.  Thanks for the entertainment though..

Quote from: shurinaCheese on December 05, 2012, 12:30:26 PM

no dunlap and what has martin brought to this team?

It's a fair question Ed.   

haaaaaaaaaaa

Quote from: MCNPA on December 05, 2012, 08:31:45 AM

Too many doom and gloomers after one game.  This was akin to our bad Fordham loss 2 years ago.  To say nobody is improving is absurd.  Bad games happen.  This one we lost.  To write the season off because of it is silly.

Can you give me 1 game this season where the team has looked really good?  A game where the team came out and played well in both the first and the second half

South Carolina

BTW Robby Benson is good, wish he was our point guard.

He developed a severe drug problem and switched to hockey in later films.  You wouldn't want him.

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

This is a conversation about X's and O's, if anything, Dunlap's reputation has grown with Charlotte's performance to date.

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

Read what I wrote; "this is not a knock on Darrick Martin".  Martin has a good resume, Dunlap and other x and o coaches have different resumes.

If you already have Isaiah Thomas do you trade for John Stockton or do you look for a post player?   

Saying we could've used a different type of assistant doesn't mean coach Martin isn't a valuable asset.   People bring different things to the table.   And my argument is just that our defense is a mess, Dunlap was a defensive specialist, we could've replaced him with a defensive oriented assistant.   That is all.
I'm fairly confident that doesn't qualify for a schizophrenic diagnosis.   Poor defense, maybe we could benefit from better defensive coaching.   
And I'm not even saying definitively that we would - but the fact that some of you can't even entertain that conversation is telling about your blindness to managing an organization. 

Quote from: Redstormy80 on December 05, 2012, 03:32:30 PM

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

This is a conversation about X's and O's, if anything, Dunlap's reputation has grown with Charlotte's performance to date.

Maybe to a broader audience but Dunlap has been considered a top basketball mind for a while, yet at times last year people were questioning him. As far as Darrick Martin is concerned, I dont know a whole lot about him and maybe you do but how do we know he's not a good X's and O's guy

Quote from: Redstormy80 on December 05, 2012, 03:32:30 PM

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

Read what I wrote; "this is not a knock on Darrick Martin".  Martin has a good resume, Dunlap and other x and o coaches have different resumes.

If you already have Isaiah Thomas do you trade for John Stockton or do you look for a post player?   

Saying we could've used a different type of assistant doesn't mean coach Martin isn't a valuable asset.   People bring different things to the table.   And my argument is just that our defense is a mess, Dunlap was a defensive specialist, we could've replaced him with a defensive oriented assistant.   That is all.
I'm fairly confident that doesn't qualify for a schizophrenic diagnosis.   Poor defense, maybe we could benefit from better defensive coaching.   
And I'm not even saying definitively that we would - but the fact that some of you can't even entertain that conversation is telling about your blindness to managing an organization.

Are you comparing Martin to Hines? Getting someone to replace Dunlap wasn't going to be easy, there aren't NBA head coaches who would accept being a St Johns assistant floating around. And maybe you and others know things about MArtin that I dont, but how do we know he isn't a defensive oriented assistant?

Give USF players and coaches credit, they scouted our team and executed their game plan well. All those who wanted to see us play man more, well you see why we don’t. Our help D and secondary rotations needs alot of work. The zone wasn’t working, so we went to man. Switching on D wasn’t the issue, Dom played their PG straight up the entire 2nd half and you would think Dom should be able to stop dribble penetration from their PG and he couldn’t. One thing was clear is that they were killing us in the half court game at both ends of the floor. We don't have shooters, and we don’t have anyone who can create for either themselves or others. We can’t play that way, we need to play up tempo and run. I would have liked to see how USF handled a press though.

Quote from: desco80 on December 05, 2012, 04:35:18 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on December 05, 2012, 03:32:30 PM

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

Read what I wrote; "this is not a knock on Darrick Martin".  Martin has a good resume, Dunlap and other x and o coaches have different resumes.

If you already have Isaiah Thomas do you trade for John Stockton or do you look for a post player?   

Saying we could've used a different type of assistant doesn't mean coach Martin isn't a valuable asset.   People bring different things to the table.   And my argument is just that our defense is a mess, Dunlap was a defensive specialist, we could've replaced him with a defensive oriented assistant.   That is all.
I'm fairly confident that doesn't qualify for a schizophrenic diagnosis.   Poor defense, maybe we could benefit from better defensive coaching.   
And I'm not even saying definitively that we would - but the fact that some of you can't even entertain that conversation is telling about your blindness to managing an organization.

Are you comparing Martin to Hines? Getting someone to replace Dunlap wasn't going to be easy, there aren't NBA head coaches who would accept being a St Johns assistant floating around. And maybe you and others know things about MArtin that I dont, but how do we know he isn't a defensive oriented assistant?

First of all I do know that we were interviewing or considering a list of candidates that included 2 NBA assistants and several long time college assistants with good reputations.
And on your second point; you're right I do not know that Darrick isn't a great defensive strategist- but I do know that he has spent exactly zero years before this one as a coach at any level.  He was an assistant player development director for the Timberwolves for 2 years.   Not an assistant coach.   There's a difference.   He was literally never a coach before now.   Plenty of people with little experience turn out to be great coaches.   But that's not the point.  You're asking how do I know he isn't a great defensive coach?  I don't, but other candidates had histories of coaching D, he didn't.   

Here's my argument:
Our defense is pretty poor right now.   Could it improve as the players get more experience ?  Yes, of course.
But, in hindsight, what could we have done differently to make our defense more sound?
1) Recruit and sign different players  (valid criticism, but these were mostly very heralded recruits)
2) Different head coach  (that wasn't going to happen)
3) Hire an assistant who teaches defense

This is not a hard concept, and despite your best attempts to turn it around, its not a critique of Darrick Martin.   Our defense is poor - Dunlap was a defensive specialist - Dunlap left - we could have hired an assistant who is known for teaching defense.

Quote from: stormwarning on December 05, 2012, 02:31:07 PM

a couple of posts complaining about the switching on defense.  supposedly, the team was built so that anybody could cover anybody.  the problem i saw last night was that nobody was able to contain doolin, whether it was on a switch or straight up.  to be fair to the team, some of it was due to those guys making some amazing plays and hitting their shots.  for example, saw chris pick up doolin off the screen and doolin made a nasty reverse layup.  just have to tip your hat on plays like that.

disagree. We are constantly being beaten off the dribble and we are supposed to be quick and athletic. this is a lack of the coaching staff driving home the proper techniques and fundamentals of defense. Bore them with a three hour practice of nothing but technique and proper footwork. Made that frisco kid look like Isaiah Thomas.

So you dont believe the staff teaches proper techniques or fundamentals of defense? I believe that is comical.

Quote from: Redstormy80 on December 05, 2012, 04:54:32 PM

Quote from: desco80 on December 05, 2012, 04:35:18 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on December 05, 2012, 03:32:30 PM

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

Read what I wrote; "this is not a knock on Darrick Martin".  Martin has a good resume, Dunlap and other x and o coaches have different resumes.

If you already have Isaiah Thomas do you trade for John Stockton or do you look for a post player?   

Saying we could've used a different type of assistant doesn't mean coach Martin isn't a valuable asset.   People bring different things to the table.   And my argument is just that our defense is a mess, Dunlap was a defensive specialist, we could've replaced him with a defensive oriented assistant.   That is all.
I'm fairly confident that doesn't qualify for a schizophrenic diagnosis.   Poor defense, maybe we could benefit from better defensive coaching.   
And I'm not even saying definitively that we would - but the fact that some of you can't even entertain that conversation is telling about your blindness to managing an organization.

Are you comparing Martin to Hines? Getting someone to replace Dunlap wasn't going to be easy, there aren't NBA head coaches who would accept being a St Johns assistant floating around. And maybe you and others know things about MArtin that I dont, but how do we know he isn't a defensive oriented assistant?

First of all I do know that we were interviewing or considering a list of candidates that included 2 NBA assistants and several long time college assistants with good reputations.
And on your second point; you're right I do not know that Darrick isn't a great defensive strategist- but I do know that he has spent exactly zero years before this one as a coach at any level.  He was an assistant player development director for the Timberwolves for 2 years.   Not an assistant coach.   There's a difference.   He was literally never a coach before now.   Plenty of people with little experience turn out to be great coaches.   But that's not the point.  You're asking how do I know he isn't a great defensive coach?  I don't, but other candidates had histories of coaching D, he didn't.   

Here's my argument:
Our defense is pretty poor right now.   Could it improve as the players get more experience ?  Yes, of course.
But, in hindsight, what could we have done differently to make our defense more sound?
1) Recruit and sign different players  (valid criticism, but these were mostly very heralded recruits)
2) Different head coach  (that wasn't going to happen)
3) Hire an assistant who teaches defense

This is not a hard concept, and despite your best attempts to turn it around, its not a critique of Darrick Martin.   Our defense is poor - Dunlap was a defensive specialist - Dunlap left - we could have hired an assistant who is known for teaching defense.

Isn't it fare to say that since we don't know what Coach Martin brings then we can not assume that he isn't a defense specialist? The defense wasn't good to begin with last year and we had Dunlap, we have young players' who are all learning a new system. This will take time.

Hey, we were outplayed and outcoached.  Their PG schooled us and their coach had Dirkson marking DLO most of the game successfully the way we should have Heslip.  We haven't gotten shots as open as they did all year.  We would win if we did.  Our guys should work on moving their feet instead of worrying about jumping out of the gym.

This has to be one of the most schizophrenic fan bases around.   I just have to shake my head at some of the stuff.  Thanks for the entertainment though..

And I thought the discussion of the Mayan myth of the end of the world were out there...........

Quote from: Happy on December 05, 2012, 02:56:31 PM

Quote from: shurinaCheese on December 05, 2012, 12:30:26 PM

no dunlap and what has martin brought to this team?

 Martin has only been here for 3 months  holy s#%T

That's not the point.   It's not a knock on Darrick Martin; it's just that his skills seem to be redundant on a staff that already has Tony and Rico.   
Dunlap was a completely different animal in terms of what he brought to the table.   We may not have been able to replicate him, but an assistant in that mold may have been more beneficial.
Totally legit conversation to have.   

Desco.  Dunlap was coaching in our collapses to St. Mary's, Fordham two years ago and early season lapses last year.  This is NOT a completely different animal.   Dunlap was no miracle panacea.  Even on those teams it took a while to jell and it was never in November.  C'mon people.  I have no doubt we collapsed at both ends yesterday.  I wil try to find the game somewhere but my bet is that it looked like Fordham 2 years ago.  We went on to destroy Duke, the national champ Uconn team and a bunch of others before DJ went down before tourney time. 

The overreaction here is incredible.  Now we need to change the coaching staff after a bad game?  We start 3 sophs and 2 freshmen.  Our next 3 off the bench are soph, freshman, freshman.  Our oldest player is the last man outside the rotation.   We are also missing Branch and Sanchez.  Could probably have used Gift.  Give it time people.  The kids need to learn to play consistent and smarter basketball the entire game.  There is a long season left and one bad loss doesn't make to team incapable of playing better.  We are capable of much more at both ends of the court.

Quote from: desco80 on December 05, 2012, 03:02:21 PM

Quote from: Happy on December 05, 2012, 02:56:31 PM

Quote from: shurinaCheese on December 05, 2012, 12:30:26 PM

no dunlap and what has martin brought to this team?

 Martin has only been here for 3 months  holy s#%T

That's not the point.   It's not a knock on Darrick Martin; it's just that his skills seem to be redundant on a staff that already has Tony and Rico.   
Dunlap was a completely different animal in terms of what he brought to the table.   We may not have been able to replicate him, but an assistant in that mold may have been more beneficial.
Totally legit conversation to have.   

Desco.  Dunlap was coaching in our collapses to St. Mary's, Fordham two years ago and early season lapses last year.  This is NOT a completely different animal.   Dunlap was no miracle panacea.  Even on those teams it took a while to jell and it was never in November.  C'mon people.  I have no doubt we collapsed at both ends yesterday.  I wil try to find the game somewhere but my bet is that it looked like Fordham 2 years ago.  We went on to destroy Duke, the national champ Uconn team and a bunch of others before DJ went down before tourney time. 

The overreaction here is incredible.  Now we need to change the coaching staff after a bad game?  We start 3 sophs and 2 freshmen.  Our next 3 off the bench are soph, freshman, freshman.  Our oldest player is the last man outside the rotation.   We are also missing Branch and Sanchez.  Could probably have used Gift.  Give it time people.  The kids need to learn to play consistent and smarter basketball the entire game.  There is a long season left and one bad loss doesn't make to team incapable of playing better.  We are capable of much more at both ends of the court.

+1. IMO this game was lost due to our lack of experience a lot more than coaching. Although, the leaving 3pt shooters wide open problem has irked me ever since Lavin got here. We gotta remember these are Freshman and Sophomores without a true PG. People quickly forget how bad we were in November to start the season two years ago.

Quote from: desco80 on December 05, 2012, 03:02:21 PM

Quote from: Happy on December 05, 2012, 02:56:31 PM

Quote from: shurinaCheese on December 05, 2012, 12:30:26 PM

no dunlap and what has martin brought to this team?

 Martin has only been here for 3 months  holy s#%T

That's not the point.   It's not a knock on Darrick Martin; it's just that his skills seem to be redundant on a staff that already has Tony and Rico.   
Dunlap was a completely different animal in terms of what he brought to the table.   We may not have been able to replicate him, but an assistant in that mold may have been more beneficial.
Totally legit conversation to have.   

Desco.  Dunlap was coaching in our collapses to St. Mary's, Fordham two years ago and early season lapses last year.  This is NOT a completely different animal.   Dunlap was no miracle panacea.  Even on those teams it took a while to jell and it was never in November.  C'mon people.  I have no doubt we collapsed at both ends yesterday.  I wil try to find the game somewhere but my bet is that it looked like Fordham 2 years ago.  We went on to destroy Duke, the national champ Uconn team and a bunch of others before DJ went down before tourney time. 

The overreaction here is incredible.  Now we need to change the coaching staff after a bad game?  We start 3 sophs and 2 freshmen.  Our next 3 off the bench are soph, freshman, freshman.  Our oldest player is the last man outside the rotation.   We are also missing Branch and Sanchez.  Could probably have used Gift.  Give it time people.  The kids need to learn to play consistent and smarter basketball the entire game.  There is a long season left and one bad loss doesn't make to team incapable of playing better.  We are capable of much more at both ends of the court.

 I'm with you also, MCNPA.  Lots of basketball yet to be played.  These kids have nowhere to go but up in their development. Lavin throughout is coaching career has been known to play around with both lineups and strategies in the beginning of seasons.  Lets see what works and what doesn't and move forward. 

 I'll be the first to admit that our defense on 3 point shooting is atrocious and, a times, our zone looks flat out bad.   When we did go to Man to Man last night their PG blew past everyone it seemed anyway. It wasn't our night.  On to the next one.

 We don't have go back in time, and second guess how the coaching staff was assembled though.  It seems a bit much.

Quote from: Redstormy80 on December 05, 2012, 04:54:32 PM

Quote from: desco80 on December 05, 2012, 04:35:18 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on December 05, 2012, 03:32:30 PM

The funny part is that if my memory serves me correct there were people complaining about Dunlap last year saying he cant relate to players, he isn't all his rep built him up to be etc.... Now I dont know what the responsibilities are for each coach, but I'm thrilled to have a coach who played for over a decade in the NBA, has NBA coaching experience and has received praise from the likes of Kurt Rambis & Magic Johnson.

Read what I wrote; "this is not a knock on Darrick Martin".  Martin has a good resume, Dunlap and other x and o coaches have different resumes.

If you already have Isaiah Thomas do you trade for John Stockton or do you look for a post player?   

Saying we could've used a different type of assistant doesn't mean coach Martin isn't a valuable asset.   People bring different things to the table.   And my argument is just that our defense is a mess, Dunlap was a defensive specialist, we could've replaced him with a defensive oriented assistant.   That is all.
I'm fairly confident that doesn't qualify for a schizophrenic diagnosis.   Poor defense, maybe we could benefit from better defensive coaching.   
And I'm not even saying definitively that we would - but the fact that some of you can't even entertain that conversation is telling about your blindness to managing an organization.

Are you comparing Martin to Hines? Getting someone to replace Dunlap wasn't going to be easy, there aren't NBA head coaches who would accept being a St Johns assistant floating around. And maybe you and others know things about MArtin that I dont, but how do we know he isn't a defensive oriented assistant?

First of all I do know that we were interviewing or considering a list of candidates that included 2 NBA assistants and several long time college assistants with good reputations.
And on your second point; you're right I do not know that Darrick isn't a great defensive strategist- but I do know that he has spent exactly zero years before this one as a coach at any level.  He was an assistant player development director for the Timberwolves for 2 years.   Not an assistant coach.   There's a difference.   He was literally never a coach before now.   Plenty of people with little experience turn out to be great coaches.   But that's not the point.  You're asking how do I know he isn't a great defensive coach?  I don't, but other candidates had histories of coaching D, he didn't.   

Here's my argument:
Our defense is pretty poor right now.   Could it improve as the players get more experience ?  Yes, of course.
But, in hindsight, what could we have done differently to make our defense more sound?
1) Recruit and sign different players  (valid criticism, but these were mostly very heralded recruits)
2) Different head coach  (that wasn't going to happen)
3) Hire an assistant who teaches defense

This is not a hard concept, and despite your best attempts to turn it around, its not a critique of Darrick Martin.   Our defense is poor - Dunlap was a defensive specialist - Dunlap left - we could have hired an assistant who is known for teaching defense.

I'm not turning it around as a critique of him at all. Now you said that there were other guys you may have preferred, thats fine. How ever, and this isn't necessarily aimed at you, but to all of a sudden question his value not even a month into the season is unfair.