Felipe Discussion from Rysheed Thread

You can say what ever you like...   Felipe is a Top 5 - 10 All Time player for St. John's.

He had no point guard to play with and Zendon Hamilton, while putting up good numbers, was one of the biggest black holes that has ever worn the SJU uniform.

Was Felipe the saviour people made him out to be - NO, was he an excellent college basketball player - YES

5-10 all time is way too high. You can't look at the body of work and ignore the details. For 3 years, he was in over his head, and flat out spooked by how opposing teams defended him. Yes, he had a strong senior year. It was great to see him put it all together, and go out with some dignity.

Top 10 SJ players should be legends on the court as well.

The only reason people hate on Felipe and Zendon is the fact that we didn't win those years. That htred should fall directly on the shoulders of Brian Mahoney. Fran took those kids to NCAA as seniors.  Sure I was disappointed with the mediocre play but they worked hard but staff didn't add an elite point guard either.

You can say what ever you like...   Felipe is a Top 5 - 10 All Time player for St. John's.

He had no point guard to play with and Zendon Hamilton, while putting up good numbers, was one of the biggest black holes that has ever worn the SJU uniform.

Was Felipe the saviour people made him out to be - NO, was he an excellent college basketball player - YES

Amen, brother.

Usually, the legend tends to get bigger as guys gets older. For some reason, STJ fans like to diminish what Felipe did.

Great player who hit STJ at exactly the wrong time. Wish he would have arrived into a program with a staff like we have now. As it turned, the so-called "disappointment" of Felipe's career probably hurt us in the recruiting game for years.

In my books, he's one of our all-time greats – on the court and as a character guy/good soldier who represented the school and program with honor.

You can say what ever you like...   Felipe is a Top 5 - 10 All Time player for St. John's.

He had no point guard to play with and Zendon Hamilton, while putting up good numbers, was one of the biggest black holes that has ever worn the SJU uniform.

This goes both ways. Zendon would have been a more effective player had Lopez had a jump shot. The problem with the Hamilton/Lopez tandem was that they were ill suited to playing together. Rather than complementing each one's shortcomings magnified the other's.

Quote from: pmg911 on December 04, 2012, 09:04:28 AM

You can say what ever you like...   Felipe is a Top 5 - 10 All Time player for St. John's.

He had no point guard to play with and Zendon Hamilton, while putting up good numbers, was one of the biggest black holes that has ever worn the SJU uniform.

This goes both ways. Zendon would have been a more effective player had Lopez had a jump shot. The problem with the Hamilton/Lopez tandem was that they were ill suited to playing together. Rather than complementing each one's shortcomings magnified the other's.

I thought the problem was the other 15 players on the team.  I recall when Felipe came out of the game we looked like we couldn't beat a HS team.

Quote from: RedVet on December 03, 2012, 12:15:00 AM

Quote from: jr49 on December 02, 2012, 10:10:45 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 02, 2012, 02:29:37 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2012, 02:18:04 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 02, 2012, 11:42:04 AM

Quote from: sju89tr on December 02, 2012, 10:53:27 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on December 02, 2012, 10:39:39 AM

Quote from: sju89tr on December 02, 2012, 10:13:11 AM

AS long as you win at UCLA, none of this other BS matters. If Howland can get to an Elite 8 or perhaps even Sweet 16, no one will care about Lamb or Smith,

Ultimately yes Ted but does UCLA look like a Sweet 16 team now?

Howland got the benefit of the doubt last year because of his reputation as terrific turnaround artist, his overall track record, his top class coming in and the fact that his AD Dan Guerrero didn't want another coaching search after just firing his football coach Neuheisal.  Howland is not going to get that benefit this time.

They absolutely look terrible right now.

If Howland doesn't make it to NCAA's he's cooked. 

This is a CBI team right now.

UCLA will be fine.  They have a transfer playing his handful of games and three fantastic freshmen.  It will take some time for them to gel, but lookout come February.

Possibly, but there is a lot of pressure on these kids, and we don't know which direction it will turn. As we've seen here at SJ, super hyped freshman can become overwhelmed with the attention. Now, UCLA will have to play knowing that the guy who brought them out there could be fired in 4 months. Maybe sooner, who knows?

Hey P, what super hyped freshmen have we seen become overwhelmed here at SJ? For that matter who was over hyped? I don't even recall us getting a top 20 player.

Maybe you ought to do a little research and see what you come up with.

Both Red Vet and Poison. You both right in my remarks about not getting any top 20"s. I was limiting myself to the recent history or I would not have had to go back as far FL and ZH. Barkley and Artest were top players, but certainly not the wilting kind. The little lefty that coach Hurly sent us musta been MacD all-American as a favor to him. Now, Lopez and Hamilton went out there as freshman with little coaching, and no point guard. I don't know if they fit your description as having wilted under pressure. Z had a long run in the NBA and Lopez went first round, but I don't believe we ever got to see him healthy as a pro. 
    We will get to see how Bens kids take to his coaching. I always figured the guy could coach, and certainly never pictured him getting the boot. Sure hope we get RJ. A top PG makes you feel your on your way.

Omar (12) and Glover (23) were also top 20 type recruits.  Elijah, despite being a McDAA was rated 28 in his class, Erick Barkeley 29.  (consensus rankings by RSCI).  Artest predates the RSCI era by one year but hoop scoop(yes its a rag but the only one that has long time historical data on the web that I can find easlily) had him at 15 (reggie jessie Shannon Crooks and James Felton were also top 100  in that class).

You can say what ever you like...   Felipe is a Top 5 - 10 All Time player for St. John's

Not on my list Pat
He played hard but considering the hype, he only made one more tourney than Geno, has to be considered a disappointment

 Can't blame hype on Felipe. He didn't create it. 

 2nd all time in points scored. Played 4 years and was a class act.

 No doubt he's a top 10.

Quote from: Foad on December 04, 2012, 10:40:08 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 04, 2012, 09:04:28 AM

You can say what ever you like...   Felipe is a Top 5 - 10 All Time player for St. John's.

He had no point guard to play with and Zendon Hamilton, while putting up good numbers, was one of the biggest black holes that has ever worn the SJU uniform.

This goes both ways. Zendon would have been a more effective player had Lopez had a jump shot. The problem with the Hamilton/Lopez tandem was that they were ill suited to playing together. Rather than complementing each one's shortcomings magnified the other's.

I thought the problem was the other 15 players on the team.  I recall when Felipe came out of the game we looked like we couldn't beat a HS team.

When Felipe graduated, we won 28 games the next year.

Can't blame hype on Felipe. He didn't create it. 

 2nd all time in points scored. Played 4 years and was a class act.

 No doubt he's a top 10.

If Felipe is a top ten SJ's player all time, so is DJ Kennedy.

You can say what ever you like...   Felipe is a Top 5 - 10 All Time player for St. John's

Not on my list Pat
He played hard but considering the hype, he only made one more tourney than Geno, has to be considered a disappointment

Felipe was a good player and although he did not play up to expectations he is probably among the top 15-20. There are at least a dozen ahead of him with Legends banners at Carnesecca and that does not include George Johnson (who should absolutely be up on that wall) and perhaps some others.

Some y'all got some short memories as in y'all think Felipe peaked as a frosh, didnt develop, etc.

The brother became 1st Team All BE in his senior season. A few months later, he was a first round pick. 

To say he didnt get better is just foggy memry or sometin.

Choz, thought you might possibly be right about my "foggy memry" (I do go back a ways), so I took a look at the stats for Felipe's freshman year ('94-'95) and his senior year ('97-'98). Since he played 34.5 minutes per game as a frosh and 34.6 as a senior, a comparison of numbers is fair. Here they are (with the frosh numbers first): points per game - 17.8 vs. 17.8; FG percentage - 41%/43%; FT percentage - 75%/62%; rebounds per game - 5.7 vs. 4.8; assists per game - 2.8 vs. 2.7.

Looking at these numbers, they're almost mirror images of each other. So I think that my recollection of Felipe's play not noticeably improving over his four-year stint at St. John's (as well of my recollections of how he played the game) is very accurate. For the record, I am not a Felipe "knocker"; I always loved the kid, but I was frustrated that the inconsistencies (as well as well as the occasional brilliance) he showed in his freshman year were still on display in his senior year. My point being: if he had played for a coaching staff like Lavin & Co. instead of Mahoney & Co., I believe he would have elevated his game each year and there wouldn't be any debate over his rightful place in the annals of St. John's basketball.

See this is why stats lie sometimes. As far as impact on the program as a player during my time as a fan I would put the likes of Russell, Glass, Shelton Jones, Bootsy, Hatten, Postell, Barkley and Hardy before Lopez. That is eight right there before you even get into the heavyweights. Felipe probably falls into 15-20 range for me personally.

See this is why stats lie sometimes. As far as impact on the program as a player during my time as a fan I would put the likes of Russell, Glass, Shelton Jones, Bootsy, Hatten, Postell, Barkley and Hardy before Lopez. That is eight right there before you even get into the heavyweights. Felipe probably falls into 15-20 range for me personally.

Williams, Harvey, Wennington, Davis & Johnson were all better than him too.

Where does Felipe Lopez fit in on a list of the best high school players ever in NYC? Top 5, 10, 25, 100?

See this is why stats lie sometimes. As far as impact on the program as a player during my time as a fan I would put the likes of Russell, Glass, Shelton Jones, Bootsy, Hatten, Postell, Barkley and Hardy before Lopez. That is eight right there before you even get into the heavyweights. Felipe probably falls into 15-20 range for me personally.

Williams, Harvey, Wennington, Davis & Johnson were all better than him too.

Def Harvey. Maybe Williams, never saw Davis and Johnson but I would put Lopez over Wennington.
Obviously, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy, Artest in addition to the others I mentioned.

See this is why stats lie sometimes. As far as impact on the program as a player during my time as a fan I would put the likes of Russell, Glass, Shelton Jones, Bootsy, Hatten, Postell, Barkley and Hardy before Lopez. That is eight right there before you even get into the heavyweights. Felipe probably falls into 15-20 range for me personally.

Williams, Harvey, Wennington, Davis & Johnson were all better than him too.

Def Harvey. Maybe Williams, never saw Davis and Johnson but I would put Lopez over Wennington.
Obviously, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy, Artest in addition to the others I mentioned.

They don't call you "Killer" if you're not an animal on the court. Mel Davis was an animal.

Quote from: we are sju on December 05, 2012, 08:40:27 AM

See this is why stats lie sometimes. As far as impact on the program as a player during my time as a fan I would put the likes of Russell, Glass, Shelton Jones, Bootsy, Hatten, Postell, Barkley and Hardy before Lopez. That is eight right there before you even get into the heavyweights. Felipe probably falls into 15-20 range for me personally.

Williams, Harvey, Wennington, Davis & Johnson were all better than him too.

Def Harvey. Maybe Williams, never saw Davis and Johnson but I would put Lopez over Wennington.
Obviously, Mullin, Berry, Jackson, Sealy, Artest in addition to the others I mentioned.

They don't call you "Killer" if you're not an animal on the court. Mel Davis was an animal.

 What does that make Jayson Williams then?

Felipe > Willie Glass every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Felipe > Willie Glass every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

+1`