San Fran Game

Could have used gods gift today

Quote from: Gray Chudney on December 05, 2012, 12:18:36 AM

For a possible bubble team, this will fall in the "bad loss" category on selection Sunday. I'd rather play a road game at a bad major conference school even if the rpi implications are worse.  Maybe it's just me but a loss on the road at a 15 win pac12 team optically seems better than a game like this. Where's the upside in scheduling them?

So we shouldn't even schedule one road test before BE play to help us prepare. How about winning the game. The fact we lost by 15 pts is quite telling and we shouldn't be worrying about rpi's we should be worried about becoming a better basketball team.

+1
The opponent and location we're not the problem.  Whether the opponent was USF or Oregon State wouldn't have mattered if we played like this.   
And we're not a bubble team; right now that's something we aspire to be. 

Could have used gods gift today

Not to mention against Murray and Baylor and the rest of our schedule.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on December 05, 2012, 12:18:36 AM

For a possible bubble team, this will fall in the "bad loss" category on selection Sunday. I'd rather play a road game at a bad major conference school even if the rpi implications are worse.  Maybe it's just me but a loss on the road at a 15 win pac12 team optically seems better than a game like this. Where's the upside in scheduling them?

So we shouldn't even schedule one road test before BE play to help us prepare. How about winning the game. The fact we lost by 15 pts is quite telling and we shouldn't be worrying about rpi's we should be worried about becoming a better basketball team.

We should schedule a road test that has the upside of being viewed as a resume building win. This game offers more in potential downside than its worth.  That's all.

And we should be worried about how the body of work looks. This team has tournament aspirations and inclusion /seeding is subjective.

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 05, 2012, 12:24:54 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on December 05, 2012, 12:18:36 AM

For a possible bubble team, this will fall in the "bad loss" category on selection Sunday. I'd rather play a road game at a bad major conference school even if the rpi implications are worse.  Maybe it's just me but a loss on the road at a 15 win pac12 team optically seems better than a game like this. Where's the upside in scheduling them?

So we shouldn't even schedule one road test before BE play to help us prepare. How about winning the game. The fact we lost by 15 pts is quite telling and we shouldn't be worrying about rpi's we should be worried about becoming a better basketball team.

We should schedule a road test that has the upside of being viewed as a resume building win. This game offers more in potential downside than its worth.  That's all.

And we should be worried about how the body of work looks. This team has tournament aspirations and inclusion /seeding is subjective.

I agree 100%.  We have played 4 of these games under Lavin (St. Mary's, Fordham, Detroit, USF) and have lost every single one of them.  You enter a hornet's nest and play a team who has nothing to lose and treats it as their Super Bowl.  Little upside to winning, big downside to losing.

Can't talk your way in-got to play your way in. moot point anyway since lavin had this game scheduled to return home and on a night his father was honored.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on December 05, 2012, 12:48:39 AM

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 05, 2012, 12:24:54 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on December 05, 2012, 12:18:36 AM

For a possible bubble team, this will fall in the "bad loss" category on selection Sunday. I'd rather play a road game at a bad major conference school even if the rpi implications are worse.  Maybe it's just me but a loss on the road at a 15 win pac12 team optically seems better than a game like this. Where's the upside in scheduling them?

So we shouldn't even schedule one road test before BE play to help us prepare. How about winning the game. The fact we lost by 15 pts is quite telling and we shouldn't be worrying about rpi's we should be worried about becoming a better basketball team.

We should schedule a road test that has the upside of being viewed as a resume building win. This game offers more in potential downside than its worth.  That's all.

And we should be worried about how the body of work looks. This team has tournament aspirations and inclusion /seeding is subjective.

I agree 100%.  We have played 4 of these games under Lavin (St. Mary's, Fordham, Detroit, USF) and have lost every single one of them.  You enter a hornet's nest and play a team who has nothing to lose and treats it as their Super Bowl.  Little upside to winning, big downside to losing.

Yeah a veritable murders row of opponents. A regular Duke and Kentucky non conference schedule. Fordham? Really? Just proves we are still a long way from where we hope to be.

It's the pre season, so this isn't the time to freak out, but fair is fair. This was a poor choice to schedule, and a poorly planned and played game. Lavin has Fordham Saturday. Hopefully, the kids will be inspired to play harder after a loss.

Suicide drills at 6 am might be good motivation.

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on December 05, 2012, 12:56:45 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on December 05, 2012, 12:48:39 AM

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 05, 2012, 12:24:54 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on December 05, 2012, 12:18:36 AM

For a possible bubble team, this will fall in the "bad loss" category on selection Sunday. I'd rather play a road game at a bad major conference school even if the rpi implications are worse.  Maybe it's just me but a loss on the road at a 15 win pac12 team optically seems better than a game like this. Where's the upside in scheduling them?

So we shouldn't even schedule one road test before BE play to help us prepare. How about winning the game. The fact we lost by 15 pts is quite telling and we shouldn't be worrying about rpi's we should be worried about becoming a better basketball team.

We should schedule a road test that has the upside of being viewed as a resume building win. This game offers more in potential downside than its worth.  That's all.

And we should be worried about how the body of work looks. This team has tournament aspirations and inclusion /seeding is subjective.

I agree 100%.  We have played 4 of these games under Lavin (St. Mary's, Fordham, Detroit, USF) and have lost every single one of them.  You enter a hornet's nest and play a team who has nothing to lose and treats it as their Super Bowl.  Little upside to winning, big downside to losing.

Yeah a veritable murders row of opponents. A regular Duke and Kentucky non conference schedule. Fordham? Really? Just proves we are still a long way from where we hope to be.

I know how ridiculous it sounds. But we are not a long way from being a tournament team. At large teams lose road non conference games. Especially those on the bubble. 19 reg season wins and a top 45 rpi is completely achievable. A loss like this could be the difference. No room for error now...

Tough loss.  I didn't see the game but we can I'll afford losses like this.  Another OOC loss and we will have to really run the conference slate.  Disappointed with this one.  This is a game we should have won regardless of whether it was a scrappy opponent.  Move on and get to winning again.

Maybe we can handle 1-52 Fordham.

We played one of the worst games defensively I've seen us play in years.  We switched nearly every screen, giving them tons of mismatches.  Our guards couldn't  contain a lick of dribble penetration and guys that didn't need to be in help position were helping and moving away from the shooters they needed to cover. Just a mindless game on the defensive end of the floor.  Only 2 bright spots tonight were Jakarr's offensive game and our rebounding (which was aided by the fact that USF didn't really crash the boards but instead aimed to get back and take away our transition game).  Gotta get better and be better on Saturday.

Could have used gods gift today

Why? You think he could have shut Doolin down?

We played one of the worst games defensively I've seen us play in years.  We switched nearly every screen, giving them tons of mismatches.  Our guards couldn't  contain a lick of dribble penetration and guys that didn't need to be in help position were helping and moving away from the shooters they needed to cover. Just a mindless game on the defensive end of the floor.  Only 2 bright spots tonight were Jakarr's offensive game and our rebounding (which was aided by the fact that USF didn't really crash the boards but instead aimed to get back and take away our transition game).  Gotta get better and be better on Saturday.

couldn't agree more.  there was no in-game adjustment made on doolan.  we kept pressing him, even though he showed time and time again that he could blow by our guys.  when you see that, you need to back off the guy and cut off his penetration...make him beat you from the outside.  thats basketball 101.  very low basketball iq, imho.  very surprised at the staff that we couldn't make an adjustment.  on the other hand, that game clearly demonstrates how important a passing game is, and how important it is to have a true point guard with high basketball iq.  hopefully branch can bring some of that to our team.

Is it just me or is anyone else concerned about the lack of game coaching, both prep and in-game?

Is it just me or is anyone else concerned about the lack of game coaching, both prep and in-game?

But you were not concerned in Lavs first year when we beat Duke, Uconn, Marquette, Pitt and Georgetown? It comes down to execution and talent level these are first and second year players who are going to have ups and downs.

Is it just me or is anyone else concerned about the lack of game coaching, both prep and in-game?

Not one to panic, but I do have such concerns. Theo's point, for example, about switching on all screens is a valid one and a coaching issue IMO. SF had an excellent game plan, pressuring ball and doubling Harrison coming off screens. I can't say I was impressed with our game plan and adjustments. Easy to chalk it all up to youth, but coaching at fault front and center last night. On to Fordham, who is miserable.

Quote from: Moon Mullin on December 05, 2012, 07:38:44 AM

Is it just me or is anyone else concerned about the lack of game coaching, both prep and in-game?

But you were not concerned in Lavs first year when we beat Duke, Uconn, Marquette, Pitt and Georgetown? It comes down to execution and talent level these are first and second year players who are going to have ups and downs.

Did you notice that we also had an assistant coach named Dunlap, who also was on the bench.

There is no question this was a tough loss that will hurt us at the end of year if we are contending for a tournment spot.  Those that are jumping on coach (for either scheduling or in game coaching, however, need to calm down.  Lavin is coaching an exteremely young team.  As with any young team, our boys are going to have their ups and downs and are going to need time to learn both Lavin's system and how to conduct themselves at the college level.  Games like last night are good for young teams precisely because they are difficult.  The exposure to hostile crowds and unfamilair arenas helps build character and toughness in our young players.  They didn't get this one and thats too bad.  But now they have an experience from which they can build upon, learn and improve.  Today's failure is tomorrow's teachable moment.

There is no question this was a tough loss that will hurt us at the end of year if we are contending for a tournment spot.  Those that are jumping on coach (for either scheduling or in game coaching, however, need to calm down.  Lavin is coaching an exteremely young team.  As with any young team, our boys are going to have their ups and downs and are going to need time to learn both Lavin's system and how to conduct themselves at the college level.  Games like last night are good for young teams precisely because they are difficult.  The exposure to hostile crowds and unfamilair arenas helps build character and toughness in our young players.  They didn't get this one and thats too bad.  But now they have an experience from which they can build upon, learn and improve.  Today's failure is tomorrow's teachable moment.

We've only been hearing that for 2 years